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  1. #69
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Exposing the game to the public-tapping the U.S. market

    I understand from reading all the news and articles, that the "only" main purpose of the S.S.(scoring system) change is for marketability and as Mr. Gunalan has said "to make badminton the #1 racket sport in the world"..And i know our "veteran/senior" members in here (Loh, taneepak, Cheung to name a few) are quite supportive of the S.S. change)
    But i wonder, how to make it "popular" if the game is not being televised and broadcast esp. in the U.S. market. Personally, the reason why you see tennis is so "popular" is because it is being broadcast and shown on reg. tv networks/cable networks, esp. here in the U.S.. No matter what kind of rule changes or how many or how drastic a S.S. changes IBF wants to do, i don't think badminton can be as "popular" as it is if it is not being broadcasted and televised on major U.S. networks or cable companies...IMO, that's how the game gets more and more exposure and "popular"..
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    The sport needs to evolve just as other sports do and have done. As for playing two different scoring systems, tennis must have a bigger variety of scoring systems. They play 3 or 5 sets, 5th set might be a tie break or you have to win by two clear games for that 5th set. As another example of tennis evolving, I see they've done away with the break after the 1st game.
    hmm, sure in tennis the S.S. has evolved and can vary with either 3 or 5 sets. Now, i'm not an avid follower of tennis nor am i knowledgeable in the history of S.S. of tennis, but the "basic" element of the S.S. has basically stay roughly the same for quite a long time. Unlike this "drastic" change as we have in the current badminton S.S.(from serve-based to rally based, i think that's quite a change). IMO, IBF can still keep the "old" S.S. of 3x15, but maybe add some break time in between, or maybe not allow a set to occur, just end it at 15. Or something else..?!?!..
    Another consideration is, do we let the feelings of a minority restrict the progress of the game?
    hmm, if so, if everyone accepts this "new" S.S.(3x21) and it goes on for a while and then IBF changes it again to who knows what kind of S.S. in the future, how will the current people who have embraced the "new"(3x21) S.S. say??..I think the real "progress" of the game is if they finally show these games live or delayed on reg. tv networks or cable networks, esp. in U.S.(just like they did in Olympics and World Championships last yr)..
    All in all, I think if a minority don't want to change to the new system, that's fine with them. But they shouldn't think their personal opinion and preference are necessarily correct. These are the people that will get left behind in the process of change.
    hmm, i don't think the "minority of people who don't want to change to the new system" think that "their personal opinion and preference are necessarily correct". It is an opinion and rightfully their opinion, just like those "majority" who are supporting the system change have their own opinion. Do you expect all of us baddie fans/supporters to just shake our head in agreement and just follow what is being presented?? Without having any freedom of expression or thought??..I think this is true also of the players, as i know ZN and XXF as well as LD and Taufik do not favor it, not sure if they now change their minds. Peter Gade initially did not favor it, but later changed his mind. I guess the 2 CHN WS and LD, Taufik who are not in favor will "get left behind"??..
    IMHO, it doesn't make too much difference. Scoring is simplified - that's great for the casual observer. Games are not shortened by a great amount. Ladies singles have to play longer giving us political correctness. Unpredictability gives the game more of an edge to the unintiated spectator. More importantly, I think it is better than the the 5 x 7 system!!
    Hmm, maybe true to all of those you mentioned..Scoring might be "simplified", but i thought it was "simple" already??..BTW, why was 5x7 abolished so quickly by IBF??..Were you guys who are currently supporting the "new" S.S. change also did not agree with the 5x7 S.S.??..
    I guess time will tell, and we shall wait and see by the time World Championship rolls around and IBF will make another gage of how the public has "embraced" this change and if the game has really grown in "popularity"..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 05-09-2006 at 02:23 PM.

  2. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    If we review what have been said about the new scoring system in BC, from the beginning to now, the initially negative, very loud, and almost hostile torrent of words against the new system have now become more muted. Do we look a little foolish now? Some have even threatened to give up the game. For the life of me, why? Over a mere change in scoring system? Now that it has been finally decided, let us close ranks and do what we ought to do-continue playing the beautiful game, badminton, but using the new 3 x 21 rally system.
    Just because the IBF council made the 21x3 official, doesn't make it any better.

