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  1. #341
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    If one is ready for the drive serve, it won't be an attacking serve. Anyway, the contact of the shuttle is still around the hip. Despite the flatness of a perfect drive serve, it's still easy to anticipate due to the distance the server has to be from the service line. A receiver will have lots of time to respond. The only 'attacking' serve I would consider is an illegal chest height drive to the receiver's face. Those ones I have seen plenty at community center drop-ins.

  2. #342
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    The drive serve has been kept in cold storage for a long time. Old timers, from the days of Wong Peng Soon, were masters of the drive serve. It also came in various variations, drive serving from the outer tramlines and anywhere from between there and the centre line. I have not seen the drive serve for a long, long time. The last time I used it was about 20 years ago. I don't think modern players know how to deliver a drive serve accurately, or as good as was done in the old days.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75
    If one is ready for the drive serve, it won't be an attacking serve. Anyway, the contact of the shuttle is still around the hip. Despite the flatness of a perfect drive serve, it's still easy to anticipate due to the distance the server has to be from the service line. A receiver will have lots of time to respond. The only 'attacking' serve I would consider is an illegal chest height drive to the receiver's face. Those ones I have seen plenty at community center drop-ins.
    I agree, may be we have to name this counter drive serve stroke. Should I call it "Quick-Punch attacking serve" stroke or "fast-Punch attacking serve" stroke, and class it as defensive stroke?

    A new page in my note book under the section of Tips and Recommendations to Beginners.
    This "Quick-Punch attacking serve" defensive stroke will be most offensive against the attacking serve, i.e drive serve. It is observed, the faster the server serves this attacking serve, the faster you could return back to the server and causing great damage to the server especially if you could return the shot downward onto his body. It is therefore a good tactical approach to "invite" your server to perform this attacking serve in either single or double game. There are many ways that you could "invite" your opponent to do this shot but it has to be demonstrated by your fully qualified coach!
    Additional note. Alternative strokes to handle attacking serve. Using block (note the importance of the angle of the racket face for downward, tumbling efect) and make the shuttle tumble over close to the net; or catch him out of position by tap shot (note the return shot taken at mid court and is faster than shooting clear aka attacking clear) to his backhand baseline

  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75
    If one is ready for the drive serve, it won't be an attacking serve. Anyway, the contact of the shuttle is still around the hip. Despite the flatness of a perfect drive serve, it's still easy to anticipate due to the distance the server has to be from the service line. A receiver will have lots of time to respond. The only 'attacking' serve I would consider is an illegal chest height drive to the receiver's face. Those ones I have seen plenty at community center drop-ins.
    Let's check the logic here a little:

    If one is ready for a smash, is it then not an attacking shot?

    To bring the contrast further, I am sure nothing I can throw at Lin Dan will bother him. Does that mean I can play no attacking shots against Lin Dan?

    Also, if Taufik is having a bad day with his smashes, and those get picked up easily by his opponent, does that mean his smashes are not attacking shots?

  5. #345
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    There is one dude who likes to drive the serve from the outer tramline at VRC. Let's just say he looks impressive but experienced folks get used to him. We just get ready and pound the drive serves down between the server and the server's partner. The big empty gap sure look tasty.

  6. #346
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    If there is a big gap of physcial and technical ability between the smasher and the receiver, a smash from the much weaker smasher can easily be attacked by the receiver. I have experienced on a few occassion where my smashes were driven back right at me at the net.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheongsa
    Let's check the logic here a little:

    If one is ready for a smash, is it then not an attacking shot?

    To bring the contrast further, I am sure nothing I can throw at Lin Dan will bother him. Does that mean I can play no attacking shots against Lin Dan?

    Also, if Taufik is having a bad day with his smashes, and those get picked up easily by his opponent, does that mean his smashes are not attacking shots?

  7. #347
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    Most of the good drive serves I've seen are illegal, contact point too high. Also when people do the drive serve, they usually eat the bird.

