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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibe_K
    I find the point counting is rather straight forward but to keep track of which side to stand is a nightmare. Even with 15 points system I often get confused after a long rally which side I should stand. But with 15 points system, its easy to figure out as long as you remember which side of the court you start with (even or odd). With 21 points system, there is no clue to figure out once you forget, anyone knows what the trick is ?
    There is no trick. if you are serving then you stand where you would stand for singles on the old 15 point system, regardless of where you stood last time your served. how much simpler can it be?

    Coops

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    Quote Originally Posted by coops241180
    There is no trick. if you are serving then you stand where you would stand for singles on the old 15 point system, regardless of where you stood last time your served. how much simpler can it be?

    Coops
    I think you misunderstood what I mean. Of course figuring out which side to serve is simple enough following the format for singles (even or even side). If every player on the court tracks the score correctly but forget who was serving last time and where a player stood last time, how do you sort out the answer ? In the old 15 points system, we ran into this confusion on regular basis (almost every game) and we always ask "do you remember who started the first serve?" and you will get a correct answer 10 out of 10 times. To me, remembering who started the "first serve" is easier than remembering who made the last serve. vbmenu_register("postmenu_321673", true);

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddieO
    Hello, I did not say max point was 29, at 29-29 the first team to 30 wins!
    Quote:

    "First team to 21, but if score is 20-20 then game goes to 29! If 28-28 then first team to 29 wins"

    Yes you did not say max point was 29, but in your above example you gave the impression that it was. Your second sentence confirms when you said at "28-28, the first team to 29 wins", which is incorrect. Both your sentences were misleading, I'm afraid!

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by coops241180
    if you served last time then it is certain that it is your partners serve. since you know the score that means you know where the server should stand.
    Coops
    Thank You. I did a quick simulation, and yes, true that regardless of the score, if you already served before last change of service then for the next your team have to serve, then it must be your partner to serve, whether it's from left or right is depending on the score. Or anybody can correct me if it's not true?

    So, just to recap, in the new scoring system, to determine where you should stand, the first important key is who made the last serve in your team (subsequently look at the score, etc), and this is not only true for serving but also receiving, is that correct?

    I agree with chibe_K that remembering who started the "first serve" is easier than remembering who made the last serve. This is true especially after long rally

    However, my objective is just to make it clear how to keep track the position in the middle of the game, where should I stand (when my team serving or receiving), who should serve, etc. Thanks all, seems I almost clear my doubts about this.

    As I am only a social player, and I am quite sure that I will still be using 3x15 scoring whenever I play, like when I play table tennis, always use 3X21 instead of 7X11.

  5. #22
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    I tried the new 21 points for the first time yesterday. My conclusion is that both are fun but I reckon 21 points format is not as tiring as the 15 points format.

    However, contrary to coops241180 that if you served last time, then it is certain that it is your partners serve. Maybe we did something wrong cause i remember that i did complain that my partner was serving most of the time.

    This leads to my next question, do we switch sides when we won a point even though we are not serving? ie (we are team B), score at love all, team A is serving but lost, so the score now is team A=0 and team B=1, do players from team B switch sides before serving? We did not.
    Last edited by Kamen; 12-21-2005 at 08:29 PM.

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamen
    This lead to my next question, do we switch sides when we won a point even though we are not serving? ie (we are team B), score at love all, team A is serving but lost, so the score now is team A=0 and team B=1, do players from team B switch sides before serving? We did not.
    You won point then you have to serve, regardless who served the last, your team or opponent.

    you switch only when your team score more than 1 point consecutively, other than that you have to stay at your position.

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    Just a quick question, before the 15x3 scoring system what did they have?
    Has it always been 15x3? It's not really badminton anymore if they change the scoring system is it... I mean, If you changed the scoring system rules of football(soccer) then it wouldn't really be football anymore would it? It'll just be some ghey game some guy made up...

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamen

    This leads to my next question, do we switch sides when we won a point even though we are not serving? ie (we are team B), score at love all, team A is serving but lost, so the score now is team A=0 and team B=1, do players from team B switch sides before serving? We did not.
    No, you do not switch sides with your partner if you win a rally point from your opponents' serve. You only switch sides after winning a rally point from your own serve. The rule : switch only when you win a point from your own serve.
    This is simple to remember. If you win a point when serving, obviously you have to serve again. Surely you cannot serve from the same side as your last winning serve, so you switch side to serve. Remember, switching sides in doubles remain exactly the same just like the old system.

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamen
    I tried the new 21 points for the first time yesterday. My conclusion is that both are fun but I reckon 21 points format is not as tiring as the 15 points format.

    However, contrary to coops241180 that if you served last time, then it is certain that it is your partners serve. Maybe we did something wrong cause i remember that i did complain that my partner is serving most of the time.

