Mixed responses to 21-point rally scoring system

**seven** · 01-24-2006, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by Loh

Hope you'll give the experiment reasonable time so that coaches and officials concerned will be able to comment on it after a fair trial.

Obviously we can wait a reasonable time to give it a "fair" trial. But :

- We can't wait too long as it will be too late otherwise
- This trial isn't particularly "fair", why are we testing this system and not another one? No one was consulted for it...
- The trial will not give us answers to how the game would evoluate over the years (type of players, game style, injuries...)
- It won't give us any answers about TV coverage either, as TV coverage is already progressing without the new scoring
- Many things can already be said with a simple theoretical "mathematical" analysis of the scoring system...

If we want to "save" our favourite sport, we need to start getting organized now!

**serviceover** · 01-24-2006, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by seven

If we want to "save" our favourite sport, we need to start getting organized now!

I agree, but knocking the 3 x 21 before its really been tested and getting players feedback may not be the right way to do it.

!! This is a general statement and not aimed at any one person. !!

Lets give it a chance and see what happens.

**seven** · 01-24-2006, 07:09 AM

So, here I start with the "bad" part

1/ more TV friendly because...
* more predictable match lengths
* shorter matches
* score evolution is easier to understand
* current game is old fashioned (???) -> Punch Gunalan said it...

2/ more interesting because...
* faster pace
* more open game (more upsets)
* higher concentration required (?)

3/ less injuries because ...
* shorter matches (read argumentation about high smash speed causing more injuries according to Punch Gunalan...)

4/ players like it! (Punch Gunalan said so...)

**seven** · 01-24-2006, 07:10 AM

I must admit I find Punch Gunalan's arguments particularly silly, the last one even being a lie... but hey, we need to list them in order to explain why they are silly!

**seven** · 01-24-2006, 07:12 AM

I just wrote this list quite quickly and probably forgot quite a few arguments.

If you think of arguments (in favour of new scoring) that I have forgotten, post them here!

**seven** · 01-24-2006, 07:19 AM

By the way, if anyone has time to initiate the list of arguments against the new scoring, feel free to do so as I don't have time to do it right now...

**twobeer** · 01-24-2006, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by seven

By the way, if anyone has time to initiate the list of arguments against the new scoring, feel free to do so as I don't have time to do it right now...

I'll give it a start:

* Increased length of uneven matches (requires 21 instead of 15 points to win)
* Decreased length of even (exciting) matches (the rally scoring limits the length).
*Introduceses a bigger element of chance/luck, as the game is shortened.
* less chance of spectacular comebacks, as its proportionally easier to get points while having the advantage of receiveing the serve.
* Makes the game less physical demanding (sissifying the sport).
* Makes double serving rules more complex.
* May decrease TV air time (faster games = less time shown).
* Adds confusion to the public on badminton rules and scoring.
* More "fair" (less upsets) (greater chance of the best badminton player actually winning the game)
* Shorter games with more breaks have already been tried, and rejected (5x7).
* Testing, changing & voting takes, time, resources, money, energy that could be better used to market badminton and get more TV air time.

**seven** · 01-25-2006, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by twobeer

I'll give it a start:

* Increased length of uneven matches (requires 21 instead of 15 points to win)
* Decreased length of even (exciting) matches (the rally scoring limits the length).
*Introduceses a bigger element of chance/luck, as the game is shortened.
* less chance of spectacular comebacks, as its proportionally easier to get points while having the advantage of receiveing the serve.
* Makes the game less physical demanding (sissifying the sport).
* Makes double serving rules more complex.
* May decrease TV air time (faster games = less time shown).
* Adds confusion to the public on badminton rules and scoring.
* More "fair" (less upsets) (greater chance of the best badminton player actually winning the game)
* Shorter games with more breaks have already been tried, and rejected (5x7).
* Testing, changing & voting takes, time, resources, money, energy that could be better used to market badminton and get more TV air time.

Tried to reorganize them and add new ones ...

New scoring format is bad because :

1/ it takes excitement out of the game :
* uneven (uninteresting) matches are made longer
* matches are shorter overall (and closest matches are only half as long as they used to be)
* come-backs are made almost impossible (specially in doubles as receiving the serve is an advantage)
* end of games are much less exciting (too fast, very little chance of come-back...)

2/ it changes radically the sport
* the game is much less physical demanding (stamina and mental strength are made secondary)
* pace and power becomes too important => variety of shots + creativity will tend to disappear (same problem as 5x7)
* introduceses a bigger element of chance/luck, as the game is shortened.

3/ bad for TV coverage
* scoring changes have already showed their inefficiency to increase TV coverage in other sports (volley-ball, table tennis etc...)
* constant scoring changes (5x9, 5x7, 3x11 ...) are destroying badminton's credibility, they add confusion to the public on badminton rules and scoring
* makes double serving rules more complex.

4/ Bad for players
* more risks of injuries with development of muscular power game (increasing training workloads etc)
* introduceses a bigger element of chance/luck, as the game is shortened. (less fair results in the end)

5/ Players and fans don't like it
* BF poll gave 87.22% against this scoring system (out of 313 answers from fans)
* many major pro players are standing against it (Tony Gunawan, Peter Gade ...)
* fans won't go to stadiums and pay to see lightning short matches
(finding new fans is good but IBF must start by thinking of its already existing fans in order to have some crowd during matches)

6/ Time, money, resources and energy should be used for more urgent matters
* the 3x15 system has proven fine for a while and there is no urgency to change it
* GP circuit needs reforming(too many equivalent level tournaments leading to China Masters disasterous entries last year for example)
* world ranking points need readjusting to give more importance to tournament winners and less points to early round losers
* IBF needs to improve its marketing to sell badminton current format (which already has attracted millions of fans within the world) to TVs
* adopting the new scoring means risking dividing even more asian and european badminton federations, when badminton needs unified efforts for its development rather than inner-quarrels...

