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  1. #1
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    Question "discernably" Service Rule change?

    Hello Everyone,

    I need some help .

    An insider source of mine told me that that the IBF altered the language of the service rules at the same time they changed to Rally Point Scoring.
    Specifically they changed rule 9.1.6 "the shaft of the server's racket at the instance of hitting the shuttle shall be pointing in a downard direction to such an extent that the whole head of the racket is discernably below the whole of the server's hand holding the racket as in Diagram D". Diagram D is the one picture explaining "Discernably" where it shows two fault serves and one leagal serve.

    However I have not heard of this news from anwhere else.
    Can this rumor be confirmed?

    OOPS maybe I should learn to spell!!

    Thank you,
    Toddster
    Last edited by toddster; 06-28-2006 at 06:44 PM.

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    Any one please confirm this? I noticed that some players, eg. Gao Ling, serving without pointing the racket discernably below the shaft at the point of contact with the shuttle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickykong
    Any one please confirm this? I noticed that some players, eg. Gao Ling, serving without pointing the racket discernably below the shaft at the point of contact with the shuttle.
    many professional players gets away with this kind of service

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    From the recent video of Chinese Taipei Open, I notice that Lindan's short services are mostly fault. His racket moved ahead briefly, draw back again and move ahead again, I wonder how come the service judge allowed that?

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    from "Laws of Badminton 2006" as posted in the Badminton India website:

    9.1.5 the whole shuttle shall be below the serverís waist at the instant of being hit by the serverís racket. The waist shall be considered to be an imaginary line round the body, level with the lowest part of the serverís bottom rib;

    9.1.6 the shaft of the serverís racket at the instant of hitting the shuttle shall be pointing in a downward direction;

    The phrase "to such an extent that the whole of the head of the racket is discernibly below the whole of the serverís hand holding the racket" has been removed.

  6. #6
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    Hold your fire, chaps, bercause you are firing aimlessly. What toddster alluded to was a change in the service law to the old one he quoted, and you chaps are firing at the old law.
    The new law is more forgiving. It uses much the same words of the old one except for the deletion of "....racquet is discernibly below the whole of the server's hand..". In its place are the words " The waist shall be considered to be an imaginery line round the body, level with the lowest part of the server's rib." So the waist is now given a more definitive meaning, and the "whole of the head of the racquet is discernibly below the whole of the server's hand holding the racquet" is thrown out. A very realistic and sensible change.
    With this correction, you can use all your fire power you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Hold your fire, chaps, ...... you chaps are firing at the old law.
    You obviously missed Mikej's post in which he quoted the new 2006 laws and answered the question in full and with complete accuracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickykong
    His racket moved ahead briefly, draw back again and move ahead again, I wonder how come the service judge allowed that?
    I have a friend who does this. It is terribly distracting at times, especially since he only does it sometimes. I causes my to shift my weight prematurely!

    I asked him not to do it, and told him that it is a fault. He only shaked my partners hand after the match.

    Is it rude to tell players (with more experience then you) the rules?

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    Exclamation USA Badminton

    Well, I received an email from USA Badminton, stating that descernably has been removed and that USA Badminton has adopted the changes.

    I just think this is a big deal. I believe droping "discernably" is more in line on how International players serve anyway. I believe if umpires followed the letter of the old law, they should have called more service faults, but that is just my humble opinion. This way their practice is more in line with the laws.

    I am just afraid that lower level players will start blasting serves thinking that it is alright. I guess it is time for me to step back from the short service line. Maybe this is a trend towards making the serve more offensive?

    Take care All,
    Toddster

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    Exclamation IBF Statutes

    Wow,

    I have been trying to find the exact wording. I finally scoured the IBF Statutes book, and found that towards the back of Statutes2 (http://www.internationalbadminton.or.../STATUTES2.pdf) on (.pdf page number) 168 of 175 (or page 299 of the book page number).

    The wording that is to be used is as follows:
    "the shaft of the server's racket at the instance of hitting the shuttle shall be pointed in a downward direction".

    The following part is indicated as being omitted "to such an extent that the whole of the head of the racket is discernibly below the whole of the serverís hand holding the racket." Just like MikeJ posted earlier.

    What I think is funny is the "reason for amendment", it states "Service is not meant to kill the game."

    So the serve is no longer defensive for the new Rally Point Scoring System?

    Toddster

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    Interesting...How would they define "downward direction"? Is it just slightly down from being horizontal? Reading the law would seems to indicate that as long your racquet head is pointing slightly down from horizontal, you would be okay. Yeah, this would make a different to how people would serve.

