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  1. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddie76
    This may be an arduous fight, but I am prepared to quit badminton for good if I have to. I would hate to do this, but ultimately I cannot support a sport that's governed by dictators.
    No no, don't quit badminton! That will just make things worse. Better to simply ask whoever you play with to play with the regular system.

    Quote Originally Posted by baddie76
    Instead they chose not to notify anybody about the new scoring system being experimented and in the end voted for the for the unpopular system.
    Why did they do that?!

    Quote Originally Posted by baddie76
    I also plea that USA Badminton members who do not approve of the new system not to renew their membership. In addition, notify the organization the reason why you're not renewing your membership.
    word.

  2. #36
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    Default whattodo

    So I guess the big question now is what's the best approach to fight the new "approved" "official" rally-scoring?

    * Trying to get rid of IBF mgmt?
    * Prof.Players boycott (probably wont happen)
    * Petitions?
    * spectator/viewer boycott?
    * Starting an alternative prof. leauge? realistic?
    * Asking the big funders (Yonex and other manufacturers) for help to fight IBF-silliness??
    * Stop playing badminton (most radical )

    other options?

  3. #37
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    What a Bad day for Badminton ... We are undergoing rules that we totally reject .. how could we enjoy badminton as before ?!
    How a player would be able to catch up his opponent with 10 or more points between them ... so saad

  4. #38
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    i think the 21 points,if practised in africa is going to ruin the game for that part of the world,cos we have not achieved long rallies with side out let alone talk of running scores,our play is usually short cos we use nylon shuttlecocks and see feather only at international tournaments,anyway me particularly kinda like the new scoring system.

  5. #39
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddie76
    I think fans and supporters are the key to success in any sports. Badminton is no exception. If we can unite as a group to boycott the decision, there may be a chance that it will be reverted. If you continue to play despite the change, you're telling IBF that they can continue to "screw up" the sport in the future.
    To be frank and honest, I think it will be *very2 hard* for us badminton fans, fanatics, amateurs and supporters to all of a sudden stop supporting and not attend anymore IBF tournaments..Like nugroho and twobeer said, "what to do"??..
    However, IBF players can unite and voice their opinion, but only *IF* they are really serious abt it..
    But you are probably correct in your last sentence. By still supporting the new change, it opens up a chance for future "changes", whatever they are, and radical as it may be...
    Last edited by ctjcad; 05-07-2006 at 06:57 PM.

  6. #40
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    Default Which scoring system are you guys using now??..and prefer which one??..

    ..i don't know if this thread or topic or question has been brought up in BC forum before or not...i'm just wondering, which scoring system do you guys use now to play??..

  7. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad
    ..i don't know if this thread or topic or question has been brought up in BC forum before or not...i'm just wondering, which scoring system do you guys use now to play??..
    I have played 2 tournaments with the "old" 15x3 system and then 1 tournament with the "new" 21x3 rally point system...quite frankly I think I did better with the new system than the old one. The new one places more emphisis on consistancy and skill I find.

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    You mean it's difficult to understand gaining a point on each rally?
    no not that...it's easy to cheat on the point. since u have to keep track a lot of numbers and it's not guessable from the service change. at least I'm speaking about club level with no referee and on honor system i.e. call your own


    So about this scoring system, should we not post in the pro player system. but how strong a boycott will be? like the NHL? does pro badminton players have a union that can organized this?
    Last edited by Double_Player; 05-07-2006 at 10:37 PM.

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by smash_master
    I have played 2 tournaments with the "old" 15x3 system and then 1 tournament with the "new" 21x3 rally point system...quite frankly I think I did better with the new system than the old one. The new one places more emphisis on consistancy and skill I find.
    smash_master, thx for the reply...well, since you mentioned you feel the "new" scoring system "places more emphasis on consistancy and skill", does that mean, with the "old" scoring system it puts less emphasis on those 2 factors??..how abt the pace of the game??..

  10. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by samohtom
    I can't believe it...allowing people to score when it's not their serve changes the nature of the game so much. I really hope this doesn't get adopted by clubs, and gets thrown out at asap...
    Remember this happens to Table Tennis as well and it has been widely accepted!