**seven** · 01-25-2006, 04:05 AM

Feel free to give ideas to complete (or reorganize) both lists.

Kwun, just thought of something : we could write an article (on why the new scoring is bad) and use it as a base for an online petition.

If we can get Tony Gunawan, Peter Gade and other famous badminton personalities to sign the petition, plus hundreds of fans behind them, it could probably have a good impact!

(I feel in an optimistic mood today

)

**Loopy** · 01-25-2006, 06:38 AM

I'm voting for Seven as the new IBF president.
That is, french people are politician by nature, I just hope he doesn't screw us in the back like they all do.

**seven** · 01-25-2006, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Loopy

I'm voting for Seven as the new IBF president.

Hehe, thanks for your vote!

Originally Posted by Loopy

That is, french people are politician by nature, I just hope he doesn't screw us in the back like they all do.

Are they?

Well, I admit I am interested in politics (not politicians), both in sport and ... "real life"

but I agree politicians are usually highly corrupted and big liars!

IBF makes no exception unfortunately...

**Loh** · 02-13-2006, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by Loh

Excerpts from reports dated Jan 24, 2006:

by Cubby Leong of Singapore's "Today":

Speaking to Today last September, IBF deputy president Punch Gunalan claimed he was in favour of a 21-point system as he wanted the sport to be more television friendly. When contacted yesterday, Gunalan said the 21-point system is not a shoo-in. It will be tested out in various tournaments over the next four months, including at the Commonwealth Games (March 15-26). It is in the experimental phase and everyone is keen to see how it pans out. IBF will meet in Tokyo in May to deliberate over what they've seen over the 4 months. The final decision will be made solely with the idea of bringing the game forward.

SBA technical director Zheng Qingjin is currently working with his (Singapore) players to get everyone adjusted to the new scoring format. He said the IBF came up with the decision purely for commercial reasons and he is very supportive of the move. He thinks it's a possible way to reinvent the game.

Zheng further commented that fitness will no longer he held in as high regard as before because match time has shrunk. Speed and mental strength will also take on a new meaning because everything happens so quickly. And the serve is more important than ever before because if you foul, you immediately lose a point.

Kendrick Lee, 21, Singapore's current No.1 player says he personally thinks his game is more suited to the 15-point system. There are good and bad points to the 21-point system. Everything will happen so quickly, advantages will be lost in a flash and points will be won in a flash.

by Rajes Paul of Malaysia's "The Star":

Chief coach Yap Kim Hock told his players to look ahead to the new challenges under the new scoring format. Now, the focus should be on adapting to the new system. There will be changes to our training programmes to adapt to the change. The pace of the game will be faster. The players must be psychologically stronger to excel under this new format which would put everyone (every country including China) on en equal footing. For a start, it will be a more open game.

On Feb 11, the Star reported Mohd Hafiz Hashim's comments on the new scoring system:

Hafiz is the only men's singles player in the Malaysian team to have played under the new scoring format - at the World Cup in Yiyang,China.

Despite his dislike for the new format, he is determined to master it.

"For me, the new format has robbed the art of badminton. Anyway, the format is good for new players and those with an attacking style of play. I will be out to adjust to it."

**taneepak** · 02-13-2006, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Loh

On Feb 11, the Star reported Mohd Hafiz Hashim's comments on the new scoring system:

Hafiz is the only men's singles player in the Malaysian team to have played under the new scoring format - at the World Cup in Yiyang,China.

Despite his dislike for the new format, he is determined to master it.

"For me, the new format has robbed the art of badminton. Anyway, the format is good for new players and those with an attacking style of play. I will be out to adjust to it."

Isn't Hafiz an attacking style player? He is very good with high shots but not so good with low shots.

**Loh** · 02-14-2006, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

Isn't Hafiz an attacking style player? He is very good with high shots but not so good with low shots.

Maybe he's taken on the mould of Misbun lately.

Well actually I consider Hafiz good with overheads as he is quite tall, including his smash. But he appears lazy and slow moving. But on his good day, he can surprise as he did when he unexpectedly claimed the AE crown not too long ago.

**twobeer** · 02-14-2006, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

Isn't Hafiz an attacking style player? He is very good with high shots but not so good with low shots.

Actually i think its a missconcepton that 21 rally scoring would be beneficial for attacking style players... with rally scoring.. playing it "safe" would probably be of more importance, game-tactic-wise than going for the lines and trying to hit winners... Most likely the most boring players (to watch) have the most to gain from rally scoring!!!

/T

**seven** · 02-14-2006, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

Isn't Hafiz an attacking style player? He is very good with high shots but not so good with low shots.

More of a counter-attacking player isn't he?

**White_Gemini91** · 04-26-2006, 04:40 PM

If you are talking about some people that is.. the 'little' umpires still get confused for umpiring doubles and mix doubles games... as you know that the umpire scores as well right? the linesman also does the scoring so i think there is a pressure on if the scores were different, and dont know which one is the right one.. because people STILL get mixed up about how they score with the new and old scoring system, being "mixed" together and cause confusion.