    Good find, guys ...er.. and gals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winex West Can
    Interesting...How would they define "downward direction"? Is it just slightly down from being horizontal? Reading the law would seems to indicate that as long your racquet head is pointing slightly down from horizontal, you would be okay. Yeah, this would make a different to how people would serve.

    Good find, guys ...er.. and gals.


    Besides the racquet shaft pointing in a downwards direction, the shuttle must be below the level of the server's lowest rib. It is just a change to reflect what has been going on.

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    Just wait till the "on-the-fringe" illegal servers get wind of this!

    -dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddster
    I just think this is a big deal. I believe droping "discernably" is more in line on how International players serve anyway. I believe if umpires followed the letter of the old law, they should have called more service faults, but that is just my humble opinion. This way their practice is more in line with the laws.
    I must agree. The vast majority of players seem to serve from very high. As for the angle, Gao Ling and Lee Hyo-jung serve the same way every time. They start with their shafts almost vertical and then in the act of serving they drop the handle down so low that it is very close to horizontal at the point of contact. I can't believe that they were serving legally under the old rule (unless they were also slicing the bird because with the racquet face flat, you can have a shallower angle without breaking the old rule). However, I have seen both of those players faulted on occasion and so we can be sure that the service judges were not simply looking the other way. Maybe they were letting them break the old rule and simply enforcing the new one all along ie. they were only calling faults when the shaft was actually flat or pointed upward.
    Quote Originally Posted by toddster
    Service is not meant to kill the game."
    So the serve is no longer defensive for the new Rally Point Scoring System
    Well, on one hand, it would really suck for a judge to have to decide a game by calling a service fault but changing the rules won't prevent that. The new rally point system seems to involve a lot of points on loss of service, possibly a majority, although I haven't done the research. This stands in stark contrast to the reality in tennis or ping pong, which have always had rally-point systems. Theoretically, a team could win an entire game by only winning one service point. In fact, they could even win 30-29 without winning a single point on their service. A rule change that makes the servers at least less vulnerable (though not outright on the offensive) is probably a good thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winex West Can
    Interesting...How would they define "downward direction"? Is it just slightly down from being horizontal? Reading the law would seems to indicate that as long your racquet head is pointing slightly down from horizontal, you would be okay.
    See figure 1(the red line is obviously the horizontal):

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    Quote Originally Posted by wood_22_chuck
    Just wait till the "on-the-fringe" illegal servers get wind of this!
    Well, we've always had people where I play who serve with their shafts pointed upward and we have some who serve with the shuttle at chest-height and we have some who do both so I don't expect anything to change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJ
    from "Laws of Badminton 2006" as posted in the Badminton India website:
    It's funny that Badminton India has the new laws on their website but that the IBF has only the proposed changes on theirs (in that statutes2.pdf link that toddster pointed out.

    The Korean Badminton Association altered different rules from this apparent IBF decision. They altered rule 9.4 to say that the first movement rather than the first forward movement would be considered the start of the service. They also included a corresponding change to 9.1.7, so that it now states that the racquet must continue (not necessarily forward) from the start of service. In other words, the backswing must now be combined with the rest of a smooth motion service. I wonder what that would mean for cases like the complaints against Lin Dan above(post#4). Theoretically, as long as you didn't stop, you could make a bunch of smooth spirals in the air with your racquet and then finally hit the shuttle and it would be okay. That was not their rationale for changing the rule, though. They said too many Korean players were getting called on service faults so they wanted to nip them in the bud. Perhaps they hadn't considered the implications of that rule change, though. It would prevent deceptive pauses after a backswing, yes, but it would permit multiple, deceptive, smooth changes of direction prior to delivery.

    Oh well, I've looked at the IBF site and the ostensibly more up-to-date Badminton India site and it looks as if this rule change will only affect elite Korean players in domestic tournaments. Club players here ignore all serving rules anyway, except for the ones about where the shuttle is supposed to land. By that I mean that everyone - except myself - will let anyone break any rule and yet the vast majority of people still choose to serve legally despite the knowledge that no one will fault them if they do not.
    Last edited by event; 06-30-2006 at 11:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by event
    It's funny that Badminton India has the new laws on their website but that the IBF has only the proposed changes on theirs (in that statutes2.pdf link that toddster pointed out.
    Not true. If you go to the IBF home page and look at the bottom for a button labelled "New Rally Points System" you will find the new laws in their entirety along with the appendices.

    Alternatively go here: http://www.internationalbadminton.or...ointsystem.asp

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