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  1. #1
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    Default Definition of Beginner, Intermediate & Advanced

    I have seen and joined many players/groups who categorise themselves as advanced players, only to be disappointed that they are actually only high beginners or low intermediates according to my own definition of those terms.
    I am sure that many others have also experienced such things.

    I wonder if there are any set of universal rating system for badminton similar to tennis' NTRP system for players to rate themselves more accurately.

    Just as a gauge for those of you who know my standard, I rate myself as a "low intermediate". I have played with and against players ranging from complete beginners to professionals like Aman Santosa and Hendri Saputra. As such, my definition of "advanced" would tend to be a little stricter than those players who have not had a chance to spar with players of such calibre.

    So here's how I define those terms. Do comment and add on them.
    Hopefully we can refine it as we go along.

    Professionals/Ex-professionals: Players currently representing/represented their countries in international tournaments. National youth players do not count.

    Advanced: Players who are/were members of the national training squad but have not represented their countries in major international tournaments belong to this category. National Youth squad trainees (above age 17) belong to this category too.

    Intermediates: Players who regularly take part in local competitions and have had a high degree of success. Inter-con players who have won regularly belong to this category. These players possess very good fundamentals but lack the experience and certain aspects of their game to put them on par with the Advanced players eg speed, power, stamina, killer instinct, gameplay.

    Low Intermediates: Players who have/had occasionally taken part in local competitions but have not had a high degree of success. These players generally belong to social groups/clubs and occasionally take part in local tournament just for fun. Generally have very sounds basics and good gameplay but do not undergo regular formal training. As such, they do not have good stamina, speed and power to match the more regular competitive players.

    High beginners: These are the regular social players. Occasionally take part in friendly matches with other social groups. Have low degree of success in friendly matches. Hardly takes part in local competitions.

    Beginners: Generally players who have played for less than a year. Have not taken part even in friendly matches. May be able to execute proper strokes and footwork but lack success in match situations.

  2. #2
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    Default Right on!

    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose
    I have seen and joined many players/groups who categorise themselves as advanced players, only to be disappointed that they are actually only high beginners or low intermediates according to my own definition of those terms.
    I am sure that many others have also experienced such things.

    I wonder if there are any set of universal rating system for badminton similar to tennis' NTRP system for players to rate themselves more accurately.

    Just as a gauge for those of you who know my standard, I rate myself as a "low intermediate". I have played with and against players ranging from complete beginners to professionals like Aman Santosa and Hendri Saputra. As such, my definition of "advanced" would tend to be a little stricter than those players who have not had a chance to spar with players of such calibre.

    So here's how I define those terms. Do comment and add on them.
    Hopefully we can refine it as we go along.

    Professionals/Ex-professionals: Players currently representing/represented their countries in international tournaments. National youth players do not count.

    Advanced: Players who are/were members of the national training squad but have not represented their countries in major international tournaments belong to this category. National Youth squad trainees (above age 17) belong to this category too.

    Intermediates: Players who regularly take part in local competitions and have had a high degree of success. Inter-con players who have won regularly belong to this category. These players possess very good fundamentals but lack the experience and certain aspects of their game to put them on par with the Advanced players eg speed, power, stamina, killer instinct, gameplay.

    Low Intermediates: Players who have/had occasionally taken part in local competitions but have not had a high degree of success. These players generally belong to social groups/clubs and occasionally take part in local tournament just for fun. Generally have very sounds basics and good gameplay but do not undergo regular formal training. As such, they do not have good stamina, speed and power to match the more regular competitive players.

    High beginners: These are the regular social players. Occasionally take part in friendly matches with other social groups. Have low degree of success in friendly matches. Hardly takes part in local competitions.

    Beginners: Generally players who have played for less than a year. Have not taken part even in friendly matches. May be able to execute proper strokes and footwork but lack success in match situations.

    I think you are on the right track on the classifications of players. This should be used as the same standard everywhere. Actually a more accurate one will be to watch them in action. Some ex-trainees also damn rusty liao so wacthing their strokes will the most accurate guage like their movement in doubles, able to cover the net while thier partners are attacking, able to toss spin the shuttle at tight net situation and cross net with high degree of efficiency are all traits of an advanced players. Not to mention reading of strokes and using of double strokes at the right time....etc.
    Actually to me players with very good wrist work belongs to the advanced category. Easily identifiable. Being able to use backhand with only wirst and not turning the body are traits of players with super wrist work. With good wrist work, you almost do anything..

