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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vip_m
    I appreciate Dinkalot, Jerby, and Gollum's comments about not over-intellectualizing or being a perfectionist, I just think badminton (or any endeavor for that matter) is more fun when you're creative, you experiment. It's what drives humans to achieve things greater than what people before thought impossible, right?

    The badminton slice-drop is common now, but I wouldn't be surprised if in the past nobody had thought about it until some enterprising and creative person decided to try it out.

    So let's not disparage trying out new things. You'll never know unless you try what works and what doesn't.

    Regarding what Dinkalot said, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I was talking about this technique with regards to the fast drop rather than the slice drop (which is what Dinkalot is talking about). I read somewhere that by hitting the fast drop above the sweetspot, you get a shuttle flight that hugs the net closer than if you had it at the sweetspot. And sometimes a fast drop is what you're after than a slice if you're trying to surprise your opponent.
    Tryign out new thigns is indeed good
    keep theorizing and talking thigns that are utter details is "not"

    i dunno about you, but my drops "are" *hugging* teh net... to rework my stroke with such an implementation would take a long time.

    a: angle is determined by racket angle. not hit-point. change your racket angle, not hit-point...
    b: huggign the net comes from control
    c: control comes from practise
    d: for fast drops the sweetspot gives more repulsion, since it's fast you'd "want" that..

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum
    Personally, I do not see a good reason for hitting drop shots (slow or fast) with the upper strings. Smashes, perhaps -- with the main benefit being a slight increase in power from using a "longer lever" to hit. Possibly it would help to keep your swing consistent with smashes.

    To be honest, I don't really know where I hit my drops on the stringbed.

    But go try it If it works for you, that's great -- and come tell us about it!
    smashes with top-part.
    wouldn't that theoretically ( ) reduce your power?

    I also don't know were i hit, but i feel it when i mis-hit

  3. #20
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    Arguably:

    "Hitting fast drops from the top is good, because there will be less repulsion. Less repulsion means you can use a faster swing, which is more deceptive."

    But, like so many of these ideas, I think it doesn't work/doesn't matter in practice.

  4. #21
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    that's a good way to look at it.
    but i agree that theory<practical, at least in this case...

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerby
    smashes with top-part.
    wouldn't that theoretically ( ) reduce your power?
    Theoretically, I see two competing effects:

    On the sweetspot: more power because maximum energy transfer through strings.

    Higher up: more power because you are using a slightly longer lever (same reason a long grip is more powerful than a short grip).

    Probable resolution: hit very slightly above the sweetspot for a compromise and maximum power.

    I have a vague feeling that top players actually do this. And I think I might do it too.

    Then again, it's such a fine distinction, how can one be sure?

    Best thing to do is practise your smash swing timing until you get the most effective results (change timing = change postion of shuttle contact on strings).

    You will learn what feels right by practice and experimentation.
    Last edited by Gollum; 01-02-2006 at 05:00 PM.

  6. #23
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    biggest problem woudl be consistency. and i wonder how much you gain, relative to what you put in....
    I'd personally be better off speed-training..

  7. #24
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    Default Doing research

    I just wanted to clear up what was mentioned by some on this topic to "just do it" or just practice the shot instead of asking people about it in this forum--I'm doing research for a book on "Advanced Badminton Techniques" written by a former national-team badminton coach and me (I'm a writer and layout artist who happens to be a fanatic of the sport) and I just wanted to mention in the book all the varied techniques available just to make the book as complete and thorough as possible. Since I ran into this technique from some books and people I've met, I therefore wanted to mention it in the book--but also include the pros and cons. The badminton coach I'm working with agrees with most of you that it'll be too difficult in hurried conditions to consistently hit using the above-the-sweetspot part of the racket. On the other hand, I've been trying this technique out for years (from having first read about it years ago) and I guess, because I was naive (I didn't know it was supposed to be difficult), I can do it pretty easily when I want to (like when I do fast drops).

    The badminton coach wanted me to remove the entry describing the technique initially but I convinced him that we'll just mention the cons (like what you guys have mentioned--inconsistency, etc.) and give the readers the chance to know that it exists and they might find it effective. I mentioned to the coach that we included another technique which he disagreed with but which was advocated by a lot of other coaches/trainers and acknowledged that readers would appreciate knowing about all the possibilities.

    So thank you to all who've responded in this forum so far and keep 'em coming.

    There are also many techniques the badminton coach did mention that at first I found extremely difficult and hard to learn, but with practice, proved to be very effective and we're excited coming out with a book that would teach advanced as well as proper techniques using lots of photographs, illustrations, examples in digestible, clear, easy-to-read text.

    According to our publisher, the reason why a similar book on badminton (lots of pictures, diagrams, teaching tips, etc.) hasn't come out yet is because most publishers feel the badminton book market is too small to accomodate the expense of producing such a book, unlike, let's say, the golf instructional market. Just to include hundreds of pictures, the publisher said, would jack up the production cost by thousands of dollars and make the book too expensive. But I guess me and the coach were naive because we were able to do it. Maybe it's because we're motivated by the fact that we've been clamoring for such a book outselves. If there had been such a book, we would never had worked on this project, we would have just BOUGHT that book. But as they say, "necessity is the mother of invention"--since we couldn't find such a book, we decided to develop it ourselves for the benefit of all, and so far, it's turned out better than what we'd hoped.

  8. #25
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Good luck with the book Vip!

  9. #26
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    I hope the project succeeds -- and please keep us informed of the book's progress

    I suggest that, as with any form of writing, you exercise some quality control. It's very tempting to include every idea you can think of, but this has the effect of diluting your other good content.

