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  1. #86
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    Suppose that, sometime in the future, it becomes impossible (or impractical) to play with feather shuttles.

    This might happen because the IBF switches tournaments to plastics, and eventually the manufacturers give up on feathers as non-profitable.

    If this happens, I will give up badminton completely; I'll play squash instead. That's how strongly I feel about the difference between playing with feathers and plastic.

    (This assumes, of course, that the future plastics will have playing characteristics similar to the current ones.)

    It's a totally different game. I mean no disrespect to people who play with plastics, but I am not interested in playing with them seriously. Playing with plastics destroys badminton for me.

    I have invested far too much time and love in this sport to bear such a decline. It would be too painful -- every time I played, I would remember how it used to be, and how much of my practice and skill development was wasted.

    If plastics take over badminton, I'd rather file for divorce than continue a broken relationship with my sport
    Last edited by Gollum; 01-04-2006 at 04:32 PM.

  2. #87
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    then i see a potential crises/problem brooding here.
    if feather shuttle supplies are just meeting current demand and we want badminton to be more popular which i feel can be many folds more popular than today, then something big and/or drastic has to happen
    Last edited by cooler; 01-04-2006 at 04:39 PM.

  3. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    then i see a potential crises/problem brooding here.
    if feather shuttle supplies are just meeting current demand and we want badminton to be more popular which i feel can be many folds more popular than today, then something big and/or drastic has to happen
    Yes we need to cure the flu ..


    Or put those japaneese scientists with heads big as basketballs to innovate the new super duper nano-polymer-tech shuttles that is an improvement of what mother nature (or should I say mother goose) can produce!!

    /twobeer

  4. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer
    Yes we need to cure the flu ..


    Or put those japaneese scientists with heads big as basketballs to innovate the new super duper nano-polymer-tech shuttles that is an improvement of what mother nature (or should I say mother goose) can produce!!

    /twobeer
    lol, i think sony and toyota have hog all those big headed japanese scientists

    that said, the nylon shuttle hasnt been improved for ages since it was invented in 1938.

    mean while racket improvement were:

    wood
    steel
    Al
    carbon fiber
    ACM boron
    hi modulus graphite
    ultra modulus graphite
    Ti-mesh
    Ti-strip
    nanocarbon.

    string:

    gut
    solid filament
    weaved filament
    multi-layers
    vectran
    Last edited by cooler; 01-04-2006 at 05:55 PM.

  5. #90
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    lol, i think sony and toyota have hog all those big headed japanese scientists

    that said, the nylon shuttle hasnt been improved for ages since it was invented in 1938.

    mean while racket improvement were:

    wood
    steel
    Al
    carbon fiber
    ACM boron
    hi modulus graphite
    ultra modulus graphite
    Ti-mesh
    Ti-strip
    nanocarbon.

    string:

    gut
    solid filament
    weaved filament
    multi-layers
    vectran
    Dont forget "YONEX" too

    All this things are imminent and things waiting to happen.

    Keep all those dollars and Euros rolling in.

  6. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    lol, i think sony and toyota have hog all those big headed japanese scientists

    that said, the nylon shuttle hasnt been improved for ages since it was invented in 1938.

    >>> that's a little unfair. The plastics still aren't great, and they
    >>> still collapse and fly like a rock but the Mavis 500 or 370 is
    >>> a vast improvement from the old foam-rubber tipped shuttles
    >>> that used to be the only thing available.

    mean while racket improvement were:

    wood
    steel
    Al
    carbon fiber
    ACM boron
    hi modulus graphite
    ultra modulus graphite
    Ti-mesh
    Ti-strip
    nanocarbon.

    >>> you're forgetting sst, bamboo, ceramic, fiberglass, plus
    >>> various hybrids and likely other materials. Lots of development indeed.

    string:

    gut
    solid filament
    weaved filament
    multi-layers
    vectran
    >>> I'd suggest that gut still has better feel than any of the synthetics,
    >>> so maybe this is more of an example closer to the case of
    >>> shuttles.