    Btw mongoose do you you join the JEast group on Sat evenings? You know the regular group that is on Yahoo group Genxxxxxxxx...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose
    I have seen and joined many players/groups who categorise themselves as advanced players, only to be disappointed that they are actually only high beginners or low intermediates according to my own definition of those terms.
    I am sure that many others have also experienced such things.

    I wonder if there are any set of universal rating system for badminton similar to tennis' NTRP system for players to rate themselves more accurately.

    Just as a gauge for those of you who know my standard, I rate myself as a "low intermediate". I have played with and against players ranging from complete beginners to professionals like Aman Santosa and Hendri Saputra. As such, my definition of "advanced" would tend to be a little stricter than those players who have not had a chance to spar with players of such calibre.

    So here's how I define those terms. Do comment and add on them.
    Hopefully we can refine it as we go along.

    Professionals/Ex-professionals: Players currently representing/represented their countries in international tournaments. National youth players do not count.

    Advanced: Players who are/were members of the national training squad but have not represented their countries in major international tournaments belong to this category. National Youth squad trainees (above age 17) belong to this category too.

    Intermediates: Players who regularly take part in local competitions and have had a high degree of success. Inter-con players who have won regularly belong to this category. These players possess very good fundamentals but lack the experience and certain aspects of their game to put them on par with the Advanced players eg speed, power, stamina, killer instinct, gameplay.

    Low Intermediates: Players who have/had occasionally taken part in local competitions but have not had a high degree of success. These players generally belong to social groups/clubs and occasionally take part in local tournament just for fun. Generally have very sounds basics and good gameplay but do not undergo regular formal training. As such, they do not have good stamina, speed and power to match the more regular competitive players.

    High beginners: These are the regular social players. Occasionally take part in friendly matches with other social groups. Have low degree of success in friendly matches. Hardly takes part in local competitions.

    Beginners: Generally players who have played for less than a year. Have not taken part even in friendly matches. May be able to execute proper strokes and footwork but lack success in match situations.
    great.....you have just demoted me....i now am high beginner.....no more low intermmidiate liao.....

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    thanks for the definition. i think they are very objective in nature and should nicely indicate the skills of most of the players.

    bravo!

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    Hi JBKokKeong.
    Yes I do play with the Jurong East EBadminton Gen2 group.
    Wassup?

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    Man, with that kind of definitions, all those absolute beginners will have a hard time posting here for games. They'll be too shy to ask Personally, I'd rather give the professionals a class of its own to separate them from the rest. eg: Professionals and Amateurs:

    Advanced Professionals: High profile players, Ronald Susilo and Henry Saputra included
    Intermediate Professionals: More like Kendrick Lee
    Beginner Professionals: Derek Wong?
    Ofcourse there is the issue with the ex-professionals, don't really know where to put them because some of them may still be better than Kendrick Lee.

    Then we have the Amateurs:
    Advanced: High and Low, High being the top sch players. Low being people like Sophian, Herman, and urself (mongoose) and myself Kekekekee

    Intermediate: High and Low, High being players like Alan aka Nightmaster, Cheewai to a certain extent, and a few others. Low being players like Daniel

    Beginners: High, have played for a few months, know how to serve semi-decently, and can hit various shots despite the lack in quality. Low, "I just bought my racket yesterday..."
    Last edited by Iwan; 05-18-2006 at 08:30 PM.

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    Yeaaa, I just got promoted to High Beginner.

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    Thanks for the feedback guys.
    However I find it hard to consider myself as "Advanced" player when the furthest I have ever gone in a national-level competition was the 3rd round of SAFRA Open Men's Doubles back in the mid 90's.
    The only time I have gone further than that was the finals of an invitational team tournament. But that was a team tournament and my win-lose rate was around 50/50.

    I feel that High Intermediate-Advanced players must have had at least a decent degree of success in national-level tournaments such as SAFRA Open, Cheers, Ashaway etc. Tournaments organised by CCs etc do not count.

    So how about shifting the levels up by one rung?
    That is:

    Professionals/Ex-professionals: Players currently representing/represented their countries in international tournaments. National youth players do not count.

