Taufik Hidayat

[ye333]

Your suggestion is not realistic... I am not a professional badminton player. My condition indicates nothing regarding TH's condition. For example, if I play on Friday, I feel very tired on Saturday, but on Sunday I can play again. Does that mean TH should feel the same? Nonsense. Right?

TH's getting single digit from LD and LCW for quite a few times. Why can't he get single digit from CJ? After all CJ's level (in big tournaments) is very close to that of LD and LCW. If you really want a reason besides "level", I would say the "single digit" is partly because TH got very frustrated in the 2nd game. He lost his cool.

- How about this for comparison. Try to play baddy for 2 straight weeks. You can choose to play doubles or singles, if you dare (i've never done that but i'd like to try it myself). Say from Tuesday til Sunday in the 1st week. Then take 2 days off and then continue with the same routine as the prior week. Basically the same format as the DO and FO. You can increase your level of playing competition for the 1st week, find some tougher opponents in the 1st week. Then, after you're done with the 2 weeks of playing, tell me if you feel fresher after the 1st week or after the 2nd week.
- Like i already mentioned, if you believe pro players are trained to last them for a brief period of time to compete, then using tiredness as an excuse for TH's loss in the DO Final should be null and void. Heck, he could even force a rubber game vs. LD in this yr's AG Men's team semis tie, esp. after 2 weeks of literally continuous competition. Are you going to come up with a different type of excuse (whatever it may be) should TH lose his future match(es)??
- Speaking about considering the opponents, that's why i mentioned earlier it's more about the level of your opponents/competition more than being tired in why you perceive Taufik had a bit of difficult time in the DO. yes, Tago, DPY and JOJ are much better in terms of skills and competitive level (besides younger) than TH's opponents in the FO. TH lost to JOJ because JOJ played better...all the reasons i already mentioned before..not because TH was tired..
- About TH's loss to CJ in last yr's WC Semis, i think it's either he was tired or lost the motivation (for the "speed" reason between CJ and TH) or both. How else can you explain TH getting single digit in the 2nd game? Same deal with his loss to LD in the 2006 Japan Open Final. I also saw the video of his WC match from last yr and certainly TH just couldn't keep up w/the pace esp. in the 2nd game; in essence CJ was simply toying with him.
- Yes, i wouldn't mind factoring in luck/being unlucky for TH (it happens to all players). If you want to include that in his DO's loss this yr, i would consider it..
- In my opinion, like i already mentioned, an Olympic and WC champion and a talent and caliber player like Taufik should've at least gotten 1 SS title in his 8 (or how many) SS appearances. I know in some of those SS, he didn't have to meet any CHN players. He certainly could beat LCW (as he proved recently in the WC); i recall once or twice TH lost to LCW in the Final Rd. of a SS.

[ctjcad]

Your suggestion is not realistic... I am not a professional badminton player. My condition indicates nothing regarding TH's condition. For example, if I play on Friday, I feel very tired on Saturday, but on Sunday I can play again. Does that mean TH should feel the same? Nonsense. Right?

TH's getting single digit from LD and LCW for quite a few times. Why can't he get single digit from CJ? After all CJ's level (in big tournaments) is very close to that of LD and LCW. If you really want a reason besides "level", I would say the "single digit" is partly because TH got very frustrated in the 2nd game. He lost his cool.

- That's the point i'm trying to get at. If you know Taufik won't get tired (like most of us will feel), you can't use "being tired" as an excuse esp. when it comes to a pro player like Taufik, can't you?
So, let me ask, if you play on Friday then rest on Saturday and then play again on Sunday, do you feel "fresher" on a Sunday or a Friday?..
All i'm doing in bringing up the scenario is to counter your notion that a "fresher" Taufik would beat JOJ. Well, both met earlier this yr, playing in the 1st Rd. and probably feeling very fresh and yet Taufik lost. And prior to that encounter, TH barely won against JOJ. So, it's more of the case that JOJ's playing experience vs. Taufik was getting better and better.
- The single digit game examples, of TH vs. LD and CJ, is to show you an example of, imo, a likely tired TH. I could tell from his court movements in that 2nd game (of last yr's WC, CJ was basically dictating everything). I use the scoreline as a basis to show a tired Taufik, just like i mentioned earlier abt TH vs. JOJ in the DO. How many pts did TH get against JOJ in the DO MS Final? and compare that to the examples i gave of him vs. LD & CJ..
- So now your reason (or excuse) why TH got single digit vs. CJ, after he got 16 pts in the 1st game of last yr's WC Semis, was partly because he lost his cool/got frustrated? How so? If he lost his cool and got frustrated, then don't you think he simply lost the motivation to fight? Tired not a factor? How about in Taufik's loss vs. LD in the 2006 JO MS Final?