    It's still a sissifying of the game we love, and WON'T lead to ANY increased TV-airtime or postive effects compared to what IBF could achieve with the traditional 15x3 scoring.

    It's even logical to argue that shorter games most likely lead to less air-time (compared to longer games).

    we all know that a majority of this forum prefers 15x3 scoring, so why should we "close ranks" and support something that isnt good

    Next step will be Punch introducing Mavis 350 plastic shuttels as official tournament shuttles.. and get this trough the IBF council... I guess you suggest we should "close ranks" and promote this "new fresh badminton game" with plastics and so on..

    Just becuase some older over-the-hill managers of an organisations thinks something is right..doesn't make it "right"...

    And knowing something is very wrong and still not trying to do anything about it.. isn't good.... History has proven that on many occasions..

    So my main concern would be how to make IBF revert back to 15x3. Maybe it has to wait until they/we get rid of Punch.. Or maybe Punch will get wiser when he vakes up a year from know realizing that the score change wasn't the holy grail that made badminton popularity grow exponetially through the roof!!!

    It feels frustrating that a small number of people in the badminton world pushes through rule changes that they know a large mjority of players doesn't want or outright oppose!!

    Personally I am starting to think badminton needs something new instead of IBF.. It seems like IBF is doing more harm than good to the sport.. (little marketing, poor web presense, stupid rule changes, internal corruption, limited sponsorship and prize money etc etc)... Maybe IBF IS the PROBLEM!!

    /Twobeer

  3. #71
    Regular Member maa2003's Avatar
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    with this system, no more typical player with stamina and endurance.
    only players with killing smash will win.

    you can not find anymore player as like Icuk Sugiarto with phantom badminton ....

    Taufik can beat Lin Dan due to his very strong stamina and endurance, when it came to rally point, just "ampun" (= my goodness) from Taufik's mouth.

    I played mostly double ......... so with this system :
    - no more 2nd serve
    - serve can be done from "left"
    very headache ........ but have to try ......

  4. #72
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    Where everyone is getting it wrong, is that the MAJORITY dislike the change and only a small portion(the MINORITY) favor the change. You can't have an 80% minority, unless you're just being lamely sarcastic or are acting awfully dull.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsumaranai
    Where everyone is getting it wrong, is that the MAJORITY dislike the change and only a small portion(the MINORITY) favor the change. You can't have an 80% minority, unless you're just being lamely sarcastic or are acting awfully dull.
    And are you dull enough to believe that anyone can be that stupid?

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsumaranai
    Where everyone is getting it wrong, is that the MAJORITY dislike the change and only a small portion(the MINORITY) favor the change. You can't have an 80% minority, unless you're just being lamely sarcastic or are acting awfully dull.
    tsk,tsk... wit a waste...

  7. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad
    Tsumaranai, you brought up a very interesting point...And IMO, it is a very "powerful" approach in promoting the sport...With this said, i was wondering, is it possible if IBF and ESPN/ESPN2 sign somekind of a contract(1-2 yr. is good) to televise live broadcast of IBF "bigger" events?ie. Thomas and Uber Cup, Sudirman Cup, Olympics and World Championships to begin with..Rather than thru broadband web..I mean why can't ESPN broadcast those events live or delayed??..Have it scheduled on ESPN for people to watch, even for 1-2 hrs...For example, i know CNBC did attempt it 2 yrs. ago in the Olympics and last yr's attempt by ESPN to broadcast the World Championship was a good start..Why not continue it further??..BTW, i don't know if anyone noticed, but i noticed in the recent Thomas & Uber Cup, i thought i saw Charmaine Reid doing interviews with players at the end of some matches like she did in last yr's WC, if not sorry, maybe i'm seeing things..

    We all know badminton is already popular in Asia and some part of Europe, but why not have the game exposed more to the U.S. public??...Especially considering a way to popularize the game in the U.S...Imagine us fans living in the U.S./North or South American continent getting a cable broadcast of the Thomas & Uber Cup, rather than thru broadband web??...If for just for 1-2 hrs, let it be, the rating migh start slowly, but it's a start??..I mean, if they can broadcast live poker tournaments, why can't they broadcast badminton(which probably has much more following that poker)??..Isn't U.S. basically the commercial capital of the world and an oasis for badminton to become popular??..
    Badminton and ESPN?? Pfft. Even magic the gathering gets shown on ESPN2. PWNED? No?

