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  1. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    ...If anyone would know, it would be Eepak or Ants.
    I have a feeling his comments were not as benign. Or have I got it wrong?

  2. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWB001
    No, you misunderstand. Their tested speed was fine and, say, a clear from the baseline or a drop shot was as expected. However, when smashed they seemed to have completely different characteristics.
    I cannot really comment as I don't know what plastics you tested.. The plastics that I played with a year ago were Yonex's Mavis 500 and Mavis 370 Green tube cover. They were nowhere near as good as feathers, but they were still defendable.
    Put it this way, if feathers are available, I will of course use feathers, every time. But if feathers are not available, due to reasons from short supply to quarantine of all feathers, then I will have to adjust to plastics. I find the challenge of adapting to something new rewarding enough to fill in the loss of missing my beloved feathers. This is live and you have to adapt to changing time. And time waits for no man.

  3. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWB001
    I didn't mean that it IS the number one sport in those countries, merely that it might be realistic for it to become that. What are the Chinese, Malaysian and Indonesian number one sports, by the way?
    In Malaysia, it is football, believe it or not. Almost everyone has played football before. And the English Premier League is very big here. Badminton may come second or third, but I'll take that.

    In China, I am not so sure, but I'll wager it's football as well. Same goes for Indonesia.

  4. #55
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    I have a feeling his comments were not as benign. Or have I got it wrong?
    You are wrong.

    You and Ants usually have the inside scoop on equipment and IBF. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

  5. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot

    You and Ants usually have the inside scoop on equipment and IBF. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    This may be true with Ants but there is not a grain of truth about me on this. I have seen Punch play live many a times (he was a bit of an ungainly player but would give Rudy Hartono lots of trouble with his early-take at the net) but I have never talked to him even once.

  6. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWB001
    I have never come across a tournament at any level in the UK that uses plastic shuttles. Only "backyard" players use plastics, even for practice. Only a tiny, tiny minority of competitive players would even think about using them. The only exception is in schools. But schools don't really act as any kind of training ground in the UK - the clubs do. The standard of school badminton is very low indeed.

    In my area all the adult clubs and all the junior clubs use feathers except for one that is run on a shoestring budget - and hated by all the others.

    That club's players never make county squads. I suspect that is partly because they learn a game strategy to cope with the problems of plastics that means inevitable defeat against the better players.
    Well, as a "backyard" player (like nearly all of the clubs and leagues in my area), I must say that it is this kind of snobbery that drives players away from the sport

    But, hey, at least I can return smashes when playing with plastics

  7. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_e_thompson
    Well, as a "backyard" player (like nearly all of the clubs and leagues in my area), I must say that it is this kind of snobbery that drives players away from the sport

    But, hey, at least I can return smashes when playing with plastics
    Don't be silly. Using feathers is not snobbery. It is simply a sensible preference which is followed by all good players.

    The word "backyard" is used to mean non-competitive or informal play, usually among close friends or family. It is akin to kick-about football with clothes for goalposts or one-on-one basketball.

    By definition clubs and leagues are not "backyard" badminton. They are formally organised and competitive. You are not a backyard plyer if you play in a club or league.

  8. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEND.
    mmm.

    This could save the game. It helps cut the cost of the game.. but if the shuttles are of respectable quality... then... should we be angry at this change?

    Recommend me a plastic shuttle that is equivalent to feather and I will switch right away. Save tons of money. But alas, there is none

  9. #60
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    To clarify for some people here, really hard smashes from players of a good standard of badminton play will move really fast with a feather bird but decelerate very quickly as the feathers create wind resistance which causes this to happen.

    With (most) nylon birds hit very powerfully they should do the same, however the nylon (plastic) actually folds and the bird loses a large amount of this wind resistance and so the bird is still moving much closer to the speed it was originally hit at even when it reaches the other side of the court, making a smash essentially "unreturnable" as stated earlier.

    For recreational players who use nylon birds regularly this does not pose a real problem as they do not train/strengh train regularly enough to hit the bird at as great a speed. I've played at a few dozen recreational clubs as well as several competitive clubs so I know totally what the issue is here with using nylon shuttles at a higher level!