    What positive information do you have about this technique? Have you talked to any senior coaches or players (say, county or national level) who have endorsed it? What reasons have they given?

    In my view, you should not mention it in writing unless you have something positive to say about it. No-one wants to read about useless techniques.

    Regarding what Dinkalot said, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I was talking about this technique with regards to the fast drop rather than the slice drop (which is what Dinkalot is talking about). I read somewhere that by hitting the fast drop above the sweetspot, you get a shuttle flight that hugs the net closer than if you had it at the sweetspot. And sometimes a fast drop is what you're after than a slice if you're trying to surprise your opponent.
    At high levels of play, almost all fast drops are sliced (both straight and cross).

    I think perhaps you are mixing up the effects of two techniques:

    1. Slice
    2. Using the top strings


    I have never heard any coach or player recommend using the top strings to create tighter fast drops. But using slice is a well-recognised method for making fast drops "faster but tight".

    Essentially, slice makes the shuttle slow down more rapidly as it travels. This means that you can hit the shuttle faster without having it fall any deeper in the court.

    It works like this:

    When you slice the shuttle, it spins sideways . The spinning increases the air resistance and therefore slows the shuttle down more rapidly as it travels. So hard-hit slices will speed towards the net, only to "die" and fall more softly and tighter than expected.

    Slicing also induces a gentle curve to the shuttle's flight. The curve is the result of this same deceleration of the shuttle.

    If you watch the pros play singles, you can see these effects very clearly in cross-court drops. The trajectory achieved by some of the most skillful singles players is incredible (look at Mia Audina's crosscourt drops)

    I've even observed this curve in practice sessions (looking at my partner's crosscourt drops).
    Last edited by Gollum; 01-03-2006 at 03:34 AM.

  10. #27
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum
    I've even observed this curve in practice sessions (looking at my partner's crosscourt drops).
    Yes, drops that curve are so sweet but murder on cross strings.

  11. #28
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    well i actually always hit a drop with the top of the racket... i find it easier to bring the birdie downwards n it gives me more precision on where i want to drop it...

  12. #29
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LD-DL
    well i actually always hit a drop with the top of the racket... i find it easier to bring the birdie downwards n it gives me more precision on where i want to drop it...
    Wow, skilled! But how do you know you are hitting the top of the string bed instead of the middle? The ony way to tell would be to videotape yourself and slo-mo playback; at least I think.

  13. #30
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    Easy. He probably hit the frame. Seriously though, just focus on the timing, guys. A good drop is a good drop. Do enough in practice and you won't have to worry about petty details like where to contact the shuttle for the best effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    Wow, skilled! But how do you know you are hitting the top of the string bed instead of the middle? The ony way to tell would be to videotape yourself and slo-mo playback; at least I think.

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    Yes, drops that curve are so sweet but murder on cross strings.
    Dinkalot, do you confirm this? I break my strings at quite a higher frequencies than all of my friends , and I fancy slice shots. I usually string at 21-22lbs only.

  15. #32
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huynd
    Dinkalot, do you confirm this? I break my strings at quite a higher frequencies than all of my friends , and I fancy slice shots. I usually string at 21-22lbs only.
    Do you break your main or cross strings? My doubles partner and I are complete opposites. I only break main strings while he only breaks cross strings because he does so many reverse slices.

    And yes, I can confirm slicing is worse on strings. There was a post about it a few months back.

  16. #33
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    Default badminton book project update

    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    Good luck with the book Vip!
    The book has just been published! The book is out here in Manila and a Canadian publisher is interested in publishing it for the North American market. We need to make modifications though to the photographs to suit their printing requirements and that'll take some time.

    Meanwhile, the book "Advanced Badminton Techniques" is selling like hotcakes here and people who've bought are really excited about it--they say it's very easy to read and understand while at the same time it is comprehensive and detailed.

    The cover, backcover, and sample pages are at nativecreatives.com/cover.jpg , nativecreatives.com/backcover.jpg, nativecreatives.com/sample.pdf

    Here's my write-up about it:
    "* Foreign publishers have not been able to come up with a good badminton book because they consider the badminton market not be big enough to justify the cost of production. The cost of providing the needed number of photographs and illustrations, hiring a good layout artist, and a good writer will make production of such a book prohibitive.
    * Now a Filipino group composed of Butch Oreta and writer/layout artist Vip Malixi, have overcome the odds to produce “Advanced Badminton Techniques”. Filled with step-by-step photographs and diagrams, former national-badminton-team coach and teaching-expert Butch Oreta and writer Vip Malixi reveal the secrets of world class players in this thorough yet easy-to-read, accessible book.

    Readers will learn to do the different shots—the serve, the jump smash, the tumbling net drop, drives, pushes, etc.—just like the elite players. They’ll find out the different psychological tactics to handle pressure situations; gain an impenetrable defense; learn the keys to greater stroke power, speed, control and deception.

    For easy learning, the book is a 8.5" by 11" trade paperback, in heavy glossy paper with over 180 pages of photographs, diagrams and illustrations."

    If there had already been a book like this, I wouldn't have started it. But since there wasn't, I felt all of us badminton fanatics needed a great book that goes into detail into how to execute the basic and advanced strokes. Hope you guys like it, and I also hope it'll be available eventually to the rest of the world.

  17. #34
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vip_m
    The book has just been published! The book is out here in Manila and a Canadian publisher is interested in publishing it for the North American market. We need to make modifications though to the photographs to suit their printing requirements and that'll take some time.
    Nice Vip! So other than the photograph modifications, the book will be the same? If so, how can I purchase one now?

    Thanks!

    Regards,
    Dan

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