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Thread: Taufik Hidayat
11-12-2010, 01:10 PM #664
The problem with TH is not long rallies per se... The problem is, win or lose one long rally, he needs the following 2 - 3 pts to catch his breath. He would try to do outrageous things like net-catching-return-of-serve, which in most cases is costing him points instead of winning points -- but his purpose is to have some rest anyway.
TH indeed looks in better shape than most of the times during the past 3 years (2008-10), but I would say he is still not as good as himself in 2007, not to say 2006, and yes, definitely not comparable to 2005 or 04.
11-12-2010, 01:12 PM #665
11-12-2010, 06:39 PM #666
I will be glad to see TH getting bronze..he himself did not set up high expectation.Tough for him to play Asian games, Team and individual and after 2 SS...I do not see he has time to recover at all...
11-13-2010, 12:21 AM #667
11-13-2010, 02:29 AM #668
..JP is undergoing surgery??..
Btw, if i recall, JOJ's fast and attacking shots appeared in the 1st game as well.
Speaking of TH being "fresh", how can one be "fresh" playing in the Final Rd.? i doubt if he or anyone else would be "fresh" playing deep into the latter rounds. TH couldn't be any "fresher" when he played against JOJ in the M'sia Open earlier this yr, yet, what happened??..What's all this about TH's fluctuating form??..
- Where did you give credit to JOJ?..all i've been reading from your post is about how tired TH was and if he wasn't tired and was "fresher", he "should be able to beat JOJ easily"
- Do i care if you're impartial or not????..All i'm focusing on is the excuses abt TH when he lost..
- As for the comparison between the match against JP, imo, Taufik would've won against an injured or un-injured JP.
btw, i am also one of his biggest critics (i'm sure you've read my posts abt him being lazy to train and all)..
Last edited by ctjcad; 11-13-2010 at 02:37 AM.
11-13-2010, 08:54 AM #669
in response to a few of ctjcad's points...
If you watch the match, you can see that JOJ's "clever shots", "fast attacking shots" start to appear during the 2nd half of the 1st game.Speaking of TH being "fresh", how can one be "fresh" playing in the Final Rd.? i doubt if he or anyone else would be "fresh" playing deep into the latter rounds.
TH couldn't be any "fresher" when he played against JOJ in the M'sia Open earlier this yr, yet, what happened??..What's all this about TH's fluctuating form??..
11-14-2010, 10:33 AM #670
As a matter of fact, TH looks quite fresh in FO final.
In fact being "fresh" in a final is not rare at all: LD looks quite fresh in FO09 final; LD looks quite fresh in AE09 final; LCW looks very very fresh in JP07 final; And the most significant example: LD looks HELLISHLY FRESH in OG08 final.
What do you mean by "giving credit"? Did I say JOJ does not deserve the win? Did I deny that in DO final JOJ played better than TH? IMHO I gave JOJ enough credit. He beat a tired TH fair and square and got his first SS title. If you insist that JOJ is already at the same level as TH, sorry I just cannot agree.
Just curious. Suppose JOJ beat LD, and someone talks about his observation that LD looks "tired", would you also blame him/her for not giving JOJ "credit"?
As to "impartial", if I am impartial, then you are too harsh on TH.
11-14-2010, 07:10 PM #671
- Yes, i have not much dispute about LD & LCW being fresh in the Fnals of those tourneys. Btw, the reason LD & LCW looked fresh in the Finals of those tourneys you mentioned was because they haven't played for a while. Same deal with TH. But OTOH, you don't think TH was fresh/was tired playing in the Final of the 1st tourney of back-to-back tourneys.
If you can't connect the dot, the reason why i brought up TH's loss to JOJ earlier this yr (in the M'sia Open SS) was because you mentioned TH would've won against JOJ if he was "fresher". Well, in that M'sia Open SS, it was Taufik's first tourney of the year, so i assume he was "fresh"; probably "fresher" than he was at the DO Final. It was also in the 1st round, which means TH hasn't played competitive baddy for a while; probably only training. Yet, he lost to JOJ...Again, logically, a player would be "fresher" playing in the 1st or earlier round than at the latter round or even Final Rd. of a tourney.
