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  1. #1
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default A factor of China's "domination" in badminton..

    ..i was chatting with a someone who recently went back to Indo and then stopped by China to visit both countries' training center. One thing he told me was, when comparing the Indonesia's Pelatnas(national training center) and China, it's simply incomparable. For one, China's training center is much much bigger in size and much more advanced.

    Could this be the "main" factor for China's domination in this sport??..what do you guys think??..

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad
    ..i was chatting with a someone who recently went back to Indo and then stopped by China to visit both countries' training center. One thing he told me was, when comparing the Indonesia's Pelatnas(national training center) and China, it's simply incomparable. For one, China's training center is much much bigger in size and much more advanced.

    Could this be the "main" factor for China's domination in this sport??..what do you guys think??..
    What do you mean by "much more advanced"? Surely it has all the usual facilities like badminton courts, aerobic and weights machines, massage rooms, saunas, showers. What could be more advanced?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad
    ..i was chatting with a someone who recently went back to Indo and then stopped by China to visit both countries' training center. One thing he told me was, when comparing the Indonesia's Pelatnas(national training center) and China, it's simply incomparable. For one, China's training center is much much bigger in size and much more advanced.

    Could this be the "main" factor for China's domination in this sport??..what do you guys think??..
    so a bigger trainign centre wich is "more advanced" would get a country to "dominate" the sport...

    i dont know abotu you people, but wer ei live we've got 12 courts, in a 3X4 formation. and teh trainings crap. I'm actually stepping on a train to another club for bette rpractises..and teh hall there was built in 1948....and has 7 courts...You might know of "duinwijck" but i doubt it... stil there's teh best practise can get atm...

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    China's domination in this sport is for a very simple reason really. They work their players extremely hard. Chinese people pay quite some attention to badminton and so the sport will always get support from the government. They also have the advantage of population and therefore a larger pool of talent to pick from. But I would think population plays a somewhat smaller factor, given that Denmark, with a population of about only 5.4 million, could produce such world-class players. Actually, come to think about it, I am more interested in how Denmark could so efficiently bring out the very best in badminton players given their small population.

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    There's an old article on http://www.badders.com by Martin Dew-Hattens about how the (badminton) club system works in Denmark. Very interesting, IMHO.

    http://www.badders.com/news/item/543...eally-is%21%21
    Last edited by Quasimodo; 01-11-2006 at 06:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad
    ..i was chatting with a someone who recently went back to Indo and then stopped by China to visit both countries' training center. One thing he told me was, when comparing the Indonesia's Pelatnas(national training center) and China, it's simply incomparable. For one, China's training center is much much bigger in size and much more advanced.

    Could this be the "main" factor for China's domination in this sport??..what do you guys think??..
    size of population helps only to a point. INA population is ~ 220 million now so it is more than enough people to pick from. The question is how come INA with less high tech facilities can produce great badminton players. After suharto, things slided down hill.
    Last edited by cooler; 01-11-2006 at 06:53 PM.

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    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasimodo
    There's an old article on http://www.badders.com by Martin Dew-Hattens about how the (badminton) club system works in Denmark. Very interesting, IMHO.

    http://www.badders.com/news/item/543...eally-is%21%21
    Thanks for the link Quasi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Andrianus
    China's domination in this sport is for a very simple reason really. They work their players extremely hard. Chinese people pay quite some attention to badminton and so the sport will always get support from the government. They also have the advantage of population and therefore a larger pool of talent to pick from. But I would think population plays a somewhat smaller factor, given that Denmark, with a population of about only 5.4 million, could produce such world-class players. Actually, come to think about it, I am more interested in how Denmark could so efficiently bring out the very best in badminton players given their small population.
    ...plus the fact that children are being sent to badminton training schools from remote areas at a very young age . Their daily living is simple and without much distraction (less entertainment) . Worst thing is that they will have to be away from their families for LONG TIME

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    Default y0ung

    I seen on TV those youngster age around 5yrs old crying due to the hardship of the training..

    I think domination of a country usually rotate between china & indonesia.
    - 80's to 90's china domination
    - 90's to 2000 indonesia domination
    -currently china..


