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Thread: Shame on IBF

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seven
    I may disappoint you but I am not candidate for entering IBF board!

    We have already made propositions in threads about scoring system on more important things to reform, including : grand prix circuit (too many equivalent tournaments), world ranking system (too many points for first round losers) etc...

    There would be many more things to do, but I don't see the point in spending hours thinking on them, when we have no power of decision anyway...
    (it's IBF board's job to do the thinking)
    I dont have figures to support me, but what really interests me is squash.

    At one time in the 80s it was even bigger than badminton, but recently Malaysia produced its first world champion and no one watched the event on Tv because itwas never televised.

    And the big players in Squash are the British and Australians !

    Well perhaps it is an eg. I can think of where baddy has performed better.

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    Default The death of a sport

    i think I understand what the IBF is up to ;

    In 1980s squash in Msia was big time, everyone watched Jahangir Khan

    on TV and liked to play like him, squash courts were built everywhere and you had to queue to play.

    Today squash has never been aired on TV , there are courts everywhere but no one wants to play as they have no TV exposure, no one sells racquets etc.Few know how to play the game.

    Then there is Table Tennis, youngsters refrain from playing the game, they

    dont want to be associated with the scrawny bespectacled nerds seen on Tv, until it is no longer seen on Tv.

    Youngsters shy away from the two, they rather be like the glamorous Beckham they see on TV or Michael Jordan or Tiger Wood s or Michelle Wie.

    It's got a lot to do with commrecilisation just as in pop music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn
    I dont have figures to support me, but what really interests me is squash.

    At one time in the 80s it was even bigger than badminton, but recently Malaysia produced its first world champion and no one watched the event on Tv because itwas never televised.

    And the big players in Squash are the British and Australians !

    Well perhaps it is an eg. I can think of where baddy has performed better.
    Squash :
    * doesn't have the same history as badminton
    * has never been popular worldwide
    * has not developped via "associative" federations but via private clubs
    * (therefore?) is more expensive to play at (=> reserved to an "elite")
    * is repetitive and uninteresting on TV (except for specialists)
    * has never been olympic

    So can we really compare? (and finding one worse example wouldn't prove much anyway... )

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    Quote Originally Posted by seven
    Agree with you, the number of registered players of each national federation has to be taken into account in the votes.
    Really? In Asia, particularly in Indonesia and Malaysia, there are many players who are not registered players. I would say the unregistered players there probably comprise more than 95%. Some of these unregistered players can beat the hell out of grade B or B+ players in countries that play in badminton league matches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I may disappoint you but I am [b
    not[/b] candidate for entering IBF board!

    We have already made propositions in threads about scoring system on more important things to reform, including : grand prix circuit (too many equivalent tournaments), world ranking system (too many points for first round losers) etc...

    There would be many more things to do, but I don't see the point in spending hours thinking on them, when we have no power of decision anyway...
    (it's IBF board's job to do the thinking)
    Just because you don't have the power of decision-by the way, if you want such power you have to work for it-is not a good reason to be so biased and negative towards the IBF. Making propositions in threads about one thousand and one suggestions is for discussion in this forum. How are they related to the IBF or Punch Gunalan? Just because the IBF didn't hear us or read our threads should not be an excuse to damn them. We are not the 'parent company' of the IBF.
    Maybe, we can do something better by actually helping the IBF. For a start, why don't we start drafting the laws of badminton in all the languages of the world instead of in English? Don't you agree that to be really international the laws of badminton must also go international?
    There is a world of difference in the two perspectives-one from a small corner on the ground and the other from a 'helicopter' point of view. Now you don't want the two to swap places, do you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by seven
    But it is true that many recent IBF decisions have been really bad, and I think the current team is really not up to it, and are harming our sport a lot!!
    I think this is a very serious accusation. Who are in the current IBF team? What have they done lately that is "harming our sport a lot".

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    Quote Originally Posted by seven
    Badminton is (or was?) one of the most popular sport worldwide and is as old as most major sports, and I think IBF has been pretty unefficient over the years to promote and structure the sport, mainly due to internal political problems...
    Let us put this straight-badminton is now more popular than ever before. To say otherwise is all bull and nonsense. Speculating on how it could be done better is not the same as saying there is no improvement. Yes, it could be done better. The same applies to all sports and all human endeavour. This quest for that extra mile is the hallmark of excellence.
    Please see and put things in proper perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Really? In Asia, particularly in Indonesia and Malaysia, there are many players who are not registered players. I would say the unregistered players there probably comprise more than 95%. Some of these unregistered players can beat the hell out of grade B or B+ players in countries that play in badminton league matches.
    This is one other reason why I think that the current IBF voting system is not really representative enough.

    Many players in Asia and other less developed countries such as Africa may not be 'registered players' by IBF definition. Many continue to play badminton for the love of it. Their badminton setups and facilities may not be as well-structured and established as those in the West. In fact, many are still backward by Western standards.