  8. #348
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    I know of the drive serve you speak - I will do it to the recievers forehand side in doubles which will catch people off guard every so often.

    The key words every so often.

    The the problem with a drive serve is that it can come back at you SO fast you don't have time to react.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViningWolff
    I know of the drive serve you speak - I will do it to the recievers forehand side in doubles which will catch people off guard every so often.

    The key words every so often.

    The the problem with a drive serve is that it can come back at you SO fast you don't have time to react.
    Ding! At lower levels, I think you can get away with it more but at higher levels, success is much more difficult.

  10. #350
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    Bottom line: A serve is not an attacking shot. Repeat after me: A serve is not an attack shot but a defensive stroke.

    A serve has to start below the net (unless your waist line is above 5ft) so the shuttle has to travel up and over the net. A drive serve is the same thing, it still has to go up and over the net. You will probably catch your opponent by surprise the first couple of times but as the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you".

  11. #351
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    Er... logic would dictate that whatever you or any amateur players throw at Lin Dan likely won't cause him to lift the shuttle to you, unless of course if he wasn't playing 100%. At most, you might be able to exchange 'no initiative' shots with him. To me, an attacking shot is basically a shot that goes down at the fastest trajectory from a point with the most angle and options. Receiving a smash, no matter how ready you are, is still an attempt to convert a defensive situation into an offensive one. The return trajectory still has to go up and over the net, chances of net interception (especially in a doubles context) is very high. Also, it's a given that whoever takes the shuttle the earliest gets the most advantage. Overhead shots taken at optimal height certainly qualifies that, but I can't say the same about underhand shots.

    Like Viver mentioned, an attacking shot is not necessarily the finishing shot but one with the highest percentage of finishing a rally. Finishing a rally with a smash or net kill is probably more memorable than a player having an unforced error and screwing up his shot because his superior opponent managed to 'trick' him out of position. That maybe the reason why most people equate an attacking shot with a finishing shot.

    As for Taufik having a bad day with his smashes... they are attacking shots alright, but I guess they're not doing their job too well.


    Quote Originally Posted by cheongsa
    Let's check the logic here a little:

    If one is ready for a smash, is it then not an attacking shot?

    To bring the contrast further, I am sure nothing I can throw at Lin Dan will bother him. Does that mean I can play no attacking shots against Lin Dan?

    Also, if Taufik is having a bad day with his smashes, and those get picked up easily by his opponent, does that mean his smashes are not attacking shots?
    Last edited by cappy75; 07-05-2006 at 10:55 PM.

  12. #352
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    Try the following drive serves and let us know how you go.

    1. Singles. Stand about three feet back from the front service line and anywhere between the centre line and the singles tramline (you will find different spots to exploit different receivers). Serving from your right side, aim a powerful drive serve at the opponent's back centre line(the T). If you drive serve accurately and with power you might get outright winners or a weak reply. If you do it more than once your opponent will stand a bit back and nearer to the centre line. You then vary your serve and put aside your drive serve.
    2. Doubles. When drive serving from the right side, drive serve like in singles but aim for the doubles back T in the centre line. Standing a bit more to your right will make it even more awkward for the receiver. When serving from the left, stand more to the left near the tramlines and aim for the T in the centre at the back doubles service line.

    Remember your drive serves must have power and must be flat. If not flat and if not powerful then the receiver will reply with a stinging return. When do you know if your drive serves are what they ought to be? When the receiver is forced to move to the back of the centre line and when he is forced to take a backhand stance (for drive serving from the right side) to return your serve. Or when you get easy winners.

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winex West Can
    Bottom line: A serve is not an attacking shot. Repeat after me: A serve is not an attack shot but a defensive stroke.
    Most serves are not attacking shots. However, the drive serve is an attacking serve.