    Malaysia, Denmark & Korea always spice up the thing!!
    Last edited by s1nn3r; 01-11-2006 at 11:37 PM.

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    Default The key is what is life after badminton !!!

    I think it will not be only one or two reasons. But one of the main reasons is what incentive could the country provide to attract talented players to give their life to the game of badminton and hence to motivate players to train, practice, and play their hardest in trying to win for their country.
    The welfare of ex-national players of Indonesia are not being taken care of by the government because of lack of funding. WHen a player(s) was still in the national team defending the country, most of the funding come from private corporation donations or pledges. But after a player(s) retire from badminton, that funding stops completely. And for this badminton player, they have no skills rather than racket skills. Often time they become a coach in a much smaller local club in which they make almost nothing compared to what they have done for the country.
    Whereas for example, badminton players in China treat competitive badminton as a life long career in which after retirement their future will still be secured in term of some sort pensiun or guarantee employment from the government. Like during the 05 WC in Anaheim, i happened to speak with Chen QQ about the system in China. I was told that when he retired from badminton he will still draw a monthly salary from government equivalent to what he is making right now until real retirement age. And government will assign him to go back to his hometown to become a coach to his province.

    Unfortunately, this system is not available in Indonesia where the government will guarantee a full employment after badminton life. Remember, what Taufik Hidayat has been fighting about all this time. WHen he was invited to the presidential palace after winning the 05 WC for MS, the first thing he demanded from the current president, SBY was to set up a decent pension program for this national players so that they will have a decent life after badminton. In BAM (Badminton Association of Malaysia), they already set up a pension system such as ex-world class champions will receive about 3000 ringgit per month after retirement for life.

    Indonesian players like Tony Gunawan plus others are very aware of this situation quitted the team while still on top in order to find a solution for themselves. He came here in order to pursue a higher education which he doesnt have while still be able to play and coach the game he loves.

    That is my 2 cents !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by harimau
    I think it will not be only one or two reasons. But one of the main reasons is what incentive could the country provide to attract talented players to give their life to the game of badminton and hence to motivate players to train, practice, and play their hardest in trying to win for their country.
    The welfare of ex-national players of Indonesia are not being taken care of by the government because of lack of funding. WHen a player(s) was still in the national team defending the country, most of the funding come from private corporation donations or pledges. But after a player(s) retire from badminton, that funding stops completely. And for this badminton player, they have no skills rather than racket skills. Often time they become a coach in a much smaller local club in which they make almost nothing compared to what they have done for the country.
    Whereas for example, badminton players in China treat competitive badminton as a life long career in which after retirement their future will still be secured in term of some sort pensiun or guarantee employment from the government. Like during the 05 WC in Anaheim, i happened to speak with Chen QQ about the system in China. I was told that when he retired from badminton he will still draw a monthly salary from government equivalent to what he is making right now until real retirement age. And government will assign him to go back to his hometown to become a coach to his province.

    Unfortunately, this system is not available in Indonesia where the government will guarantee a full employment after badminton life. Remember, what Taufik Hidayat has been fighting about all this time. WHen he was invited to the presidential palace after winning the 05 WC for MS, the first thing he demanded from the current president, SBY was to set up a decent pension program for this national players so that they will have a decent life after badminton. In BAM (Badminton Association of Malaysia), they already set up a pension system such as ex-world class champions will receive about 3000 ringgit per month after retirement for life.

    Indonesian players like Tony Gunawan plus others are very aware of this situation quitted the team while still on top in order to find a solution for themselves. He came here in order to pursue a higher education which he doesnt have while still be able to play and coach the game he loves.

    That is my 2 cents !!!
    Very good point. Even everyone comes for the love of the game, we need the milk and bread 1st, in order to survive.

    Actually, the thinking is not only for "after retirement", but also including "right now", especially for the "not as great" athletes. The champion, or even the national team could be a far away dream for 99.9% of the talents, once being selected and promoted to have better training. CHN doing a great job in taking care of the atheletes to a reasonable standard. Therefore, with a fairly low living cost standard, being an athletes is a better way out for a lot of kids, who come from middle or lower class families. Even if they know the chance to be a star is very rare, but a decent and stable job is not a bad choice at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy
    Very good point. Even everyone comes for the love of the game, we need the milk and bread 1st, in order to survive.