    The truth is I'm not even a registered player and I've been involved in this game since young. Just imagine how many more are like me or even in a worse situation than me. Despite being an active IBF member for so many decades, Singapore still doesn't have a professional leaque.

    So is 'registered players' a good and fair gauge? If it is not, then the current voting system is flawed! And to eliminate all these unfair measurements, a "one country one vote system" should replace the current one.
    Last edited by Loh; 02-09-2006 at 07:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Really? In Asia, particularly in Indonesia and Malaysia, there are many players who are not registered players. I would say the unregistered players there probably comprise more than 95%. Some of these unregistered players can beat the hell out of grade B or B+ players in countries that play in badminton league matches.
    This is the case in all countries, including France (around 100 000 registered players, approx 2 million players), but the only official figure is the one of registered players.

    It is too easy to cheat on the total number of players, and anyway there is no precise way of counting it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    [...]by the way, if you want such power you [...]
    No I don't. (didn't you read what I said just before?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Let us put this straight-badminton is now more popular than ever before. To say otherwise is all bull and nonsense.
    This is going against IBF's claim, that badminton is going downhill and that this is why they need to change the scoring system.
    If badminton is more popular than ever before (which it is in France), there is no reason to change the scoring system.

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Speculating on how it could be done better is not the same as saying there is no improvement. Yes, it could be done better. The same applies to all sports and all human endeavour. This quest for that extra mile is the hallmark of excellence.
    Please see and put things in proper perspective.
    The only thing we say (and not I) is that IBF is not up to it.

    Spending lots of money and energy on changing a scoring system which works perfectly well, instead of addressing the real problems is a real prooth of blindness and incompetence.

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    I said the IBF has gone forward and improved the world standing of badminton because of what I have seen over the last three or more years that I have been a member of this Forum.

    Perhaps the watershed year was 1992 when badminton first made its appearance at the Olympics. This was more than ten years ago, but what has the IBF done before that year? Someone should research into this and also find out who and from which country the IBF Council was comprised of in 1992. This committee should be congratulated for their hard work in publicizing badminton to the world on TV. For that was perhaps the first time that the world really got to see what an explosive game badminton was and still is. As the Olympics comes about only every 4 years, badminton has appeared only 4 times so far. Isn't this a pity when we know that the IBF was founded in 1934 and its pioneer members were all from the West. It took 58 years for badminton to be recognized by the Olympics!

    During the last few years, more of IBF grand prix events were televised and brought to the reaches of many more countries. Now, the IBF has even engaged a professional company to help them in this regard. I'm sure we will see positive results from this tie-up.

    But, I consider by far the most significant contribution by the past and present IBF Council is the setting up of the three International Training Centres to benefit young talents from the 'less-badminton-developed' countries, even from countries we hardly heard of not too long ago. What it means is that countries hitherto never counted as far as badminton goes, are now roped into the extended IBF family. The IBF must have enlarged its active membership during the last few years. And even the Olympic Council has recognized and approved two of these training centres for scholarship purposes.

    In Punch Gunalan's recent open letter to badminton fans, he has set out IBF Council's goals, action plans and the reasons for certain decisions, including the 21-point scoring system. Council members need to have a 'helicopter view' of things and a forward-looking vision to ensure that badminton keeps on improving and making its mark in international sports. They have other interested members to help them in the nitty-gritties. We should support their plans and give them positive feedback. We should also let them know when they have done a good job.

    Whether they wiil succeed in their goals is left to be seen. But reasonable time must be given to implement their plans. The fact that they are willing to discuss and make their plans transparent is already a great departure from the old IBF practice.

    As I've said, if someone could do some research, make comparisions, measure what the 'new' IBF has done against the 'old' IBF (say before 1992), then will we be able to truly say they should be condemned or otherwise. But general accusations like 'incompetent', worse still, 'corrupt' (for it can lend oneself to a lawsuit) without evidence, only makes matter worse. It doesn't help the current IBF Council in its work to project itself in the sports world, neither does it help world badminton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    But general accusations like 'incompetent', worse still, 'corrupt' (for it can lend oneself to a lawsuit) without evidence, only makes matter worse. It doesn't help the current IBF Council in its work to project itself in the sports world, neither does it help world badminton.
    I agree it doesn't help IBF, but its incompetence and willingness for internal political fights rather than general badminton interest are just facts.
    (I wasn't trying to help IBF on that one, though recognizing these facts would maybe help actually )

    Saying that IBF is not up to it doesn't please me, doesn't please you, doesn't please any badminton fan, it is just a simple and unfortunate observation.

    Obviously and luckily they have done many good and positive moves over the years.
    But quite a few decisions (or lack of) are disastrous and the worst of all is the constant messing about with the scoring system.
    The way things are done is really not serious, completely opaque and amateur-like I must say, and it ruins badminton's image...

