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Thread: Taufik Hidayat

  1. #630
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    If that actually happens, INA won't have a single singles player who can confidently say they are good for a SS title. And that's where the problem is!

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    Regular Member phaarix's Avatar
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    Sony and Simon have both won SS haven't they (I think Sony has won about 3?)?

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    with what consistency?

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    Well I suppose I haven't seen much of either of them lately... But Sony is quite dependable. I mean yeah, I think even now Taufik is still the better player overall between them... well... especially now :P. So good to see he can go the full distance (in terms of number of matches) in back to back events.

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    If the prospect of winning medal is higher and more consistent with HS, then let it be. I mean, TH is not a consistent MS player anyway plus its time for new comers to take his place. I hope SDK and SS can improve a little bit better, that will take some pressure off TH's shoulders

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    so ss n sony playing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    If the prospect of winning medal is higher and more consistent with HS, then let it be. I mean, TH is not a consistent MS player anyway plus its time for new comers to take his place. I hope SDK and SS can improve a little bit better, that will take some pressure off TH's shoulders
    too bad that SDK and SS now struggling with injure...
    hmm Simon has reached world no 3,9 weeks ago..but injure and skip 4 super series and 1 gp gold tourney,that cause him became rank no 12 now
    i put big hope for Simon.
    hope he quickly recover from injure

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    What do you mean by "truly tired"? TH got 19 pts because JOJ is not a top level player, JOJ is still at least half a level below TH. If TH were fresh he should be able to beat JOJ easily in DO final (especially considering JOJ was quite nervous in the final -- if TH were fresh he should be able to take advantage of it).

    JOJ's loss to DPY is normal. Even though JOJ now has a SS title, he is still at the same level as DPY, Tago, etc. Considering JOJ may be celebrating during the few days between the two events, it's just reasonable that he lost to DPY in 3 games.

    As to "young" and "willing to run", let's compare TH's main opponents in the two tournaments. BP is 28, Persson is 26 (not to say with injury); Tago, DPY, JOJ are all like 21-22. Clear difference, right? And it's also clear from watching the match that BP was NOT willing to run -- whenever TH tried to catch a breath, BP was taking a rest too (28 vs 29, what do you expect... They are not LD and LCW).

    Anyway, it is clear to me that TH was tired in DO final, judging from the way he played/moved on court, just like it is clear that JOJ was nervous during the first half of game 1 (if he was facing LD, it would be a massacre as LD would be able to take advantage of it and JOJ would get more and more nervous during the match), and it is clear that Persson was suffering from injury during the FO final.

    Let's face it. No matter how hard he trains, today's TH needs some luck to win a SS title. In DO he was unlucky, in FO he was lucky. IMHO, TH today is no stronger than TH in AE 2008. Not to say the TH before that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..since you can't follow, here's my take. You can or don't have to subscribe:
    - Despite the loss, TH got 19 pts in both games in the Denmark Open MS Final. If TH was truly tired in that Final, he probably would've scored less pts.
    - If TH was truly tired, he probably would've lost in one of the earlier rounds of the French Open SS. Sure, there were 2 days of non-action, but imo, that 2 days off wouldn't affect him much. OTOH, JOJ, a much younger player, who probably has better fitness than TH, lost in one of the earlier rounds of the French Open. So, comparing the 2 players, who was probably tired?..
    - I don't know how you define "young" and "willing to run". But the way i see it, all of TH's opponents in both tourneys are younger than him..
    - I will give the level and type of opponents (in both tourneys) as a consideration to TH's success/failure in the last 2 tourneys....but tired???..
    Last edited by ye333; 11-10-2010 at 09:43 AM.

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    From what I remember of the DO fnals, JOJ beat TH at net play at critical points. "Beat TH at net play?" you might ask?!! I feel one reason could be some certain amount or type of fatigue, which results in an inaccurate and inconsistent touch.

    As for the FO finals, TH has a huge psychological edge over JP. So even if JP were in top physical form (which sadly, he wasn't) I would still give TH a big margin of certainty in winning. I noticed his smashes were just not as sharp overall, in that match; yet he won comfortably. Joss. Karma.

    I also am a big believer that certain places and arenas offer different vibes to certain players. Like the FO venue has been good for TH, and he flourishes there. You can see it in the body language. In the Semis he was just so enjoying himself and the atmosphere, I saw him actually clowning around after a few points! OTOH, no matter how hard he tries in Birmingham, he always seems to have this monkey on his back, there! It's like he's always just waiting for the inevitable person (PG, LCW?) to come along and throw him out of that arena!

    But until that happens, he puts up one helluva fight! Say what else you want, but he has proved to be a huge inspiration and source of joy to millions around the world.

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    Actually in FO final, from what I see, most of the time JP totally dominated the net.

    The difference is that, when TH is fresh and sharp, he utilizes the net area, but does not totally rely on the net area. On the other hand, when TH has stamina problem, he over-plays his netshots which leads to easy points on a lucky day but easy points for opponents when he is not lucky.

    One example of the latter is that starting 2007, after one long long rally, TH usually tries to play tight netshots for easy points. Both LD and LCW have been taking advantage of this. Watch 2007 French Open vs LD or 2008 AE vs LCW and you will know what I mean.