  11. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxytdn
        有着逾百年历史的羽毛球运动14年前成为奥运大家庭一员后呈现出前所未有的发展势头,但参赛国家和 地区少和比赛时间长等老毛病一直困扰着该项运动的可持续发展,也面临着有可能被挤出奥运大 家庭的危机。

      为了鼓励更多的国家和地区开展羽毛球运动的积极性以及缩短比赛时间、吸引观众、开拓市场和有利电视转播 ,去年底国际羽联决定从今年2月起试行每球得分的21分为一局的三局两胜新赛制,试行期仅3个月。3个月来 ,21分制的规律虽然还没有被各队所掌握,但它的偶然性和抑强扶弱的特点在汤尤杯比赛中已体现出来,如 尤伯杯赛四强中没了老面孔韩国队,并首次出现了德国和中国台北队,荷兰队甚至历史性地首次打进了决赛。(完 )
    Whilst it is heartening to read the passion and argument presented in this thread by fellow members that are against the new 21 points rally system, we also need to look at the other side of the coin, i.e. from the organizer's point of view. In this regard, I think it is useful if I would translate the last 2 paragraphs of the original article posted by CXYTDN:

    ***
    Badminton, which has a history of over hundred years, has grown significantly since it became an official Olympics sports 14 years ago. However, the same old problems of lacking participating countries and long tournament duration are still persisting and hinder any sustainable longterm development of the sport. This may lead to a potential risk that badminton may be excluded from future Olympic games.

    To encourage more countries to participate in and regional development of the sport, as well as reducing tournament duration, attracting more spectators, opening new markets and benefit TV broadcasting; the IBF had decided last year to adopt the new best-of-three 21-points rally system from February 2006, for a trial period of 3 months. In these 3 months, although not every team has familiarised themselves with the new scoring system, it (the new scoring system) does reveal its characteristics of "high chance of upset" and in "helping the weaker team and restrint on the stronger team" in the current Uber and Thomas Cup tournament. For example, Korea has been excluded from the last 4 in the Uber Cup, replaced by German and Chinese Taipei for the first time; not to mention Holland making her historical debut in the final.
    ***

    So it is of no secret from IBF that they made their decision purely from a commercial angle. Putting aside our preference of 3x15 or 3x21, we cannot deny the fact that in order to attract big money and more live TV coverage on this game, those factors mentioned by IBF (which I highlighted in red) are keys. We cannot on one hand wanted the sports to gain more and wider recongnition and popular, but on the other ignore the commercial appealing factors that it has on the potential sponsor.

    In the old days, I recalled a major competition like TC or AE finals could last more than 5 hours. In the modern era when air times are at such a premium, this must be a nightmare for any organiser to sell the broadcasting right and say that it will last somewhere between 2 hours to 6 hours. It is just quite impossible. With 3x21, the duration is much more predictable.

    I agreed with what most of you who said that in 3x21, once you are behind by 5-6 points, it is quite difficult to come back and that take away the element of suspence and thrill of seeing a great come-from-behind victory. But if, in any way, the old scoring system is starting threatening the survival of our beloved sport in this commercial world, should we not give and take a little?

    For better or for worse, other sports are changing too. The other "serve-to-win-point" sport, i.e. Volleyball, has also gone into rally point few years ago. Badminton cannot simply just lag behind.

    One thing we all agree is that IBF could have done this in a better and less high-handed way by publicly put forward the challenges they are facing (with facts and figures) as well as the pros and cons of both systems, so that the badminton public (both the competitive and casual players and supporters) could digest this better.

    Anyway, the commerical impact and changes are not applicable to casual non-competitive players like many of us here - so there is no stopping us to continue to use the 3x15 systems in our weekly sessions as long as we like.

    Cheers

  12. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad
    smash_master, thx for the reply...well, since you mentioned you feel the "new" scoring system "places more emphasis on consistancy and skill", does that mean, with the "old" scoring system it puts less emphasis on those 2 factors??..how abt the pace of the game??..
    Well when you look at it since a point is gained every time a rally ends and since either side can get it you have to make sure that you win it. This does make the consistancy needed more, you have to keep the rally alive longer and force them into make a mistake or to win the rally yourself. This does not mean you cannot use power though. The pace of the game well it doesnt really change just depends on how confident you are in your skill to pull out the big shots. With the older scoring system there is still the same amount of consistancy ad skill needed but the pressure is not as great I feel. Oh well thats just my 2 cents.

  13. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer
    So I guess the big question now is what's the best approach to fight the new "approved" "official" rally-scoring?

    * Trying to get rid of IBF mgmt?
    * Prof.Players boycott (probably wont happen)
    * Petitions?
    * spectator/viewer boycott?
    * Starting an alternative prof. leauge? realistic?
    * Asking the big funders (Yonex and other manufacturers) for help to fight IBF-silliness??
    * Stop playing badminton (most radical )

    other options?
    Very difficult indeed!