    Advanced: Players who are/were members of the national training squad but have not represented their countries in major international tournaments belong to this category. National Youth squad trainees (above age 17) belong to this category too.

    High Intermediates: Players who regularly take part in local competitions and have had a high degree of success. Inter-con players who have won regularly belong to this category. These players possess very good fundamentals but lack the experience and certain aspects of their game to put them on par with the Advanced players eg speed, power, stamina, killer instinct, gameplay.

    Intermediates: Players who have/had occasionally taken part in local competitions but have not had a high degree of success. These players generally belong to social groups/clubs and occasionally take part in local tournament just for fun. Generally have very sounds basics and good gameplay but do not undergo regular formal training. As such, they do not have good stamina, speed and power to match the more regular competitive players.

    Low Intermediates: These are the regular social players. Occasionally take part in friendly matches with other social groups. Have low degree of success in friendly matches. Hardly takes part in local competitions.

    Beginners: Generally players who have played for less than a year. Have not taken part even in friendly matches. May be able to execute proper strokes and footwork but lack success in match situations.

    Do keep the feedback coming. Hopefully we can come up with a decent rating system for our local badminton players.
    Last edited by mongoose; 05-18-2006 at 10:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwan
    Man, with that kind of definitions, all those absolute beginners will have a hard time posting here for games. They'll be too shy to ask Personally, I'd rather give the professionals a class of its own to separate them from the rest. eg: Professionals and Amateurs:

    Advanced Professionals: High profile players, Ronald Susilo and Henry Saputra included
    Intermediate Professionals: More like Kendrick Lee
    Beginner Professionals: Derek Wong?
    Ofcourse there is the issue with the ex-professionals, don't really know where to put them because some of them may still be better than Kendrick Lee.

    Then we have the Amateurs:
    Advanced: High and Low, High being the top sch players. Low being people like Sophian, Herman, and urself (mongoose) and myself Kekekekee

    Intermediate: High and Low, High being players like Alan aka Nightmaster, Cheewai to a certain extent, and a few others. Low being players like Daniel

    Beginners: High, have played for a few months, know how to serve semi-decently, and can hit various shots despite the lack in quality. Low, "I just bought my racket yesterday..."
    I agree with Iwan that Kendrick is somehow not as good as susilo or supatra when compare in thier best form.

    Speaking about Ex-professionals, IMHO Donald Koh can take on any single players (other than Susilo, Supatra and Maybe 50-50 against kendrick ) and he is either 35 or 37 i think. Just sometime ago, a national squad full time player lost to him in a friendly match. Goes to show our standard...lolz.

    Mongoose, actually i would somehow disagree with certain aspect of the categorization of level of play in the advance category.

    I was 3rd in the Konica Junior Singapore Open when i was 15 and part of the Intermediate Training Squad under the Spex/ F&N Scheme when i was 17. However i was reminded of those "Hidden Tiger Crouching Dragon" when i was beaten by an unknown malaysian in a friendly game organize by my friend. I query further and was told he is neither a Malaysian squad or State player and yet he can play so well. Press on and he say he actually have a chance to train with the malaysian squad before but he turn it down due to "political reasons".

    I wonder how do we classify these type of players?

    E.g I have played against some indonesian players in the Current ongoing Singapore Inter club tournament and players like Adi from CSC are neither ex-PBSI or provincial players but has a high degree of badminton skills. And i feel there many other good players who are very skillful but never got to represent or train with their various Badminton Federations.

    Of coz its easy to classify ex-indonesian players in Singapore like Dicky, Faris etc under advance....maybe even Semi professionals hahax.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose
    Hi JBKokKeong.
    Yes I do play with the Jurong East EBadminton Gen2 group.
    Wassup?
    i join u guys once and got to partner this tall guy which speak with a slight slang. Is he still playing there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by surge
    great.....you have just demoted me....i now am high beginner.....no more low intermmidiate liao.....
    our group should be consider as high beginner?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwan
    Then we have the Amateurs:
    Advanced: High and Low, High being the top sch players. Low being people like Sophian, Herman, and urself (mongoose) and myself Kekekekee

    Intermediate: High and Low, High being players like Alan aka Nightmaster, Cheewai to a certain extent, and a few others. Low being players like Daniel

    Beginners: High, have played for a few months, know how to serve semi-decently, and can hit various shots despite the lack in quality. Low, "I just bought my racket yesterday..."
    err...excuse me, but where do I fit in beside the rooms in IMH?