  14. #354
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    Default The Ingeniousness of Wong Peng Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete LSD
    There is one dude who likes to drive the serve from the outer tramline at VRC. Let's just say he looks impressive but experienced folks get used to him. We just get ready and pound the drive serves down between the server and the server's partner. The big empty gap sure look tasty.
    Hello Everyone,

    In Post#342, taneepak reminded me of this great ingenious player, Wong Peng Soon. He was one of the few players who had contributed greatly to the Evolution of Badminton. He was never satisfied with the “normal game of Badminton”. He was forever trying to introduce/inject new ideas, with new strokes and new tactics.

    When he introduced the Drive Service performed from the outer tramlines, his opponents were taken aback and did not know how to handle it.

    But it did not take long for the rest of the world to study and analyse his new skill/tactic, hence finding a way to counter it(and this was explained above by Pete LSD's Post#345).

    But the source of honor and distinction is Wong Peng Soon. We need more new ideas and new skills to be brought into Badminton. Let us not play the 50-years-ago Badminton in 50 years time.

    This thread is coming alive now. We are now moving into the realm of tactics/strokes/shots all combined together in a package.

    And I hope to have a “Wong Peng Soon” in this thread here, who can introduce/inject new ideas, with new strokes and new tactics.

    Cheers... chris@ccc


  15. #355
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    We really need to differentiate players into age group and degree of join mobility. These two factors greatly affect the type of serves employed.
    Last edited by Pete LSD; 07-06-2006 at 12:01 AM.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75
    Like Viver mentioned, an attacking shot is not necessarily the finishing shot but one with the highest percentage of finishing a rally. Finishing a rally with a smash or net kill is probably more memorable than a player having an unforced error and screwing up his shot because his superior opponent managed to 'trick' him out of position. That maybe the reason why most people equate an attacking shot with a finishing shot.

    As for Taufik having a bad day with his smashes... they are attacking shots alright, but I guess they're not doing their job too well.
    There is a problem with the logic in these two paragraphs.

    Let us say Taufik is having a bad day with his smashes, and Kenneth Jonasen is having a great day with his smash returns. Every time Taufik smashes, Kenneth returns the smash, the rally ends, and Kenneth scores a point.

    In this match then, Taufik's smash has a 0% rate of scoring a point, and Kenneth's smash return has a 100% rate of scoring a point, ... except that it is executed underhand, and the shuttle travels upwards right after impact!

    What I am trying to point out is that the definition of a attacking/defending shot will get unnecessarily convoluted, and frequently self-contradictory, if we also try to factor the opponent's capabilities and intentions into the equation.

    I would suggest, once again, that the simplest thing to do is to leave out the opponent, and concentrate only on the player and his/her shots.

    The next thing I would suggest, would be to relax the fix tags of 'attacking' and 'defending' on particular shots, since such a rigid definition does not actually take into account the complexity of the game itself, and certainly do not accommodate exceptional use of shots.

  17. #357
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    I asked previously about the books names where you got the references from. If you don't mind, could you let me know the books' titles and authors.


    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Try the following drive serves and let us know how you go.

    1. Singles. Stand about three feet back from the front service line and anywhere between the centre line and the singles tramline (you will find different spots to exploit different receivers). Serving from your right side, aim a powerful drive serve at the opponent's back centre line(the T). If you drive serve accurately and with power you might get outright winners or a weak reply. If you do it more than once your opponent will stand a bit back and nearer to the centre line. You then vary your serve and put aside your drive serve.
    2. Doubles. When drive serving from the right side, drive serve like in singles but aim for the doubles back T in the centre line. Standing a bit more to your right will make it even more awkward for the receiver. When serving from the left, stand more to the left near the tramlines and aim for the T in the centre at the back doubles service line.

    Remember your drive serves must have power and must be flat. If not flat and if not powerful then the receiver will reply with a stinging return. When do you know if your drive serves are what they ought to be? When the receiver is forced to move to the back of the centre line and when he is forced to take a backhand stance (for drive serving from the right side) to return your serve. Or when you get easy winners.

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