    What happened in FO final is different. At first TH tried to dominate the net. But then he quickly realized that JP's touch is just too good that day, and played less netshots. Then, near the end of the match, when JP was slower, frustrated and disappointed, TH again focused on netshots. This time JP was no match.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    From what I remember of the DO fnals, JOJ beat TH at net play at critical points. "Beat TH at net play?" you might ask?!! I feel one reason could be some certain amount or type of fatigue, which results in an inaccurate and inconsistent touch.

    As for the FO finals, TH has a huge psychological edge over JP. So even if JP were in top physical form (which sadly, he wasn't) I would still give TH a big margin of certainty in winning. I noticed his smashes were just not as sharp overall, in that match; yet he won comfortably. Joss. Karma.

    I also am a big believer that certain places and arenas offer different vibes to certain players. Like the FO venue has been good for TH, and he flourishes there. You can see it in the body language. In the Semis he was just so enjoying himself and the atmosphere, I saw him actually clowning around after a few points! OTOH, no matter how hard he tries in Birmingham, he always seems to have this monkey on his back, there! It's like he's always just waiting for the inevitable person (PG, LCW?) to come along and throw him out of that arena!

    But until that happens, he puts up one helluva fight! Say what else you want, but he has proved to be a huge inspiration and source of joy to millions around the world.

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    yes taufik is daring in the net

    when its good he gets easy point and you all can say luck

    but when its loose he runs a lot especially denmark open

    it wasn't like him to loose out in the net to joj!

  12. #641
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    What do you mean by "truly tired"? TH got 19 pts because JOJ is not a top level player, JOJ is still at least half a level below TH. If TH were fresh he should be able to beat JOJ easily in DO final (especially considering JOJ was quite nervous in the final -- if TH were fresh he should be able to take advantage of it).
    ...
    Anyway, it is clear to me that TH was tired in DO final, judging from the way he played/moved on court, just like it is clear that JOJ was nervous during the first half of game 1 (if he was facing LD, it would be a massacre as LD would be able to take advantage of it and JOJ would get more and more nervous during the match), and it is clear that Persson was suffering from injury during the FO final.
    ...
    - So, basically you're not giving credit to JOJ for his game plan (lucky or not) and smart thinking during the match?..From what i saw, he played some clever shots by injecting fast attacking shots which threw TH off a bit and forced him to be defensive. Overall, JOJ was sharper throughout the game, including the net game. OTOH, Taufik just didn't have it consistently (either unlucky with his strings breaking 2x and a few long lifts which turned into give away pts). Further, in a few parts of the match, he seemed to lose focus. But certainly he didn't look tired to me.
    Regarding "If TH were fresh he should be able to beat JOJ easily in DO final" , if you don't know, JOJ beat TH prior to their Denmark Open MS Final match in one of the earlier rounds of the M'sia Open. See: http://bwf.tournamentsoftware.com/sp...4938&match=258 (don't tell me TH was tired also)..
    So, i'm sure JOJ knew and was already prepared to play Taufik coming into their DO Final.
    - As for Taufik being tired, sorry, you can stay with your opinion. But from what i saw in the match, Taufik was still launching his smashes well into the 2nd game and was still moving/running around and retrieving shuttles... Further, Taufik went all the way to the Final of the French Open, even if he played against players you think are not "willing to run" (TH faced JP also in the DO)..
    Now, if the scenario was Taufik playing in the Final Rd. of 2 consecutive tourneys and were to lose in the 2nd tourney, then i'd consider fatigue/being tired as a factor. But already being considered tired just playing in the first of 2 tourneys???..sorry, it doesn't fly w/me..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 11-11-2010 at 02:31 AM.

  13. #642
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    Errmmm, just because Taufik easily went the distance at the FO does not necessarily mean that he could not have felt a bit under the weather the week before. There are days I just dont feel energetic right from the time I wake up, other days I can do no wrong! As a professional Taufik did his best at the DO, and lost. At the FO, he obviously "feels the love" much more and that is always added motivation for anyone in any walk of life to do/try better/harder.

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    between taufik and joj

    i think its easy for taufik to reach any ss tournament at least quarter final onwards

    but joj, despite beating taufik in denmark open, isn't that consistent (yet?)

    anyone agree?

  15. #644
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Actually in FO final, from what I see, most of the time JP totally dominated the net.

    The difference is that, when TH is fresh and sharp, he utilizes the net area, but does not totally rely on the net area. On the other hand, when TH has stamina problem, he over-plays his netshots which leads to easy points on a lucky day but easy points for opponents when he is not lucky.

    One example of the latter is that starting 2007, after one long long rally, TH usually tries to play tight netshots for easy points. Both LD and LCW have been taking advantage of this. Watch 2007 French Open vs LD or 2008 AE vs LCW and you will know what I mean.

    What happened in FO final is different. At first TH tried to dominate the net. But then he quickly realized that JP's touch is just too good that day, and played less netshots. Then, near the end of the match, when JP was slower, frustrated and disappointed, TH again focused on netshots. This time JP was no match.
    Re: the finals at the FO, my take is: TH had a clear strategy, and that was to test JP's physical condition by making him reach for the net shots. Second, I watched the match again after your comment, and I didn't see any evidence of JP totally outclassing TH at the net at any stage. If JP got some points at the net, half of those were because of Taufik's unforced errors, and the entire universe knows that Taufik is a notoriously slow starter.

  16. #645
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    my observation is JP already gone with back injury, TH just bulldoze him with normal game.

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    I agree with extremenanopowe, it wasn't really a fair contest. But Taufik would probably beat a full-fitness Persson as well, to be honest.

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