Stiff and flexible

Discussion in 'Badminton Rackets / Equipment' started by May, Apr 26, 2001.

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  1. May

    May Guest

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    what's the difference???? How can a racquet be flexible???
     
  2. Byro-Nenium

    Byro-Nenium Regular Member

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    When the shaft can be more easily bent, its flexible. If its harder to bend, its stiff. I think thats about the simplest way to put it.

    Btw, i just saw another Ti-10 clone today with a super heavy head but the shaft was super flexible. It was literally rubber!!! You could bend it with 2 fingers!!!
     
  3. ari

    ari Guest

    it is actually the frame from what i know that makes it stiff,example ti frames are stiffer because it has added ti mesh...and for the shaft unless it is made of different composite,ultra high modulus graphite or others ,the flex will be slightly different
     
  4. shaun

    shaun Regular Member

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    flex actually refers to the SHAFT not the frame as ari has stated. All frames must be stiff because it has to sustain string tension.
    the only varing stiffness in a racquet is the shaft.
    the more flexible, the better for ppl who dont hit as hard because it will help u give a bit more power to the shot.
    a stiff shaft is for hard hitters who will overpower and therefore overflex the shaft too much on more flexible models.
     
  5. ari

    ari Guest

    so why price of extra stiff rackets more expensive?what makes a racket expensive,does a shaft makes a big difference in the price of a racket.if all rackets are stiff only at the shaft,why ti rackets so expensive and the ti mesh is just at 3 and 9 O' clock position?i believe the stiffness are at both the shaft and the frame
     
  6. May

    May Guest

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    Could u give me the name of one stiff and one flexible racquet????
     
  7. ari

    ari Guest

    go do your homework,visit yonex site
     
  8. shaun

    shaun Regular Member

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    dood, Ti doesnt make the racquet head stiffer.
    first of all, its a mesh...and second, its made of very thin strands of Ti.
    now u tell me, how on earth will this make the racquet head stiffer when the Ti is only put in small chunks and not even connected? The ti just wraps around a small part of the frame, it does the same as if u wrapped a peice of duct tape around the frame....does nothing.
    when ppl talk about stiffness, they refer to the shaft.
    becos u wont know the stiffness of the head...
    u feel the stiffness in the shaft when u hit...not the head.
     
  9. Dhitto

    Dhitto Guest

    Its the shaft.

    Well, reading in this forum has brought up some surprising misconceptions about material and structure.

    First of all, by stiffness, it is generally referred to the shaft. But reference to the frame isn't completely wrong. Just the relevence in context. The stiffer the shaft, the faster the response of the racket as the racket bends less when hitting, thus returning to its original shape faster. But problem is, it reduces also your 'contact' time. Thus makes soft touch control a little more difficult.

    For more flexy shafts, it does something else altogether. It allows for a longer contact as it 'bends' on contact. But may cause problems when you want accuracy in a drive or smash. But when you talk about delicate shots, it makes for beautiful control. Power wise, well depends a lot on your style of play. Whether you like the long stroke or the short stroke of hitting the shuttle. If you have a habit of hitting the shuttle late and low, unless you have Arnie's arms, you're better off taking something not so stiff. But if your general stroke is early and high contact, a stiff racket makes for better accuracy and there's only very marginal trade-in on control (touch).

    Ok as for the part on flexy frames, well there is a difference. If you tried Widebody rackets like when they came out years ago and compared to say a Carb 20 then you'll notice a difference.When you string at high tensions say 24lbs and more, the Widebody frames feel like a dud, but not the Carb 20. Why? Its inherant in the rigidity of the frame really. As string tension goes up enormously, the Widebody frame becomes all 'seized' up by the strings, thus, a very dead feel arises as it flexes with the strings. But the Carb frame is quite strong and rigid on its own and is thus not affected so badly by the string tension.


    These are mostly based on what I've studied and work on extensively at work and some based on my observations. Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  10. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    Re: Its the shaft.

    Dhitto: what u've said is correct. However,in the hand of advance players, stiff rackets can still give them control, well, enough what they needed. Correct string type and tension selection can help compensate or erase most of the weakness (control) of a stiff racket. Personally i prefer a stiff racket. However, not all stiff rackets are created equal. I have preference to only a few stiff racket.