    Personally I'd really like to see a lot more development done on synthetic shuttles. I think the problem with existing ones is that they've been developed too much for the durability aspect. They cost 3 times as much as a feather (at least in Canada) but last at least 6 times as long. If we made them only AS durable as a feather but focused much more on making them have the same characteristics I think that would be a better approach. Feather birds have risen in price notably in the past few years (by about 30% where I am). Plastics have the ability to be mechanically mass produced while feathers are still hand made. This means though plastics are initially expensive they have potential to get a lot cheaper, while feathers can only really go up in price in coming years (with oil price increases-transportation costs from China, cost of labour increases in China, etc).

    In the meantime, I'll stick with feather thanks!

  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWB001
    Don't be silly. Using feathers is not snobbery. It is simply a sensible preference which is followed by all good players.

    The word "backyard" is used to mean non-competitive or informal play, usually among close friends or family. It is akin to kick-about football with clothes for goalposts or one-on-one basketball.

    By definition clubs and leagues are not "backyard" badminton. They are formally organised and competitive. You are not a backyard plyer if you play in a club or league.
    I wasn't being silly. Hating a club because they don't use feathers sounds like snobbery to me. Perhaps if you'd said that no-one liked playing them that might have been better (if that's what you meant).

    I'm well aware what "backyard" means (duh). So clubs and leagues are not "backyard" badminton, but only "backyard" players use plastic. If you could help me figure out where clubs who use plastic fit into your scheme of things that'd be grand. Either that, or agree that there are actually clubs with decent players that use plastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j_e_thompson
    So clubs and leagues are not "backyard" badminton, but only "backyard" players use plastic. If you could help me figure out where clubs who use plastic fit into your scheme of things that'd be grand. Either that, or agree that there are actually clubs with decent players that use plastic.
    In the whole of Surrey I'm not aware of ANY competitive adult clubs that use plastics, and only one junior club. They are illegal in the district adult leagues and they are never used for practice sessions. County matches and above use exclusively feathers.

    Are you telling me that in Hertfordhire the competitve clubs and leagues use plastics?

    Quote Originally Posted by j_e_thompson
    Perhaps if you'd said that no-one liked playing them that might have been better
    You are quite right. That is what I meant and should have said.

  12. #63
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    This may be true with Ants but there is not a grain of truth about me on this. I have seen Punch play live many a times (he was a bit of an ungainly player but would give Rudy Hartono lots of trouble with his early-take at the net) but I have never talked to him even once.
    Sorry, a misunderstanding. I was saying in general, I meant if Ants and Eepak doesn't know, no one knows.

  13. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_e_thompson
    I wasn't being silly. Hating a club because they don't use feathers sounds like snobbery to me. Perhaps if you'd said that no-one liked playing them that might have been better (if that's what you meant).

    I'm well aware what "backyard" means (duh). So clubs and leagues are not "backyard" badminton, but only "backyard" players use plastic. If you could help me figure out where clubs who use plastic fit into your scheme of things that'd be grand. Either that, or agree that there are actually clubs with decent players that use plastic.

    well put j. e. t.

    I play both plastic and feather and find feather easier to play, plastic required more control skill. Yes, i do find some (not all) players see plastic players as subpar or requiring less skills. So wrong. Plastic haters find they cant control the plastic shuttles as easy as feather. That is why they dislike plastic shuttles.

    Yes, it's true that plastic go faster on smashes from a strong player. However, it also mean it goes out easier so one just cant just smash and drive blindly. If i hit a smash return cross (diagonally) court, the smasher has less time to retrieve the plastic shuttle because it will land the court faster where as with feather, i have an 'lot of time' to run to the other corner to get the smash return. Also, a good player is also a good defender. So those people say u can smash your way to win in plastic game is not all correct.

    With a plastic, on hard rear court smashes, if i'm able to do a soft net return, the smasher will find it harder to return because the plastic will deflect and fall faster.

    backhand is a lotter harder using plastic. If u can BH a plastic, BH shot on the feather is a piece of cake.

    In many occasion, i see beginners (C and lower) see themselves as better players than they really are because they are 'playing' feathers. To me, it makes no difference performance wise. Durabilty wise, feathers dont last at all with beginners.

