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    Default Reward and Punishment System for Team Indonesia's players

    Just read from Bola about this. Yes, we have heard abt it last year, but, we have not seen it being implemented. Just to recap, PBSI have imposed target of semi-final appearance for every players being sent to the grand-prix tournaments. Apparently, PBSI's officials have discussed about the "punishments" for failure to reach the target.

    For players who fail in one tournament, they will not be sent to compete for 2 mths, ie: have to stay in Cipayung for more trainings. The length of punishment increases for every failure: two tournaments = 3 mths; 3 tournaments = 6 mths. What about experience one might ask....Rudi Hartono replied that these players have already been competing in tournaments for quite some time. He even compared his own situation decades back when he claimed that he was only sent overseas once a year. He trained hard for 6 mths and became an All England Champion. There was no difference between him and the current players; or between the strength of the field previously and now. So, if he can do it, the current batch of players can do it too!

    Now, this punishment system will be implemented in stages. Currently, the elite and senior players are spared from it because Team Indonesia still does not have a consistent stock of top players. However, he is pretty certain that it will be implemented in the future. It applies only for grand prix tournaments and not for Thomas and Uber Cups.

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    Interesting way to refine the expeditionary teams. It seems like a pretty good way, at face value, to ensure that those sent out don't 'waste' Indonesia's reputation.

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    I have mix feeling when reading this. Sure, the intention is to "push" players to reach higher lvl. However, the determine factor is still the player him/herself. If one wants to be better, s/he will continue towork hard even s/he is champion already. If one tends to layback, s/he can always find excuses (or, sometimes facts) to complain. Such issues could be the draw, injuries, or judgement calls. It's surely additional pressure on players' mind, during an already intensed competition.

    However, I think being locked at "semi final" is a bit too harsh, especially for younger generation, who extremely lack of expereince on big stage. If s/he fails on the 1st shot, s/he might never be able to get another chance (according to this rule), as s/he will only be locked in a gym, and never get a chance to gain more experience from a real competition. To me, winning experience is important, but losing experience is also necessary, in order to build mental toughness.

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    If a player fails in the 1st shot, the player will practice for 2 months and then be able to try it again, I think it's fair.

    The younger players can participate in smaller tournaments, perhaps 1 or 2 star tournaments.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy
    I have mix feeling when reading this. Sure, the intention is to "push" players to reach higher lvl. However, the determine factor is still the player him/herself. If one wants to be better, s/he will continue towork hard even s/he is champion already. If one tends to layback, s/he can always find excuses (or, sometimes facts) to complain. Such issues could be the draw, injuries, or judgement calls. It's surely additional pressure on players' mind, during an already intensed competition.

    However, I think being locked at "semi final" is a bit too harsh, especially for younger generation, who extremely lack of expereince on big stage. If s/he fails on the 1st shot, s/he might never be able to get another chance (according to this rule), as s/he will only be locked in a gym, and never get a chance to gain more experience from a real competition. To me, winning experience is important, but losing experience is also necessary, in order to build mental toughness.

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    But, the target of semi-final is a little bit too unrealistic for the women's singles players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveStanley
    If a player fails in the 1st shot, the player will practice for 2 months and then be able to try it again, I think it's fair.

    The younger players can participate in smaller tournaments, perhaps 1 or 2 star tournaments.
    But younger players will learn more by playing against top players. That mean they can enter 6 major tournment at most a year. Don't forget there are only 4 semi-finalists. The only Indonesian able to get into semi-final consistently is Taufik and Chandra/Sigit, not even Sony and the other MD teams. I will foresee they will have problem producing another Taufik in the future.

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    Is the fear of losing the best motivator? At this rate they won't be sending any women players to compete at ANY time. Sure, wasting PBSI's $$$ is one thing but isn't the whole objective to develop world class players? Imagine if the same level of players keep training against each other for 2, 3 or 6 months, how much improvement can they achieve? Also the lack of international match exposure will definitely factor into the equation. Curious approach by the PBSI.

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    the punishment is kinda harsh. sooner or later, we will not see any players from INA at all.

    think about it, for every event, even if INA only sends max 3 players. do they expect everyone of them to reach the semi? realistically, may be 1 player can, and optimistically, maybe 2 of them. they have to remember that at the level of semi, there are 4 spots, and there are more players from other countries who are as skilled if not more so.

    sooner or later, most if not all will be under punishment and we will never see any more INA players in international tournaments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun
    the punishment is kinda harsh. sooner or later, we will not see any players from INA at all.

    think about it, for every event, even if INA only sends max 3 players. do they expect everyone of them to reach the semi?
    I think since last year, we have started to see Team Indonesia trimming the number of players being sent to each tournament. This year, there are only 5 players (2 of them in mixed doubles) and 1 coach (Hendrawan) being sent to the Swiss and German Open. The All-England contingent is only 11 players (with 1 singles and 5 doubles pairs) and probably 2-3 coaches (Ko Herry, Richard Mainaky, and probably Christian Hadinata). The number is definitely the smallest among South-East Asian countries (Thailand and Malaysia).