[Yoppy]

wow, so TH can't compare to LD's career accomplishment and now you guys want to push it to a contest of who won first title at the earliest age?? Desperate effort indeed.

Guess who started this arguement first?? I think it was you on post #688

The difference between INA and china is china has too much talent, getting into #1 team and get more opportunity to play in bigger title tournament is not as easy as say, TH. Let assume TH peak earlier, so what? An early peaker is automatic a star or legend material? Hafiz won AE before LCW, how come HH play second fiddle to LCW? Using comparison of who won what earlier is scraping the bottom of the barrel argument i might say. I bet TH has his first pimple before LD too.

Yes thats right, so what if one has peaked earlier. So please explain your post #688

Are you sure you're guys are TH fan? Even i know what racket he was using in 2005. It was AT700. Do you need to know what U and G too? string used too? tension too?

Knowing LD underwear size does not mean you his biggest fan

The 2.18 years age difference is important number because TH was better than LD in 2004, 2005 and small part of 2006, ~ 2.18 year. However, LD is better than TH in large part of 2006, all of 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and counting.

Let me correct, TH is already a champion from 1999 and LD won his first major title in 2003. Thats 4 years gap OK??

[Yoppy]

I don't think Taufik ever won the Sudirman Cup. The only time INA won the Sudirman Cup was in 1989... Taufik must be around 10 years old at that time. Susi Susanti was only 18 when she won the 1st match for INA in the finals against KOR. INA was down 0-2, Susi played the 3rd match, down 1 game and 1-10 in game 2 [still using the 11 point non-rally-point system]... Somehow, Susi won game 2 and 3... Then later, INA won 3-2. Taufik was not in that Sudirman Cup win...

Oh yes. Thanks for the correction.

[weeyeh]

Hmm.. this thread is becoming really boring with too many expert chefs. You are all correct and/or have been grossly misunderstood by each other, lets agree to disagree and move on. Then again, do any of us really need the validation that we have speculated correctly and ours is the best and only explanation for TH/LD's performance/achievements? Such event is not even close to "The Big Bang"??

For a fact, yes, Taufik is growing older and younger players have already surpassed him. But like what Taufik said, and as confirmed by LD, he is around to just enjoy badminton. He's happy to play and give his best (which obviously fluctuates depending on many factors).

His best may not be up to mediocre for LD or LCW (or any top CHN MS) but so what? He may have mixed results (not winning any SS till FO2010, but yet is OG2004/WC2005 champion), does not have as many medals (whether they count) as LD or LCW but so what? For fans, we just like to watch him work his magic and hope (with a long neck) that he occasionally get that lucky break (or whatever you call that).

But seriously, so what if your hero than mine? Let it go and stop these petty arguments.

[pBmMalaysia]

Hmm.. this thread is becoming really boring with too many expert chefs. You are all correct and/or have been grossly misunderstood by each other, lets agree to disagree and move on. Then again, do any of us really need the validation that we have speculated correctly and ours is the best and only explanation for TH/LD's performance/achievements? Such event is not even close to "The Big Bang"??

For a fact, yes, Taufik is growing older and younger players have already surpassed him. But like what Taufik said, and as confirmed by LD, he is around to just enjoy badminton. He's happy to play and give his best (which obviously fluctuates depending on many factors).