    You said u studied and work on this subject at work, what line of work u do?

    cooler
     
  11. May

    May Guest

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    Re: Its the shaft.

    sori, but all this is confusing me. wat do u mean by hitting the shuttle late and low, Dhitto???
     
  12. Dhitto

    Dhitto Guest

    Hitting the shuttle.

    There's predominantly 2 styles of hitting the shuttle. One more for singles and the other typically practiced by doubles players. When they need to hit the shuttle quick with the minimal of movement and space. But it requires strong arms and wrists.

    Typically, and in any case, to correctly hit a shuttle, a player must hit the shuttle when it is between him/her and the net. Not when its directly overhead or when its passed overhead. But for singles players, typically they will hit it at the highest possible reach to minimise and conserve energy and also to control the games pace. But for doubles, usually due to the pace of the game, players need to hit the shuttle in a shorter frame of time even if its overhead to gain the advantage and often just to keep up. Thus, to achieve this, you need a shorter stroke, and hitting it late and low as most of the time its just to keep up. Can't really put a word to this, but if you observe how the best singles and doubles players take the strokes, especially for the drives, you'll see what I mean.

    Which is also partly why good doubles players of world class calibre tend to have a compact build or otherwise strong arms. If not their style of play does not fall into this category. An example would be the legendary Korean pairing of Park Joo Bong and Kim Mong Soo. Kim being the former and Park an extraordinary doubles player reknowned for his own deft style of player and seldom resorts to 'power' to overcome his opponents.


    Ok as for what I studied and what I do? I did mechanical engineering in university and I do mechanical design work, often dealing with structural design issues.
     
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  13. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    Re: Hitting the shuttle.

    that is more like civil engg to me.
     
  14. Dhitto

    Dhitto Guest

    Re: Hitting the shuttle.

    Nope, its very fundamental mechanics really. Civil applications were derived from this. In any, its hard to tell you in detail as its pretty technical and some stuff 'non-discloseable' ... my job scope that is.

    In any case, ask any decent final year mechanical engineering students these and he should be able to give you the same answers.
     
  15. Dhitto

    Dhitto Guest

    Material and structure.

    Ok to supplement what I've said, which was a little off your original query really. To vary the stiffness of a shaft/frame of a racket without varying its overall dimensions, it can be done either by changing the choice of materials used or in the case of carbon fibre, the way the shaft/structure is constructed/ aligned/ weaved.

    Carbon shafts are made using carbon fibre sheets bonded with a matrix(glue) and cured under heat and pressure. This weave has various possible alignments patterns, cross, parallel, interwoven etc, etc. Also, the fibre weave and the matrix can be made of differnet materials. The weave may also contain Kevlar, Vectran of the rage of the moment, titanium fillaments. These all embed different properties into the fibre weave depending on mix, alignment of fibres, curing compression, density ratio relative to the carbon etc, etc. Likewise, the matrix, the composition of the matrix can also determine how compact the carbon weave can be pressed and how pliable the overall shaft can be. These are all interlink, thus quite hard to describe in a short paragraph. A detailed explanation would take a 600 page university text.

    In short, by varying these possible parameters, it allows manufacturers to manipulate the stiffness as well as weight of a carbon structure. Thus, it is possible to have 2 identical looking and weighing rackets to behave completely differently.
     
  16. May

    May Guest

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    Re: Hitting the shuttle.

    I understand now. Btw, I use the second style.
     
  17. May

    May Guest

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    Re: Material and structure.

    ic, u sound like a professor.
     
  18. Dhitto

    Dhitto Guest

    No, not qualified to be one ...

    Just digging out some of the stuff I studied before under material properties and structure. Nothing in depth really. The actual process of doing it can be very intriguing if you have the time to experiment.

    Anyway, glad that my area of study can be put to good use here .. :)

    Hope I've been of help.
     
  19. Big L4

    Big L4 Regular Member

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    Stiff: gives more control since the moment of impact isn't delayed by the rackets bending, the timing is also easier to get. Professional players usually use rackets with a stiff flex because they're hard hitters.

    Flexible: gives more power thanks to the extra "whipping" we get thanks to the flexibility. Harder to control. Good for players with low power.
     
  20. sifuyono

    sifuyono Regular Member

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    This old thread back to life again.... hoahhh....
     
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