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    Quote Originally Posted by seven
    I agree it doesn't help IBF, but its incompetence and willingness for internal political fights rather than general badminton interest are just facts.
    (I wasn't trying to help IBF on that one, though recognizing these facts would maybe help actually )

    Saying that IBF is not up to it doesn't please me, doesn't please you, doesn't please any badminton fan, it is just a simple and unfortunate observation.

    Obviously and luckily they have done many good and positive moves over the years.
    But quite a few decisions (or lack of) are disastrous and the worst of all is the constant messing about with the scoring system.
    The way things are done is really not serious, completely opaque and amateur-like I must say, and it ruins badminton's image...
    Enough said, you have your views and say. The proposal to try out the new scoring system seems to be your number hate obsession, its proponents and supporters can do no right and are to be cursed and condemned at every turn. Such gigantic distortions become huge mirrors for all to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Enough said, you have your views and say. The proposal to try out the new scoring system seems to be your number hate obsession, its proponents and supporters can do no right and are to be cursed and condemned at every turn. Such gigantic distortions become huge mirrors for all to see.
    I don't get what you mean?
    You are perfectly entitled to support the rally scoring system if you really think it is a major need for badminton.

    But until now I haven't read many arguments, which is the only thing I can be interested in.
    I have seen you post lots of "wait and see it's only a trial." "try it and you'll see it's good" etc but not many arguments.

    The only real list of arguments that I read was from Punch Gunalan and I must admit they really weren't convincing!
    (more like a "panic list" after seeing how badly his scoring system is perceived by fans).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    I said the IBF has gone forward and improved the world standing of badminton because of what I have seen over the last three or more years that I have been a member of this Forum.

    Perhaps the watershed year was 1992 when badminton first made its appearance at the Olympics. This was more than ten years ago, but what has the IBF done before that year? Someone should research into this and also find out who and from which country the IBF Council was comprised of in 1992. This committee should be congratulated for their hard work in publicizing badminton to the world on TV. For that was perhaps the first time that the world really got to see what an explosive game badminton was and still is. As the Olympics comes about only every 4 years, badminton has appeared only 4 times so far. Isn't this a pity when we know that the IBF was founded in 1934 and its pioneer members were all from the West. It took 58 years for badminton to be recognized by the Olympics!

    During the last few years, more of IBF grand prix events were televised and brought to the reaches of many more countries. Now, the IBF has even engaged a professional company to help them in this regard. I'm sure we will see positive results from this tie-up.

    But, I consider by far the most significant contribution by the past and present IBF Council is the setting up of the three International Training Centres to benefit young talents from the 'less-badminton-developed' countries, even from countries we hardly heard of not too long ago. What it means is that countries hitherto never counted as far as badminton goes, are now roped into the extended IBF family. The IBF must have enlarged its active membership during the last few years. And even the Olympic Council has recognized and approved two of these training centres for scholarship purposes.

    In Punch Gunalan's recent open letter to badminton fans, he has set out IBF Council's goals, action plans and the reasons for certain decisions, including the 21-point scoring system. Council members need to have a 'helicopter view' of things and a forward-looking vision to ensure that badminton keeps on improving and making its mark in international sports. They have other interested members to help them in the nitty-gritties. We should support their plans and give them positive feedback. We should also let them know when they have done a good job.

    Whether they wiil succeed in their goals is left to be seen. But reasonable time must be given to implement their plans. The fact that they are willing to discuss and make their plans transparent is already a great departure from the old IBF practice.

    As I've said, if someone could do some research, make comparisions, measure what the 'new' IBF has done against the 'old' IBF (say before 1992), then will we be able to truly say they should be condemned or otherwise. But general accusations like 'incompetent', worse still, 'corrupt' (for it can lend oneself to a lawsuit) without evidence, only makes matter worse. It doesn't help the current IBF Council in its work to project itself in the sports world, neither does it help world badminton.

    Good idea abt the rtesearch. In fact we should go back to 1988

    when it was a demo sport in Korea and Yang Yang won the first gold medal.

    Or even as far back as 1982 when IBF merged with WBF and China was allowed to participate.It was also abt the time when squash hit peak.

    I think the scoring system is mainly to siut TV broadcasters and audiences with limited budgets.

    I have heard rumours that for the very first time no one may want to sponsor the thomas Cup finals or World Champs if nothing is done to the scoring system.

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    Seven, please remember it requires 2/3 of the total votes to get the new scoring system passed, a near impossible threshhold. But should it be passed by the 2/3 majority, then the IBF Council is not half the idiot you repeatedly broadcast to the world. Also France has the maximum 5 votes. You should talk to them before they cast their votes the wrong side. What if France votes for the new system? Would you give up badminton?

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