    I'm not saying feather performance isnt better. Until one get the proper footwork and strokes right, playing plastic or feather is not much different. For A players, feather is recommended. B can be either. C or lower makes no different but u have to sweep the court more often (feather droplings )

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    Quote Originally Posted by j_e_thompson
    I wasn't being silly. Hating a club because they don't use feathers sounds like snobbery to me. Perhaps if you'd said that no-one liked playing them that might have been better (if that's what you meant).

    I'm well aware what "backyard" means (duh). So clubs and leagues are not "backyard" badminton, but only "backyard" players use plastic. If you could help me figure out where clubs who use plastic fit into your scheme of things that'd be grand. Either that, or agree that there are actually clubs with decent players that use plastic.
    well put j. e. t.

    I play both plastic and feather and find feather easier to play, plastic required more control skill. Yes, i do find some (not all) players see plastic players as subpar or requiring less skills. So wrong. Plastic haters find they cant control the plastic shuttles as easy as feather. That is why they dislike plastic shuttles.

    Yes, it's true that plastic go faster on smashes from a strong player. However, it also mean it goes out easier so one just cant just smash and drive blindly. If i hit a smash return cross (diagonally) court, the smasher has less time to retrieve the plastic shuttle because it will land the court faster where as with feather, i have an 'lot of time' to run to the other corner to get the smash return. Also, a good player is also a good defender. So those people say u can smash your way to win in plastic game is not all correct.

    With a plastic, on hard rear court smashes, if i'm able to do a soft net return, the smasher will find it harder to return because the plastic will deflect and fall faster.

    backhand is a lotter harder using plastic. If u can BH a plastic, BH shot on the feather is a piece of cake.

    In many occasion, i see beginners (C and lower) see themselves as better players than they really are because they are 'playing' feathers. To me, it makes no difference performance wise. Durabilty wise, feathers dont last at all with beginners.

    I'm not saying feather performance isnt better. Until one get the proper footwork and strokes right, playing plastic or feather is not much different. For 'A' players, feather is recommended. 'B' can be either. C or lower makes no different but u have to sweep the court more often when using feather shuttles (feather droplings )

  15. #66
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    I'm not an expert on this field either. Maybe its cheaper to use plastic shuttles? Prevent Bird flu? Or some countries health authority want to prevent against feathers from China going to their country or even some pll who want to come out with crazy ideas of see how plastics would perform on international level. In terms of why they want to use plastic shuttles on international event , that i do not know yet. But personally i don't like the idea of playing with plastic shuttles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    I play both plastic and feather and find feather easier to play, plastic required more control skill.
    Usually people who plays mostly plastic have extremely hard with net-play-feel and controlling a feather shuttle. If people used to plastic would be more "skillfull" in these areas adjusting to feathers would be a piece of cake.. This is not my experience..

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    Yes, i do find some (not all) players see plastic players as subpar or requiring less skills. So wrong. Plastic haters find they cant control the plastic shuttles as easy as feather. That is why they dislike plastic shuttles.
    I think you are mixing up player-skills and shuttles... A skillfull player will be skillfull regardless of shuttle used.. But there is no denying that a majority of skillfull players thinks the feather shuttles trajectory, weight and feel are superior to plastics...And to say that top of the world players who prefer feathers over plastics only do so becuase they "cant control the plastic shuttles" is plain silly imhop.

    I find the answer much simpler.. They don't like it becuase it doesn't perform as well as the original it's trying to replicate..

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    Yes, it's true that plastic go faster on smashes from a strong player. However, it also mean it goes out easier so one just cant just smash and drive blindly.
    I've seen lots of plastic games where people got very easy points smashing out of position, out of balance and with flat angle.. just hard.. The plastic skirts presses together in mid air and gets close to impossible to return.. The speed of the plastic just doesnt stop, so there isn't really a "need" to go for the lines, find angels etc.. Just bang flat and hard.. the plastic has high velocity even when hitting a flat smash dropping at the base-line..
    Smash and drive blindly is exactly what most plastic players do!! No need to go for the lines, assing deception and getting angles.. Power is the major factor..