    Actually, the thinking is not only for "after retirement", but also including "right now", especially for the "not as great" athletes. The champion, or even the national team could be a far away dream for 99.9% of the talents, once being selected and promoted to have better training. CHN doing a great job in taking care of the atheletes to a reasonable standard. Therefore, with a fairly low living cost standard, being an athletes is a better way out for a lot of kids, who come from middle or lower class families. Even if they know the chance to be a star is very rare, but a decent and stable job is not a bad choice at all.
    In Indonesia, that thing is being practiced now but to a smaller scale only since only few big corporations will become sponsors as a club player/team. But that does not turn into a lifetime employment ..... or plus it doesnot offer a pension after life of badminton.

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    Default Awaken Dragon

    China has such a well set up system for retire players, no wonder parents sending their young children for tough training. What amaze me is that they also take care of their not well known player, this is really a very good system.

    NO more Sleeping Dragon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harimau
    In Indonesia, that thing is being practiced now but to a smaller scale only since only few big corporations will become sponsors as a club player/team. But that does not turn into a lifetime employment ..... or plus it doesnot offer a pension after life of badminton.
    Indonesia can not sustain itself the same way China does. because of this you can see so many high standard/potential players left PBSI the first chance they could play for an european club.

    But situation may change.... If economic development really improves in China, as in equal (as in not too great a difference) distribution of income earning, China's badminton may soon face the same predicament as countries like Malaysia, Singapore, etc.... because increase in work income, less people would choose badminton as a career for their children.

    Unless of course badminton becomes a lucrative sport like tennis or golf....


    The Borneon BaddyNut

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    i say the main factor is population, there's more ppl in china therefore there would be more ppl playing it comparing to indo.

    if u have been to china, u'll realize that all the familie have at least one pair of racquet.

    when i was there, we had about 4-6 racquet and we don't even play badminton back then.

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    All of you have very good points and I am thankful for that. I heard something like that in China where children are picked for their talent in certain sports from a very young age before they are taken away for training. But there is also good balance there since they also have some pension scheme for these players. So this is probably the secret to their success. I don't think domination will alternate between China and Indonesia anymore. It will stick with China for a very long time and I hate saying this since I am an Indonesian and I really want Indonesia to succeed. The way I look at the situation now, Indonesia is not producing young stars fast enough to replace the current generation sometime in the near future. Taufik Hidayat is a 'fluke', one in a million. Our women's team is in a bad state and I cannot see it improving for quite a while. It's one thing is you have very good players now, but it's a different thing if you cannot get your young ones to develop quickly enough. Look at China, they produce superstars like they come out of a factory. When Taufik and Candra retire, then it will be many times more difficult to win anything at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Andrianus
    All of you have very good points and I am thankful for that. I heard something like that in China where children are picked for their talent in certain sports from a very young age before they are taken away for training. But there is also good balance there since they also have some pension scheme for these players. So this is probably the secret to their success.
    this is actually a very good point. the size of population doesn't do much good if there is no system in place. in China, there are very organized provincial teams, as well as organized sports school. we have read many stories of how China's great badminton players first gets their foot in the local sports school, and then when their talent shows, they get to move on to the provincial capital sports school, and then later on to the provincial team, and eventually get picked by the national team coaches.

    and then after they do get to the national team, there is the top facility that ctjcad mentioned. not only the facility, but the fact that players have their living expenses (lodging, food, utilities) all taken care of so they don't need to worry about making ends meet. as well as the best and experienced coaches (many of them). so all the players need to worry about is badminton, badminton, and badminton.

    without such a national-wide system in place, there can be another billion ppl in the country and it probably won't make a difference.

    contrast that to the US. every kid enroll in normal schools. while some do have badminton as extra-curricular activity, the quality of coaches are limited. and then beyond that, there is very little to support the potentially talented kid aside from parents paying outside coaches out of their own pocket. and then there is a big disconnect from there to the national level.

    China's system isn't easy to implement, however, it is a national system which requires a lot of funding from the top level. certainly the government must have the vision in order for this to happen.

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