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    I dont think it should be referred to as punishment... that doesn't sound constructive at all, despite the fact that the system is constructive

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    This is probably the most hilarious idea from PBSI officials.

    Example: It is realistic for Fransisca Ratnasari to at least reach SF of German Open when she had to meet Zhang Ning in Round 1?

    We already know that she lost. Even if Fransisca use 300% of her strength she still cannot beat ZN cause the skill level between them are too far. So it is fair if Fransisca get punishment?

    It will be more realistic if each players get different target based on the tournaments and based on the draw.

    Another example: Jo/Gresia will probably meet Yang/ Zhang YW in All England WD second round. So it is still realistic target for Indonesia pair to reach SF?

    This is another lame excuse for PBSI not to send players who cannot make money for hem and only send top players like Taufik, Chandra/Sigit, Luluk/Alven and Nova/Lily. Cause they are PBSI machine money now. I wonder what PBSIofficials will do with lots of money they surely will made this year by this hilarious new rules?

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    The more tournaments (even 1 or 2 star ones) they play, the better chance they have of advancing further and picking up ranking points. The accumulation of ranking points will eventually lead to higher rankings and being seeded in tournaments. Being seeded in tournaments means avoiding the top players till the quarter finals. In a nutshell, PBSI has got everything backwards. Yeah, what are they going to do with all that $$$$$$$$

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    If this really happen , i foresee that many will be joining the likes of Tony Gunawan , Halim Haryanto in playing for other countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveStanley
    If a player fails in the 1st shot, the player will practice for 2 months and then be able to try it again, I think it's fair.

    The younger players can participate in smaller tournaments, perhaps 1 or 2 star tournaments.
    We need some fair evalution on player's development, on all level. The final result based on many factors, and purely looking at the final result can only destroy talents, rather than encourage them.

    Put this way, say a player is trying so hard to get a chance to play, only to see meeting #1 in then 1st (or very early) round. The chance for him/her to pull an upset is very low, then, s/he got "locked" up. With even lower ranking points, s/he will surely repeat the same fate over and over. Therefore, unless a player can go to semi on his/her VERY FIRST shot, s/he can kiss goodbye to his/her short career.

    To me, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, simple as that...

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    IMHO, the proposed system wields too much stick and yields not enough carrots. Because, even if players achieve their goal (e.g., got to the SF, F or even win the tourney), 50% of their prize money is automatically PBSI's. While, if they don't reach their target, they still lose 50% of whatever prize money they get, if any, and they're "locked up" as LB put it. Not much of a motivation, if you ask me. In fact, with this policy in force, if I were an up-and-coming player in Pelatnas(sp?), I'd jump ship at the first chance I get. It'd still be hard living playing club in Denmark or elsewhere, but just to get out of the oppressive environment would be worth it.

    I'm surprised that Rudy came up with this proposal. I've the greatest of respect for him as a player and that's not going to change. But, his skill as an administrator remains to be seen. Perhaps he and the rest of PBSI heads should first look at improving the outlook for players once they're gone past their prime, as some BC members have pointed out in another thread, instead of abandoning them to fend for themselves. Then they can toughen up their training regime and expectation. Basically, for every additional stick there should be an equivalent additional carrot.

    YMMV.

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    BTW, everytime this topic comes up, I notice a common theme for the reason they (i.e., PBSI) do the things they do: when Indonesian players lose in early rounds, it reflects negatively on the program and even the country. Does it really? Is this real or just a perceived slight? Do we think negatively of any programs, clubs, countries when their players lose in the early rounds? I don't, but what about you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasimodo
    BTW, everytime this topic comes up, I notice a common theme for the reason they (i.e., PBSI) do the things they do: when Indonesian players lose in early rounds, it reflects negatively on the program and even the country. Does it really? Is this real or just a perceived slight? Do we think negatively of any programs, clubs, countries when their players lose in the early rounds? I don't, but what about you?
    You've got to think about it from the point of view of a country with a very proud badminton tradition. Indonesia is used to winning at badminton and for many years they were the top nation. However, something went awry along the way and through years of neglect, greed and corruption, PBSI cannot find enough fingers to plug the increasingly leaky dyke.

    I suppose this current policy is their way of dealing with it but as many have pointed out (just plain common sense?), it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better... if it ever does.

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