  7. #92
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    Now if plastics can be made to the quality of the best goose feathers shuttles, then do you chaps still have a problem? Or if not as good as the best feathers then as good as the best duck feathers. Yes, your first reaction might be that it is impossible-making plastics as good as feathers.
    The expected increase in the demsnd for shuttles simply cannot be met with feathers. Feathers are a by-product, from populations that eat geese. Now the geese-eating population is not going to increase at the same rate as the feather shuttle badminton population. Geese are birds, birds are avian flu carriers, and the world's biggest consumer of geese, China, may even ban geese from her land. Then what? There are huge and massive troubles ahead, all caused by this none other than geese.

  8. #93
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    To do this you must go away with the durability of the nylon shuttles to a certain degree.... to create 'zero memory' of the plastic 'feathers'. Stiffer but breakable to reduce trajectory distortion.

    Hey, if they can produce shuttles that fly like feathers, last as long as feathers (at least), eco friendly (can recycle), and cost $$$$ cheaper! HEY I'M ALL FOR IT.

    but till that day comes LOL

    The Borneon BaddyNut


    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Now if plastics can be made to the quality of the best goose feathers shuttles, then do you chaps still have a problem? Or if not as good as the best feathers then as good as the best duck feathers. Yes, your first reaction might be that it is impossible-making plastics as good as feathers.
    The expected increase in the demsnd for shuttles simply cannot be met with feathers. Feathers are a by-product, from populations that eat geese. Now the geese-eating population is not going to increase at the same rate as the feather shuttle badminton population. Geese are birds, birds are avian flu carriers, and the world's biggest consumer of geese, China, may even ban geese from her land. Then what? There are huge and massive troubles ahead, all caused by this none other than geese.

  9. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man
    Hey, if they can produce shuttles that fly like feathers, last as long as feathers (at least), eco friendly (can recycle), and cost $$$$ cheaper! ...
    You'll have to wait a loooooong time. Manufacturers aren't going to kill their "golden goose" (no pun intended). Selling plastic shuttles actually makes them $$$. No way they will reduce retail prices. I don't think anyone will release a plastic bird that simulates the flight of a feather one until they are sure they can get the same repeat purchase rate as feather shuttles. Who knows, there might be such a shuttle already but being held back by the bean counters.

  10. #95
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madbad
    You'll have to wait a loooooong time. Manufacturers aren't going to kill their "golden goose" (no pun intended). Selling plastic shuttles actually makes them $$$. No way they will reduce retail prices. I don't think anyone will release a plastic bird that simulates the flight of a feather one until they are sure they can get the same repeat purchase rate as feather shuttles. Who knows, there might be such a shuttle already but being held back by the bean counters.

    Yeah i agree with you!

    from what i have heard, we should have been driving cold fusion engine cars by now, but nooooooooooo! the capitalist just had to have their combustion engines stock phased out


    hehehehehehe

    back to topic --> i can't wait for the reaction from pro players!
    For instance, What does 'Our JR' have got to say about it??????

    The Borneon BaddyNut

  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by madbad
    You'll have to wait a loooooong time. Manufacturers aren't going to kill their "golden goose" (no pun intended). Selling plastic shuttles actually makes them $$$. No way they will reduce retail prices. I don't think anyone will release a plastic bird that simulates the flight of a feather one until they are sure they can get the same repeat purchase rate as feather shuttles. Who knows, there might be such a shuttle already but being held back by the bean counters.
    I don't think plastic shuttle manufacturers are actually making money from plastics. The atom size scale of plastics volume ensures their high total costs. If there is so much money to be made from plastics you can bet your bottom dollar that the world will be flooded with Chinese plastics. Feathers are extremely cheap, solely because of the China factor. In 1955 an RSL or Blue Bird shuttle (both used for Thomas Cup matches) would cost about US$0.40 each. This was the same amount of money I used for my lunch and dinner. The price you pay for one of today's best feather shuttle wouldn't even buy you a cup of coffee today.
    So long as feathers keep coming out from China, plastics will never take off, in quality or demand. When feathers start to be the exclusive preserve of the very rich, plastics will then really take off. There must light at the end of the tunnel before plastics can replace feathers, and the light at the end of the tunnel must spell $$$$$$.

  12. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Now if plastics can be made to the quality of the best goose feathers shuttles, then do you chaps still have a problem? Or if not as good as the best feathers then as good as the best duck feathers. Yes, your first reaction might be that it is impossible-making plastics as good as feathers.
    .
    If they were as playable and as durable for similar price- sure!