    In response to your suggestions:
    1. Probably the most effective if you are ambitious enough to first take control of your country's Badminton Assn and then with like-minded comrades in the other member countries capture the IBF Council!

    2. Yes it is very unreasonable to ask the pros to boycott as it is their livelihood. Furthermore, not every pro hate the new system, some even like it.

    3. To have some effect petitions should come from IBF member countries.

    4. To obtain boycotts from spectators and viewers is even more difficult as badminton watching is a form of entertainment to them and the intense spectacle is what they want on TV. Too long rallies and matches lasting over an hour or two may make it boring for the viewer/spectator. The new system enables the newcomer understand the scoring better, so it seems.

    5. Starting a new league or creating a new organization to rival IBF takes a lot of time, money and resources. Who will want to lead? There were two rival world badminton organizations before but for the good of the game they decided to merge.

    6. One reason for the new system appears to be at the request of sponsors to have matches lasting shorter instead of longer so that they could advertise their goods and services through TV commercials.

    7. Badminton is our game, for better or for worse. We find joy, entertainment, good exercise, social interaction, etc, in playing the game. Would not be a good idea to stop playing unless you have a better option to spend your time. Amongst our own circle of badminton friends, if we really wanted to remain as before, we can still play the 3x15 system.

    8. As for myself, I will continue to play whatever system that is required for that particular occasion.

  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by smash_master
    Well when you look at it since a point is gained every time a rally ends and since either side can get it you have to make sure that you win it. This does make the consistancy needed more, you have to keep the rally alive longer and force them into make a mistake or to win the rally yourself. This does not mean you cannot use power though. The pace of the game well it doesnt really change just depends on how confident you are in your skill to pull out the big shots. With the older scoring system there is still the same amount of consistancy ad skill needed but the pressure is not as great I feel. Oh well thats just my 2 cents.
    I agree with you.

    In the recent Thomas Cup competition, just try to recollect/replay those images, the intensity of the rallies, the mounting attacks and risk taking, the sliced angled shots, subtle net plays and the element of suspense/excitement of the following matches:

    1. Lin Dan versus Peter Gade
    2. Chan Chong Ming/KKKk versus Jens Eriksen/Martin Lungaard (If I've not forgotten one game went to 29-27, almost the limit of 30 points allowed!)

    I suppose the players have to go all out to win at the very start and when they are the first to reach 17 points, they need to bring up their attacks a notch higher. In the words of Lin Dan, "I tried to increase the speed of my shuttle at the last stage of each game".

    Their rivals will try to close ithe gap whenever possible, but even the very experienced Danish World No. 1 doubles pair completely lost their concentration in the rubber game to allow the young Malaysians to demolish them. The bubble really burst for the the Danes. Who would have imagined that Malaysia lost all its three singles matches and Denmark, all two of their doubles?

    Exciting stuff!