His best may not be up to mediocre for LD or LCW (or any top CHN MS) but so what? He may have mixed results (not winning any SS till FO2010, but yet is OG2004/WC2005 champion), does not have as many medals (whether they count) as LD or LCW but so what? For fans, we just like to watch him work his magic and hope (with a long neck) that he occasionally get that lucky break (or whatever you call that).

But seriously, so what if your hero than mine? Let it go and stop these petty arguments.

yes you are right

we all can have our fans and opinions

to me taufik is still a genius in court

win or loss i really enjoy his performance

and he deserves all the respects

so grow up lads, if anyone thinks taufik is history please leave

[OneToughBirdie]

Knowing LD underwear size does not mean you his biggest fan

Hi Yop...knowing LD undie size...err...means not only the biggest fan but the mother of all fans....ouuuiii, that's intimate stuff mate

[OneToughBirdie]

I just watched TH play the Taipei player...TH certainly is back. TH stamina has vastly improved and with no pressure, TH could surprise a lot of people. But I am also thinking TH seems to be playing a controlled pace and if he plays LD, CJ or LCW and they up the pace and speed of the game, how would TH respond.

[Krisna]

I just watched TH play the Taipei player...TH certainly is back. TH stamina has vastly improved and with no pressure, TH could surprise a lot of people. But I am also thinking TH seems to be playing a controlled pace and if he plays LD, CJ or LCW and they up the pace and speed of the game, how would TH respond.

TH will just play his best laaah.... Whatever the result shall be, he is playing in his 3rd (some actually said this is his 4th) Asian Games, won the last 2 Asian Games MS golds, nobody can take that away from him...

[ye333]

I don't know TH will get tired or not. What I said is basically "TH looks tired to me in DO final, but looks fresher in FO final". Similar to you, I make this conclusion based on his court movement. Then I use the big difference in his opponents to explain my observation. Got it?

Of course I am fresher on Sunday. Because Friday night I am usually drained mentally after a week's hard work. In particular, if I work very hard on Friday, I totally suck on Friday nights.

So TH "looks tired" to you in WC. But how come? In 2009 WC CJ is the very first strong opponent he met. How can TH not be "tired" after beating Tago and DPY in hard games, but was "tired" after easily beating HYH, who is almost as old as TH himself, and plays a style that does not cost TH much energy? And yes I think he lost his motivation to fight, in both the 2nd half of WC09 and JO06.

Considering the big difference between JOJ's level and LD/CJ's, I would say if TH can get 6 pts from a CJ who is in best form, getting 19 pts from JOJ is not surprising at all.

Finally, look at LHI vs CJ today. If CJ is more motivated, LHI definitely will get single digit in the 2nd game. Is LHI tired from playing one or two nobodies in the past two days?

- That's the point i'm trying to get at. If you know Taufik won't get tired (like most of us will feel), you can't use "being tired" as an excuse esp. when it comes to a pro player like Taufik, can't you?
So, let me ask, if you play on Friday then rest on Saturday and then play again on Sunday, do you feel "fresher" on a Sunday or a Friday?..
All i'm doing in bringing up the scenario is to counter your notion that a "fresher" Taufik would beat JOJ. Well, both met earlier this yr, playing in the 1st Rd. and probably feeling very fresh and yet Taufik lost. And prior to that encounter, TH barely won against JOJ. So, it's more of the case that JOJ's playing experience vs. Taufik was getting better and better.
- The single digit game examples, of TH vs. LD and CJ, is to show you an example of, imo, a likely tired TH. I could tell from his court movements in that 2nd game (of last yr's WC, CJ was basically dictating everything). I use the scoreline as a basis to show a tired Taufik, just like i mentioned earlier abt TH vs. JOJ in the DO. How many pts did TH get against JOJ in the DO MS Final? and compare that to the examples i gave of him vs. LD & CJ..
- So now your reason (or excuse) why TH got single digit vs. CJ, after he got 16 pts in the 1st game of last yr's WC Semis, was partly because he lost his cool/got frustrated? How so? If he lost his cool and got frustrated, then don't you think he simply lost the motivation to fight? Tired not a factor? How about in Taufik's loss vs. LD in the 2006 JO MS Final?