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    think e grading system should not include pros or competitive players.

    just like tennis NRTP ratings....pros are way out of the scale.

    the concentration should be at the beginner to intermediate levels.

    there are alot of players that falls around this category. w the high beginner...i guess a lot of players will fall into this category and yet the standards will be very very far apart just in the high beginner alone.

    practically everyone that plays in some social group is in this cat.

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    for those curious about what's 'NTRP', here's the link:

    http://www.usta.com/leagues/custom.s...tompageid=1655

    please note the strokes apply to tennis strokes and not applicable for badminton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Netasia
    err...excuse me, but where do I fit in beside the rooms in IMH?
    mike, tot u referring to the overweight category

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealman
    for those curious about what's 'NTRP', here's the link:

    http://www.usta.com/leagues/custom.s...tompageid=1655

    please note the strokes apply to tennis strokes and not applicable for badminton
    hey sealman, i have modified the NTRP ratings to suit badminton better.....


    To place yourself:
    A.Begin with 1.5. Read all categories carefully and then decide which one best describes your present ability level. Be certain that you qualify on all points of all preceding levels as well as those in the level you choose.
    B. When rating yourself assume you are playing against a player of the same gender and the same ability.

    General Characteristics of Various NTRP Playing Levels( modified for badminton)

    B.
    1.5
    You have limited experience and are working primarily on getting the shuttle in play.

    2.0
    You lack court experience and your strokes need developing. You are familiar with the basic positions for singles but play doubles like singles play.
    2.5
    You are learning to judge where the shuttle is going, although your court coverage is limited by your footwork. You can sustain a short rally of slow pace with other players of the same ability but are not using proper footwork.
    3.0
    You are fairly consistent when hitting medium-paced shots, but are not comfortable with all strokes and lacks consistency when trying for directional control, depth, or power. Your most common doubles formation is covering your own half of the court. You execute the same type of service for doubles and singles regardless of opponent.

    3.5
    You have achieved improved stroke dependability with directional control on moderate shots, but need to develop depth and variety. You exhibit more aggressive net play, have improved court coverage and are developing teamwork in doubles in both attack and defense. You can serve low quite successfully to force opponent to go into defense.
    4.0
    You have dependable strokes, including directional control and depth on both forehand and backhand sides on moderate-paced shots. You can use lobs, overheads, smashes and net with some success. Rallies may be lost due to game play than technique. Teamwork in doubles is evident.

    4.5
    You have developed your use of power and deception and can handle pace. You have sound footwork, can control depth of shots, and attempt to vary game play according to your opponents. You can return service well with power and accuracy. Aggressive net play is common when attacking in doubles.

    5.0
    You have good shot anticipation and frequently have an outstanding shot or attribute around which a game may be structured. You can regularly hit winners or force errors off of short serves and can put away weak returns at the net or half court returns. You can successfully execute lobs, drop shots, drives, overhead smashes and netting. You can handle both forehand and backhand techniques in a fast pace shots. you are often able to force weak returns from your opponents.

    5.5
    You have mastered power and/or consistency as a major weapon. You can vary strategies and styles of play in a competitive situation and hit dependable shots in a stress situation.

    6.0 to 7.0
    You have had intensive training for national tournament competition at the junior and collegiate levels and have obtained a sectional and/or national ranking.

    7.0
    You are competent in you technique and has good stamina to play competitively in local tournaments.


    what you think.

    pros or advance will all be 7.0 above so that we know they can play well...is whether they wanna play w you or not
    Last edited by surge; 05-19-2006 at 04:06 AM.

  17. #17
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    I would divide it into STROKES / FOOTWORK / VISION

    The NTRP rating assumes that all 3 progress together which is not the case in badminton. In badminton, we have beginners with lousy footwork but can smash and hit all kinds of shots really really hard. In many groups you can find that the hardest-hitting player is not necessarily the best...

    A divided rating also helps to rate the 'Old player who was previously very good.' Likely his stroke and vision ratings are very high, but footwork have to be marked down because old man cannot move Similarly, you have the superfit ones who can chase down all kinds of shots, but strokes only so-so.

    (Vision - refers to court positioning / court awareness / knowing which shot to play / anticipation)

    I give myself about 2.0 to 2.5

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