  15. #49
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Some of Linus' post snipped for brevity..
    Linus, thanks for your extended explanation of the article.
    Actually there's another thread in the Thomas & Uber Cup forum which touched on this subject also..I just want to make some similar comments to your post, if you don't mind..
    Quote Originally Posted by Linus
    To encourage more countries to participate in and regional development of the sport, as well as reducing tournament duration, attracting more spectators, opening new markets and benefit TV broadcasting; the IBF had decided last year to adopt the new best-of-three 21-points rally system from February 2006, for a trial period of 3 months. In these 3 months, although not every team has familiarised themselves with the new scoring system, it (the new scoring system) does reveal its characteristics of "high chance of upset" and in "helping the weaker team and restrint on the stronger team" in the current Uber and Thomas Cup tournament. For example, Korea has been excluded from the last 4 in the Uber Cup, replaced by German and Chinese Taipei for the first time; not to mention Holland making her historical debut in the final.
    yes, the former is possible. However, as for the latter, i doubt it will happen. Sure, it's true 3 of the 4 Semifinalists, mentioned above, were surprised teams. Their surprised appearances as Semifinalist *could be* related to the new scoring system change. However, at the end, it was no different as China won 3-0 to defend their Cup. As for the Thomas Cup, 4 of the top countries made the Semifinals, as there were no surprises. But at the end China again was able to defend their Cup.
    In the old days, I recalled a major competition like TC or AE finals could last more than 5 hours. In the modern era when air times are at such a premium, this must be a nightmare for any organiser to sell the broadcasting right and say that it will last somewhere between 2 hours to 6 hours. It is just quite impossible. With 3x21, the duration is much more predictable.
    Don't tell Mr. Gunalan about how long 2 of the UBER Cup Semifinals matches took place..Maybe this will only happen in team events, not so much in individual events, but IMO, i highly doubt the scoring system change will change much of the time duration.
    I agreed with what most of you who said that in 3x21, once you are behind by 5-6 points, it is quite difficult to come back and that take away the element of suspence and thrill of seeing a great come-from-behind victory. But if, in any way, the old scoring system is starting threatening the survival of our beloved sport in this commercial world, should we not give and take a little?
    Do you think or feel, using the old scoring system was really a "threat" for the survival of badminton in the commercial world??..
    For better or for worse, other sports are changing too. The other "serve-to-win-point" sport, i.e. Volleyball, has also gone into rally point few years ago. Badminton cannot simply just lag behind.
    Sure, other sports have "changed" and "evolved" also. But the game of badminton is still what it is. Non-knowledgeable people will still not change their mindset of the game of Badminton. I just feel changing the scoring system again, for the sake of gaining commercialization, wasn't going to be the big "clincher"..
    One thing we all agree is that IBF could have done this in a better and less high-handed way by publicly put forward the challenges they are facing (with facts and figures) as well as the pros and cons of both systems, so that the badminton public (both the competitive and casual players and supporters) could digest this better.
    Yes, agree and definitely shouldn't have to sacrifice the scoring system. Didn't they attempt the same thing about 4 yrs. ago??..
    Anyway, the commerical impact and changes are not applicable to casual non-competitive players like many of us here - so there is no stopping us to continue to use the 3x15 systems in our weekly sessions as long as we like.

    Cheers
    hmm, so what does this mean??..Does this mean, there's now 2-ways to play/score the game?? And that both scoring systems(old and new) are still valid no matter what??..If so, will badminton become the 1st and only sport in the world to have 2 valid and legit scoring systems??..And if this new scoring system is accepted and used for quite sometime and then IBF decides to make another scoring change, will badminton have 3 types of valid and legit scoring systems??..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 05-08-2006 at 03:07 AM.

  16. #50
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smash_master
    Well when you look at it since a point is gained every time a rally ends and since either side can get it you have to make sure that you win it. This does make the consistancy needed more, you have to keep the rally alive longer and force them into make a mistake or to win the rally yourself. This does not mean you cannot use power though. The pace of the game well it doesnt really change just depends on how confident you are in your skill to pull out the big shots. With the older scoring system there is still the same amount of consistancy ad skill needed but the pressure is not as great I feel. Oh well thats just my 2 cents.
    hmm, i see...so basically in comparing between the 2 scoring systems, the only difference is, there is more pressure playing with the new scoring system??..how about in terms of freely utilizing and performing your skills and shot selections in trying to get the points, knowing one needs to make less self-error(s)??..

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    Do you think or feel, using the old scoring system was really a "threat" for the survival of badminton in the commercial world??..
    Replying to CTJCAD:

    To be honest, yes I do. It is a fact that for each Olympic there is a continous drive to limit the number of sports to cut cost. Obviously the sports that get included will be the ones that are highly popular and could get the large majority support from the committee members. Not to mention the huge influence some of the major sponsors would have on the decision. If badminton is to only be enjoyed by only with a selected group of countries, then yes it will risk being voted out.

    So from this angle, the appearance of German, Holland and Chinese Taipei in the Uber Cup last 4 is a good sign. Yes at the end China won hands down as we have expected, but dont you think just being there, winning Silver and Bronze in a major event like Uber Cup give these countries something to cheer about and indeed some hope for the younger shuttlers back home? I think the result is positive in that way - it give them hope, probably not winning the gold but give the traditional strong teams a good run for their money.

    Looking at the major events, the price money is monkey compare to other sports. Name me a major global reconisable corporate name (besides Yonex) that winning to sponsor a major 5 or 6 stars events? Hardly any.

    What sustain some of the badminton powerhouses to continue badminton development is the chance to bring national glory in event like Olympic to put the nation name on a world map. I believe there is a fair amount of public money being pump into it relative to commercial sponsorship - in longer term, this may not be sustainable. I cannot imagine what would happen to the body of badminton in the likes of Indonesia, Malaysia (or dare I mention Singapore) if badminton is no longer a event in future Olympic.

    I am not saying 3x21 is good, but it does allow badminton to evolve in this commercial driven sports arena. It may even allows it to survive.

    Cheers

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