Yes, pro players are trained hard so they can perform over a brief period of competition. If that's true, and if that applies to TH, i don't see why being tired, esp. playing in the 1st tourney of consecutive touneys would matter for TH??..
- Yes, where did you give JOJ credit for his win over TH? I'd like you to show me and prove me wrong..And no, he didn't beat a tired TH..
- Show me where you think i insist JOJ is already at the same level as TH..All i've mentioned was the match/games could've gone either way. To me, if you think TH was somewhat unlucky in the match (because he broke his strings etc.), or had momentary concentration lapses, i would somewhat consider that. Overall, JOJ was just sharper and a bit more consistent than TH; besides playing smart and applying the right game plan. That's all. But to use the excuse that TH was tired for the reason he lost???...
- Yes, i will also dispute and "blame" that someone in your scenario.
- I am being harsh on TH because a player of his caliber and talent, plus being an Olympic and WC champion, shouldn't take nearly 4 yrs to win a SS level tourney and not accomplish at least what PG, a player slightly older than him, has accomplished. I mean, SS is offered 12 times a yr since 2007, how hard is it for TH to claim a few??..
*Btw, i misread your other comment abt JOJ playing fast in the latter half of the 1st game (i thought you mentioend the 2nd game). I made the post very late at night and when i realized the error and wanted to change it was too late....But, i don't get what was your point in bringing that up??..
Last edited by ctjcad; 11-14-2010 at 07:18 PM.
11-15-2010, 05:08 AM #672
11-15-2010, 05:09 AM #673
11-15-2010, 02:40 PM #674
Why is it so hard to understand... Let's say you need to finish two projects in two weeks (one project per week -- an analogy to TH playing two tournaments back to back). On Thursday of the first week, you found that there is a bug, and you spent a whole night fixing it (an analogy to TH vs DPY in DO SF). On the other hand, the 2nd project goes smoothly, you work a regular 8 hour/day and get everything done. Now question: Will you be fresher on A) the first Friday or B) the 2nd Friday?
As I said, my "if TH being fresher" comment is based on my evaluation of TH's form during DO, during that particular week. We all know this has nothing to do with TH's form 10 months ago. So my comment should not be understood as saying "whenever TH is fresh, he should be able to beat JOJ easily".
It should be clear to everyone that TH really wanted the DO title. Now if you think JOJ is not at the same level as TH yet, and TH is not tired, then how come he lost? As to "lapse of concentration", I didn't spot any during DO final.
Actually TH's SS ranking is quite good. I would object looking at only the titles, especially when comparing players with only a few titles (for example, before FO, BP has one SS title, TH has none. Does that mean BP did better than TH in SS?)
11-15-2010, 03:14 PM #675
If you want to see a tired Taufik, check out his lost to LD in the 2006 Japan Open MS Final and last yr's WC Semis vs. CJ.
- Let me ask, do you think TH is "fresher" playing in an earlier round or in the Final Rd.?
- Why TH lost, you ask? I already explained it a few times. Even mentioned it in my previous reply.
- You might not spot TH's "lapse of concentration". But others might notice it.
- In comparing BP and TH, if BP has one SS title before TH, then of course he did better than TH in the SS (partly depends on the level of competition). Same deal with TH; he just won the FO, of course he did better than BP. And that's exactly, i'd like to know why a player w/a level like BP can win a SS title before TH won his. Even Simon Santoso won a SS title and SDK won a few titles as well before TH finally won his!
Last edited by ctjcad; 11-15-2010 at 03:20 PM.
11-15-2010, 07:56 PM #676
There are many who would like to insist that LD has always been a superior player to Taufik. Notice the emphasis on "always been." If so, how come Taufik won OG, WC and AG golds before Lin Dan got anywhere close to smelling gold? Especially when so many claimed he (LD) was "ready" to claim those medals? Would that not by the parameters of your own arguments, make Taufik a permanently superior player to Lin Dan?
So I would like to paraphrase your last question back to you with a substitution of names:
"And that's exactly, i'd like to know why a player w/a level like TH can win a OG, WC and AG title before LD won his."
11-15-2010, 08:42 PM #677
... except of course, that LD still has not won his AG title... yet...
11-15-2010, 08:53 PM #678
11-15-2010, 08:58 PM #679
11-15-2010, 10:11 PM #680
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