  8. #76
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    If this is true and 21 points is here to stay, then we should all try to get used to it. Coz once they change at the grass-root level, the new young batch of players will have never known the 15 points system..... and like us, will NOT want to play it instead of their 21 points they are used to..... unless IBF changes it back... but not likely

  9. #77
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    TV is for suckers.
    As for the rule change, I don't see the point. If it makes the game better to play, good. If not, it's crap. I havn't spent much time on the 21 point system myself to make that call yet.
    As for hoping TV exposure will popularize the sport, who cares? Badminton is already a very popular sport around the world. So what's the point?
    Big sponsors, more money, more what? More pro leagues?
    Does anyone really want a badminton league equal to the NHL, NBA, or MLB? Or even be on the road to getting to that point? It's all become souless. No devotion to anything but money. We've watched all the great badminton players fight for their flag throughout their careers; blood sweat and tears. I don't think it would be better if they were in a position to take a better offer from the "New York Shuttlers" or the "Hong Kong Smash Kings" and moved around from team to team like so many pro atheletes do these days.
    Amateur sport or just under radar is where its at.
    F%^& pro sport. I could care less about it. If you love it, good, I'm happy.

    I'm off to the courts now. I'll play some 21 games, and some 15 games. I'm sure i'll have a good time.

  10. #78
    Regular Member wilfredlgf's Avatar
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    *Nandeyanen!

    The 21-point system is the wrong direction to take. Take the finals for example - muscle had triumphed over brains, it was actually boring! Except for those who won of course.

    I had been thinking about it, IBF could actually sanction tournaments of different scoring systems, similar to that of golf. Some could do the old 15-pt system, while others could follow the new 21-points. Gives an extra dimension to badminton, making it a lot more challenging and fair to both kinds of players, adding some variety to the game.

    *Sorry, been watching a lot of animes of late.

  11. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkinJapan
    TV is for suckers.
    As for the rule change, I don't see the point. If it makes the game better to play, good. If not, it's crap. I havn't spent much time on the 21 point system myself to make that call yet.
    As for hoping TV exposure will popularize the sport, who cares? Badminton is already a very popular sport around the world. So what's the point?
    Big sponsors, more money, more what? More pro leagues?
    Does anyone really want a badminton league equal to the NHL, NBA, or MLB? Or even be on the road to getting to that point? It's all become souless. No devotion to anything but money. We've watched all the great badminton players fight for their flag throughout their careers; blood sweat and tears. I don't think it would be better if they were in a position to take a better offer from the "New York Shuttlers" or the "Hong Kong Smash Kings" and moved around from team to team like so many pro atheletes do these days.
    Amateur sport or just under radar is where its at.
    F%^& pro sport. I could care less about it. If you love it, good, I'm happy.

    I'm off to the courts now. I'll play some 21 games, and some 15 games. I'm sure i'll have a good time.
    What you say has many good point and truths in it.... but it really make me said when the badminton champions take home only a few thousand dollars for winning the whole 6 or 7 star tournaments, when they deserve just as much as say tennis, golf and other professional athelete, as they train just as hard if not harder.

    Its really sad when young new prospects or kids with potential are discouraged from training playing badminton full time as their parents or coaches can't gurantee them a future, just ask any pros, sponsors for badminton players just not as good as other sports.

    For us, badminton addicts, its annoying for me almost all other sports gets LIVE coverage due to the money they attract but badminon coverage is often delayed or none at all... and why is it getting badminton supply and equipment so difficult in some parts of this world? coz not popular i guess.

    Although not ideal, we do not live in a perfect world and MONEY really matters. I support IBF, yonex, Gosen or any large organisation doing whatever that will increase the popularity of the sport, so be it if that include having scantily dressed cheer leaders or break dancers between games in 2005 world championship or changing badminton apparel to singlets in Thomas cup 2006, or the 21 points system. Good luck.