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    If i hit a smash return cross (diagonally) court, the smasher has less time to retrieve the plastic shuttle because it will land the court faster where as with feather, i have an 'lot of time' to run to the other corner to get the smash return.
    I have opposite experience than you.. Because the tracjetory of the Plastic is always so flat.. The return of the smash goes deeper into the court (not as close to the net as you can get a feather shuttle if you take the pace off it).. This actually makes the task a lot easier for the smasher, as he doens't need to be that quick to get closer to the net to follow up the smash. Generally plastic players are better from tha back-court and usually lousy at the net, as far as my experience goes..

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    With a plastic, on hard rear court smashes, if i'm able to do a soft net return, the smasher will find it harder to return because the plastic will deflect and fall faster.
    Your experience seems very strange, The plastics are heavier and have a flat trajectory compared to feathers, So The feather start its decline faster once the speed has decreased.. If the plastic is too fast your statement will be true but then it's like saying returning a grade 79 shuttle will get back faster than a grade 77... If you are comparing shuttles of different speed you are comparing apples and oranges...

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    backhand is a lotter harder using plastic. If u can BH a plastic, BH shot on the feather is a piece of cake.
    Yes and no.. I have seen horror examples of people developed "baseball"-backhands and "jumping-arm" swings with plastics to do cross court backhand-clears.. It's very easy to develop "bad" teqniques if you start of with "bad" shuttles.. Learning a cross backhand clear with feather is hard enough for most people :-)..

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    In many occasion, i see beginners (C and lower) see themselves as better players than they really are because they are 'playing' feathers.
    Until they play a "really" good player....
    And btw if they feel better about themselves, whats the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    I'm not saying feather performance isnt better. Until one get the proper footwork and strokes right, playing plastic or feather is not much different. For 'A' or better players, feather is recommended. 'B' can be either. C or lower makes no different but u have to sweep the court more often when using feather shuttles (feather droplings )
    I've actually hear that some stadium owners try to enqurage plastc because there is less cleaning.. Well I could see that point...for them.. But not for me as a paying customer...I Think its just good that they get a reason to clean the courts more often

    /Twobeer
    Last edited by twobeer; 01-03-2006 at 05:19 PM.

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    i'll go at it one piece at a time

    twobeer:
    1. think you are mixing up player-skills and shuttles... A skillfull player will be skillfull regardless of shuttle used..

    2.But there is no denying that a majority of skillfull players thinks the feather shuttles trajectory, weight and feel are superior to plastics...And to say that top of the world players who prefer feathers over plastics only do so becuase they "cant control the plastic shuttles" is plain silly imhop.

    3. I find the answer much simpler.. They don't like it becuase it doesn't perform as well as the original it's trying to replicate..



    1. LOL, isnt that what i have said before in another thread "it's either u got it or u don't" (keith chan as example) Those are my words. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...hlight=feather


    2. i'm not nor had not denying the flight, feel characteristic are different I didn't say skillful players can't control plastic shuttle, i said it is HARDER in comparision to feather. That is why all players eventually gravitate to feather playing.

    3. u keep saying plastic doesnt perform as well as feather, not denying that. U are just giving me more support here. If something is less performing, as in plastic, it generally mean IT IS HARDER TO CONTROL IT, LESS COMFORMTABLE TO PLAY, LESS FEEDBACK.

    A simple analogy:

    which would u prefer to play with?

    steel = durable, hard to control
    graphite racket=feel nice and less strenuous but not durable.

    0.85mm string = durable, minimal feeback
    0.67mm bg85 = not durable, great feel and feedback

    wouldn't u say a steel racket is harder to control?
    wouldn't u say the thick 0.85mm string is easier to control?

    wouldn't u say all players would prefer a graphite racket with bg85 in this example?

    so in parallel

    plastic= durable but harder to control
    feather= better feel and control, less durable.

    feather is superior in the sense it is easier to control.
    lower terminal speed feature of a feather shuttle does not equate to superiority. It just mean a different flight profile. Yonex can make really really slow plastic shuttles if they want to.
    Last edited by cooler; 01-03-2006 at 06:14 PM.

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