[ye333]

Well, TH can up his pace too, right...

If TH can beat PSH easily and NTM can drag LD into a long fight, the SF may be interesting...

I just watched TH play the Taipei player...TH certainly is back. TH stamina has vastly improved and with no pressure, TH could surprise a lot of people. But I am also thinking TH seems to be playing a controlled pace and if he plays LD, CJ or LCW and they up the pace and speed of the game, how would TH respond.

[ctjcad]

I don't know TH will get tired or not. What I said is basically "TH looks tired to me in DO final, but looks fresher in FO final". Similar to you, I make this conclusion based on his court movement. Then I use the big difference in his opponents to explain my observation. Got it?

Of course I am fresher on Sunday. Because Friday night I am usually drained mentally after a week's hard work. In particular, if I work very hard on Friday, I totally suck on Friday nights.

So TH "looks tired" to you in WC. But how come? In 2009 WC CJ is the very first strong opponent he met. How can TH not be "tired" after beating Tago and DPY in hard games, but was "tired" after easily beating HYH, who is almost as old as TH himself, and plays a style that does not cost TH much energy? And yes I think he lost his motivation to fight, in both the 2nd half of WC09 and JO06.

Considering the big difference between JOJ's level and LD/CJ's, I would say if TH can get 6 pts from a CJ who is in best form, getting 19 pts from JOJ is not surprising at all.

Finally, look at LHI vs CJ today. If CJ is more motivated, LHI definitely will get single digit in the 2nd game. Is LHI tired from playing one or two nobodies in the past two days?

- Like i already mentioned, I recall TH's court movement in this yr's DO MS Final as fine. He was still running and retrieving the shuttles til well late in the 2nd game. If you want to refer to him making mistakes/errors because he was tired, JOJ was also doing the same. To me, i don't consider TH as tired as the reason he lost to JOJ. Yes, his opponents were the diference in your perception of him having a tougher time in DO and relatively easier time in FO, just like i already mentioned as a factor.
- You sure you're fresher on a Sunday? Maybe cos you don't have to go all out on Friday? How about this, go play all out on a Friday night and come play again on the Sunday. Or if you feel tired on Friday cos of work, don't play Friday and Saturday but play all out on Sunday. Then come back and play on a Monday or Tuesday night and tell me which day you feel fresher.
- To me, besides the scoreboard, i see TH's court movement and body language, in his match vs. CJ in last yr's WC, as a sign of him being tired (as part of the reason he lost his motivation). As for TH's not being tired in this yr's DO after he faced Tago and DPY, have you read the other members mentioning TH's fitness seems to improve this yr. That he can last longer rallies...hmmm..Even recently, in this yr's WC Final vs. CJ, TH was able to score double digits in both games..
- As for the "the big difference between JOJ's level and LD/CJ's", my friend, as i already mentioned before, TH nearly forced LD to a rubber game in this yr's AG Men's team event. Just consider your TH's fitness/stamina is better this yr..
- As for the CJ vs. LHI comparison, all i'll mention is i can't judge much abt LHI's fitness condition (or whether CJ was more/less motivated). All i know is, LHI hasn't been competing much this yr, just on and off. So, my guess is, it could be his form or just less fit. And partly, CJ was overall in better form and fitter.

Well, TH can up his pace too, right...

If TH can beat PSH easily and NTM can drag LD into a long fight, the SF may be interesting...

..whatever the result, TH's fitness will be tested against PSH..

[chris-ccc]

.
From what I have read and heard, Taufik's fitness is now at its best (talking about over the last 4 years).

Hope that Taufik can perform well at this 2010 Asian Games.
.

[undeadshot]

Taufik has just lost to Park Sung Hwan in straight games 15-21; 16-21.

[Babyface]

PSH looked very sharp in early rounds... TH gave it his all... but ran out of steam...

[cobalt]

I am officially in mourning. DND

[pBmMalaysia]

i think we all under estimated park

beating taufik in straight games isn't easy

must see the games, maybe tired after 3 straight tournaments