  12. #80
    Regular Member cxytdn's Avatar
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    Default [IBF NEWS]21 rally-point scoring system - 100% decision

    Annual General Meeting

    8 May 2006

    The IBF held its Annual General Meeting in Tokyo on 6 May 2006. The meeting was held in conjunction with the Yonex Thomas Uber Cup Japan 2006
    Of the many points of discussion on the main agenda, the President of the IBF Dr. Jang Young Joong confirmed that all effort will be made to promote the sport of badminton and the goal of the IBF is for badminton to become the world’s No.1 racquet sport by the year 2013.

    The AGM also reached a unanimous decision to permanently implement the new 21 rally-point scoring system.

    Since May last year, many member nations have been experimenting with this new scoring system and have submitted positive reports. With this unanimous decision, it will now be played in all IBF World Ranking tournaments including the Beijing 2008 Olympics.

    “We are happy that we have the 100 percent support of all the member nations to adopt this new scoring system. There were only requests that this should not be a short term measure and the Council will definitely respect the wishes of its members,” said Punch Gunalan, IBF Deputy President.

    The 21 rally point scoring system has been reported as having many advantages to players as well as to the fans and media, making it a desirable scoring system for the promotion of the sport.

    “When played according to the 21 rally point system, the duration of the game becomes more predictable and this is an advantage to the media especially television media as live telecast matches are easier to schedule. So far, airtime sales have risen considerably since this new scoring system has been used,” said Gunalan.

    Sponsors are also becoming more attracted to the game while spectators are finding it exciting and easier to understand. With the old scoring system, the duration of the game was longer and physically more strenuous to most players, whereas the new rally point scoring system is less demanding and less injuries have been reported.

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    Yes, we've been discussing this for two days now in another thread.

  14. #82
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Merge thread

    ^^Mods might want to merge this thread in the other thread??..

  15. #83
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Badminton needs TV coverage, with whatever means, in the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkinJapan
    As for hoping TV exposure will popularize the sport, who cares? Badminton is already a very popular sport around the world. So what's the point?
    .."Badminton is already a very popular sport around the world"??..hmm, but i thought Mr. Gunalan and his cohorts want "badminton to become the world’s No.1 racquet sport by the year 2013"??..see thread
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...ad.php?t=32947

    how will that happen if there's NO LIVE TV or CABLE coverage none whatsoever to show it to the rest of the world??..Except only thru a few media outlet (mostly from Asia and few from Europe) and thru broadband webTV??..And if they are broadcasting them, they will only show it to certain parts of the world..Imagine tennis, golf, sure they are popular as well, but what if there aren't any live coverage(whether thru TV or cable networks), how will people get exposed to the game??..Seemed like IBF never think there's a very massive land called America/U.S., which is basically the commercial capital in the world??..why haven't IBF invest its time and money more to popularize it in the U.S.??..

  16. #84
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEND.
    Badminton and ESPN?? Pfft. Even magic the gathering gets shown on ESPN2. PWNED? No?
    hmm, well, if there's little or zero chance ESPN or ESPN2 will show it at all, then i think IBF better find another solluble way to make it "the #1 racket sport in the world"...Why? The game NEEDS exposure, "Big time exposure", and it has to, mainly, grab the U.S. market..The Asians/some Europeans countries already embraced and know it and it's already very popular..Except, personally, i doubt it'll be "the #1 racket sport in the world" if U.S./American market never embrace it..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 05-10-2006 at 01:30 PM.

  17. #85
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eizmed
    Although not ideal, we do not live in a perfect world and MONEY really matters. I support IBF, yonex, Gosen or any large organisation doing whatever that will increase the popularity of the sport, so be it if that include having scantily dressed cheer leaders or break dancers between games in 2005 world championship or changing badminton apparel to singlets in Thomas cup 2006, or the 21 points system. Good luck.
    Hmm, concur and all those are "attempts"(ie. including the modification of the scoring system) by IBF to market the game, but how will it be exposed if there's no TV or Cable coverage of the sport to *the rest of the world*??..Even soccer in the U.S. gets shown almost *everyweek* in some Latin or Spanish channels(ie. esp. in Souther California). That's how it's supposed to be done. What about badminton??..Let's not go so far as requesting ESPN to broadcast the games, will small international tv channels in the U.S. show any badminton let alone the big IBF events??..

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