    This leads to my next question, do we switch sides when we won a point even though we are not serving? ie (we are team B), score at love all, team A is serving but lost, so the score now is team A=0 and team B=1, do players from team B switch sides before serving? We did not.
    No, you don't switch sides. Your Team B did it correctly. You only switch sides, ie from right court to left court, when you win a point, as in singles. When your Team loses the point, the partners remain where they are.

    You may have made a mistake in your position with your partner when you find yourself serving again after you lost a point and win it back subsequently. I think Coops' theory should be correct.

    One of the aims of the 3x21 points system is to shorten the average game, not only to allow time for TV commercials, but also for the following reasons, IMO:

    1. Shorter games mean players should feel less tiring and this should enable them to perform better in the next round.

    2. As a result, less injuries to players and this is very important as any injury will cost the professional player money, the longer it takes to recover, the costlier it will be for him. He has no chance to win a major title and prize-money that goes with it. His world ranking will drop as in the case of Singapore's Ronald Susilo (around 50) now.

    3. As the duration of a match is more certain, the scheduling of matches becomes easier. In the past, the 3x15 points system gave some tournaments a lot of headache because many matches ran into the rubber game and pre-scheduled matches had to be delayed.

    4. Spectators, hopefully, will not have to sit past midnight to see everything. Those without their own transport will be inconvenienced as public transport may not be available or cost twice as much.

    5. For the first time, both men and women competitors will adopt the same scoring system. No more discrimination that women play less points because they are weaker.

    6. Frankly, newcomers to badminton and TV viewers will find it easier to follow the new scoring system. Points are won on every rally and there is no 'second server'. This will then encourage them to stay longer as they can understand what is going on.

    7. And as I have suggested in another related post, we may well expect a higher standard of badminton as the new system really penalizes shoddy badminton.

    8. But more important to the IBF is that, hopefully, a tremendous amount of TV income can be generated and this can help the IBF to expand the badminton game to every corner of the earth, raise the awareness and standards of this beautiful feathered game, set up many more training centres around the world, improve the quality of management of the worldwide badminton associations, provide more advanced courses for officials and coaches, etc, etc. See what world soccer has done through FIFA?

    So, don't you think we should give the new system a try?

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vienly
    Just a quick question, before the 15x3 scoring system what did they have?
    Has it always been 15x3? It's not really badminton anymore if they change the scoring system is it... I mean, If you changed the scoring system rules of football(soccer) then it wouldn't really be football anymore would it? It'll just be some ghey game some guy made up...
    I believe the 3x 5 scoring system has been in place probably from the first Thomas Cup period. However many club and county matches were also using the 1x21 point system (change ends at 11) in the interest of time.
    Almost all games have had rules changes, in tennis, soccer, rugby, table tennis, badminton, etc.
    Remember rules are set by man to govern the game. What is set by man can be changed by man. Despite what they say, almost all rules changes are to bring in more money. After all the popularity of the game is money-driven. If the governing council officials of any sporting organization ignores this the game will die. The biggest mistake anyone can make is to appoint an ex-super star to be a sporting organization's chairperson because he or she believes that money grows on trees everywhere.

  11. #28
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    Coops, Please don't say its soo simple! It is a new way of scoring for the 3rd time! Now the IBF has the right and will always tinker with our sport. I don't agree with the scoring changes, I prefer best 2 out of 3 to 15. Now you may seem to be a whiz at the new scoring game, but for some of us, Me included it will take many game to undo 20 some years of play! I personally will never play in IBF sanctioned event, nor will you or most of members here! The original question of the thread was asked how to keep track of score. Now we all have our ways, some good some bad? I belive that calling out the score loudly and keeping track of whats going on in the match is the best way to go! The IBF Pro Players will not have this problem, they have Referee's. I say play the game the way you want and try the new scoring if you want. Enjoy the game and keep fit! Peace, going to play right now!

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddieO
    Coops, Please don't say its soo simple! It is a new way of scoring for the 3rd time! Now the IBF has the right and will always tinker with our sport. I don't agree with the scoring changes, I prefer best 2 out of 3 to 15. Now you may seem to be a whiz at the new scoring game, but for some of us, Me included it will take many game to undo 20 some years of play! I personally will never play in IBF sanctioned event, nor will you or most of members here! The original question of the thread was asked how to keep track of score. Now we all have our ways, some good some bad? I belive that calling out the score loudly and keeping track of whats going on in the match is the best way to go! The IBF Pro Players will not have this problem, they have Referee's. I say play the game the way you want and try the new scoring if you want. Enjoy the game and keep fit! Peace, going to play right now!
    I have played badminton for close to 50 years under the old 3x15 scoring system. I have now played only 7 days using the new system. I am completely at home with the new system now and I can tell you that it is simpler than the old system. I am sure you are much younger than me, so adapting to the new system should be a breeze for you. No, you don't need referees to keep track of the new system. All you need to do is to have 10 games.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    No, you don't switch sides. Your Team B did it correctly. You only switch sides, ie from right court to left court, when you win a point, as in singles. When your Team loses the point, the partners remain where they are.