    Right now they cost more and wear out as fast or faster. Like the
    4 plastics I used up for one singles match not that long ago. They don't
    tear that fast but the skirts collapse pretty easily with hard smashes
    and they don't recover so that after half a game or so they can be way too
    fast to use.

    But sure- give me a plastic shuttle for say $1 apiece that flies as
    well and consistently as feathers and that allows me to adjust
    speed as easily as with feathers for local conditions-- no problem--
    bring it on!

  13. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by madbad
    You'll have to wait a loooooong time. Manufacturers aren't going to kill their "golden goose" (no pun intended). Selling plastic shuttles actually makes them $$$. No way they will reduce retail prices. I don't think anyone will release a plastic bird that simulates the flight of a feather one until they are sure they can get the same repeat purchase rate as feather shuttles. Who knows, there might be such a shuttle already but being held back by the bean counters.
    but in reality, they haven't found it.

    you are correct that greediness will make them not want to release a feather like and durable plastic. but it is also the case that if they can design such a beast, they would want to be the first one to put it onto the market. ie. it is a double edge sword.

    and if any of them have created one, we will be sure to find it file in the patent office. and i have not found any such patents.

    so it is safe to assume at this point that jug8man may be correct, whether it is business advantage or technological barrier, we may see cold fusion before we see a feather like plastic shuttle.

    and i am on the same page as some others, if they can produce a truely feather like plastic birdie, ie, if you blindfold me (erm...) and i won't be able to tell the difference, i have no problems adopting it.

    but at this very moment, such a product do not exist.

  14. #99
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    If you can hit rallies blindfolded, I think we've just found the best badminton player of all time.

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    Anyhow, I think the trick to making a synthetic shuttlecocks that fly, play and feel like feather ones is not to use plastic skirts, but instead to use synthetic feathers while keeping the original (shuttlecock) construction. I can't believe that with all the advancement in material science and manufacturing technology that they---whoever "they" are---can't come up with synthetic feathers that can replace real goose ones. Fake feathers already exists. It can't be that hard to extend that a little to design and manufacture something that resembles goose feathers, can it? Not if they *really* try?
    Last edited by Quasimodo; 01-05-2006 at 07:04 PM.

  16. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasimodo
    Anyhow, I believe the trick to making a synthetic shuttlecocks that fly, play and feel like feather ones is not to use plastic skirts, but instead to use synthetic feathers and keep the original (shuttlecock) construction. I can't believe that with all the advancement in material science and manufacturing technology that they---whoever "they" are---can't come up with synthetic feathers that can replace real goose ones. Fake feathers already exists. It can't be that hard to extend that a little to design and manufacture something that resembles goose feathers, can it? Not if they *really* try?
    Quasimodo does have a good point, the skirt of the feather shuttle rarely get destroy. most of the fragility of the feather shuttle are on the stem and the feather itself.

    i have the same thought before. various nylon products already have good rigidity. the only problem left is whether they can make it as light as feathers.

    if you notice, the current plastic birdies have feathers:

    1) quite thin
    2) a lot of empty spaces (ie. holes) on them.
    3) moulded into a single skirt. ie, the feathers are connected.

    with all these tricks together they managed to reduce the weight down to feather weight ( 1, 2 ) while maintaining some rigidity ( 3 ). the question in my head is that: will it be possible to create independent plastic feathers of the same weight and rigidity?

    i do believe the answer is yes. but will it be durable?

    the main factors for a true replacement are:

    1. weight (as light as feather, as well as weight distribution)
    2. rigidity (as stiff as feather)
    3. durability (must be better than feathers to be worthwhile)
    4. cost

    factors 1 and 2 determines the playability, ie. how feather like it is. from the discussion here, many current feather users will not accept much compromise here. it must be as good (or very very close).

    factors 3 and 4 determines the affordability and thus worthiness of a design. if the combined durability+cost isn't comparable (or ideally better) than feathers, it will be hard to convince people to switch over.

  17. #102
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    Have you ever wondered why plastic shuttles are made by the same racquet companies? Almost all racquet companies are not high tech companies at all. The high tech materials they use to make their racquets are actually made by real high tech companies such as Toray Chemicals, Du Pont, Hoechst AG, etc. You want plastics to play as well as feathers? Talk to these giants, not just the racquet companies. As a matter of fact that is what I did but it is for something else and not for plastic shuttles.

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