    You may have made a mistake in your position with your partner when you find yourself serving again after you lost a point and win it back subsequently. I think Coops' theory should be correct.

    One of the aims of the 3x21 points system is to shorten the average game, not only to allow time for TV commercials, but also for the following reasons, IMO:

    1. Shorter games mean players should feel less tiring and this should enable them to perform better in the next round.

    2. As a result, less injuries to players and this is very important as any injury will cost the professional player money, the longer it takes to recover, the costlier it will be for him. He has no chance to win a major title and prize-money that goes with it. His world ranking will drop as in the case of Singapore's Ronald Susilo (around 50) now.

    3. As the duration of a match is more certain, the scheduling of matches becomes easier. In the past, the 3x15 points system gave some tournaments a lot of headache because many matches ran into the rubber game and pre-scheduled matches had to be delayed.

    4. Spectators, hopefully, will not have to sit past midnight to see everything. Those without their own transport will be inconvenienced as public transport may not be available or cost twice as much.

    5. For the first time, both men and women competitors will adopt the same scoring system. No more discrimination that women play less points because they are weaker.

    6. Frankly, newcomers to badminton and TV viewers will find it easier to follow the new scoring system. Points are won on every rally and there is no 'second server'. This will then encourage them to stay longer as they can understand what is going on.

    7. And as I have suggested in another related post, we may well expect a higher standard of badminton as the new system really penalizes shoddy badminton.

    8. But more important to the IBF is that, hopefully, a tremendous amount of TV income can be generated and this can help the IBF to expand the badminton game to every corner of the earth, raise the awareness and standards of this beautiful feathered game, set up many more training centres around the world, improve the quality of management of the worldwide badminton associations, provide more advanced courses for officials and coaches, etc, etc. See what world soccer has done through FIFA?

    So, don't you think we should give the new system a try?
    Loh,you are very convincing in your reasons given for the new scoring format.I am very impressed indeed.IBF couldn't find a better person to let all badminton players to give the new scoring format a try first before jumping to conclusions.Anyway any changes for the good of badminton should be welcomed.

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    Ok, what i did was correct then, we only switched sides when we won from our serve.

    I will try it out again, i am pretty sure that my partner served twice and thrice consecutively yesterday.

    One thing i like about this format is that they will never be a "dead lock" in scores, say 14-11. Scores change all the time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamen
    Ok, what i did was correct then, we only switched sides when we won from our serve.

    I will try it out again, i am pretty sure that my partner served twice and thrice consecutively yesterday.

    One thing i like about this format is that they will never be a "dead lock" in scores, say 14-11. Scores change all the time!
    yeah - the only thing i can think of is that if you have quite an involved rally that results in you and your partner rotating quite a bit it becomes quite a challenge to remember which side you were stood on at the start of the rally, yuo sort of have to hope that our opponent remembers who he served to last time. but if the rally was that involved there is a fair chance that they wil have forgotten too.

    but you should always end up taking it in turns serving, if somehow ur partner ends up serving more than once in a row either the score, or where your stood is wrong..

    Hope this helps

    Coops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamen
    I tried the new 21 points for the first time yesterday. My conclusion is that both are fun but I reckon 21 points format is not as tiring as the 15 points format.

    However, contrary to coops241180 that if you served last time, then it is certain that it is your partners serve. Maybe we did something wrong cause i remember that i did complain that my partner was serving most of the time.

    This leads to my next question, do we switch sides when we won a point even though we are not serving? ie (we are team B), score at love all, team A is serving but lost, so the score now is team A=0 and team B=1, do players from team B switch sides before serving? We did not.
    I think the issue is you and your partner begun to randomly pick a side and stand and then based on the score, decided who to serve. I anticipate this will happen to me and my partner a lot...as even with the 15 points system, we got confused after a long rally. I want to make myself clear I am not saying this "issue" is created by the new 21-points system, it happens to the old 15 points system too. However, I feel that the 21-points system makes it worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    No, you don't switch sides. Your Team B did it correctly. You only switch sides, ie from right court to left court, when you win a point, as in singles. When your Team loses the point, the partners remain where they are.


    3. As the duration of a match is more certain, the scheduling of matches becomes easier. In the past, the 3x15 points system gave some tournaments a lot of headache because many matches ran into the rubber game and pre-scheduled matches had to be delayed.
    This reason is good enough for me to give the 21-points system a try. I want to share with you what I experienced at my club last week. It was weekday and for some reason, the club was very crowded...kind of unusual. There was a long line on each court. On my court, two adults C players just started to play against two kids (age 7 and 10). Its obviously to everyone at that time that the C players could end the game in 10 minutes. However, the C players realized the line was long and they did not want to finish the game quickly. Whenever the kids were serving, the C players would smash to get the serves back. When it came to the C players to serve, they would give the shots away on purpose. Guess how long it took to end the game ??? More than 60 mins !!! The point I am making is not about C players or kids.....the point here is anyone can abuse the 15-points system by delaying the game on purpose. I hope this can be eliminated in the new 21-points system.

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