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  1. #18
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    Thanks ixiaohoui. Still want to be sure, if I use the terms as how they were described in wikipedia, that means in my earlier post then;

    (1) 1. To perform a forearm smash w/o torso rotation - Legs in position, body facing perpendicularly to net and when time is right, twist the forearm while gripping the racket tightly in a CLOCKWISE direction and bang the bird. Thus, I am pronating my forearm. When I do so, I feel my biceps contracted. Analogous to right hand opening a door knob. <------- This statement would have my "pronating" replaced by "Supinating" ? Or actually, the whole movement is incorrect?

    Likewise for point no 2, "supinate" replaced by "pronate" ? Or again, the whole dynamics is wrong regardless of the two jargons ?

    After reading more, I feel a bit confused. So two more questions for you guys. I tried two ways of smashing. Let's ignore the swinging of shoulder bit for now. Concentrate on the wrist. I tried;

    1. Smashing with my wrist "knocking on the door" movement. Well, not really knocking on the door but if you imagine the motion of knocking on a door and you rotate your clenched fist slightly clockwise (say from 12 O'Clock to 1 O'Clock position).

    2. Smashing with my wrist "turning the door knob" or "starting my car engine" movement.

    The former seems easier to coordinate with my shoulder swing than the latter.

    Am I doing what you guys think is the proper way if I use the former? Or is there a third kind of wrist motion?

  2. #19
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    Just realised after reading ixiaohoui's earlier guide to his smashing from video observations, that my questions on door knob and knocing on the door probably could be answered myself.

    The forearm rotation, the last bit is a pronation motion and means that you are opening the door knob counter clockwise as opposed to how we normally open the door. Am I right this time ?

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster
    Just realised after reading ixiaohoui's earlier guide to his smashing from video observations, that my questions on door knob and knocing on the door probably could be answered myself.

    The forearm rotation, the last bit is a pronation motion and means that you are opening the door knob counter clockwise as opposed to how we normally open the door. Am I right this time ?
    I think you have got it. A simpler way to demonstrate this is to put your right arm with clenched fist out in front of you. Turn your fist and rotate your forearm inwards (anti-clockwise) and it is called pronation. Now try it with the fist and arm rotating outwards, in a clockwise direction, and it is called supination.
    Also, do you know that there is a technique that combines both supination and pronation, in that order, for the mother of all power forehand shots?

  4. #21
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    thanks taneepak: but to smash with my right hand, my forearm has to do a pronation (anti-clockwise inward motion) sounds counter-intuitive.

    Let me list my thoughts of how u would smash:

    1. Bird in front view (not on overhead yet), get ready in position. Right leg move backwards and body becomes almost perpendicular to net.

    2. Draw your elbow back like in archery, normal forehand grip unchanged.

    3. Lever ur forearm upwards, normal grip still unchanged so that racket face is facing perpendicular to net and bird, ie as if u are ready to chop the air with ur racket

    4. Swing with ur hip and shoulder and "loosen" elbow so that forearm is stretched from upper arm now to almost straight (gaining length) and then bang the bird with a final SUPINATION (twisting your forehand clockwise) ? This has the tendency of hitting the bird to the left side of the courts because you are clockwise screwing (referenced to your own eye view).

    OR........

    4. Same as above, except for the forearm supination bit. Replace it with no forearm twisting but purely wrist motion, as if you are going to knock a door. The power then comes from purely hips, shoulder swing and final wrist knock.


    Which is more appropriate ? None ?

  5. #22
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    monster: I think you're overcomplicating things way too much ^^, which is what I did for awhile. But in answer to your response. You got it right, except its pronation instead of supination. YES, you might end up hitting the bird to the left side of the court, but that's a timing issue. The way you fix it is by having the racket come down at a 45 degree angle when you rotate your forearm, thereby making it flat.

    I'll reiterate what I said, but didn't stress. Practice in front of a mirror. It does wonders. You can basically point out everything right and wrong if you repeatedly do the stroke in front of a mirror.

    As for taneepak, I was wondering, I saw a picture of Sigit Budiarto smashing and bending his racket to a unbeleiveable degree. I'm guessing that's the product of the pronation/supination combination? =D

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    Maybe I should just forget about the pronate and supinate terms. They just seem to confuse me.

    But do you twist your forearm clockwise after the shoulder swing? And when you do twist, how does the racket face changes in position ? From chopping the air to flat facing the ground ?

  7. #24
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    This seems to have gotten really technical it is confusing. I've got the Xiong Guo Bao video and the phases 'looked' simple enough.
    Right foot pointing at 3 o'clock,
    Left foot at 12 o'clock, about a meter apart?
    Then there's this left hand up, sorta parallel to your right...
    Drop your racket back, elbow pointed in direction of shuttle and, bring in down.. thats pronation isn't it?

    Where do one generally hold the grip when smashing? Near the cone, in the middle or as low as possible? Since the lower the more the leverage? Using forehand grip?

    Maybe a 'slowed' high-def video of a proper smash will help.

    Though the smash isn't all that important in Singles, but..well, you can't deny the effect it has on newbies (like me). I think Fu Hai Feng's Doubles jump smashes is what got me into playing in the first place
    Last edited by DivingBirdie; 08-16-2006 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Edit

  8. #25
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    Forget about pronation and supination, and just try to do a cross court forehand smash from your left side of the court. If you do it well you have probably rotated your forearm the right direction without being drowned in technical terms.

  9. #26
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    Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but taneepak, what's this technique that combines supination and pronation?

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyw85
    Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but taneepak, what's this technique that combines supination and pronation?
    This is a technique a former woman Provincial champion in China teaches her very young students to more than match the bigger and older bully boys in power clears and smashes. It looks a bit strange but I have seen some of the Chinese women players using this technique. It is really very simple. You just rotate your forearm slightly outwards as it is about to reach your shoulder and then rotate it inwards as you hit the shuttle. The forearm in total rotates more and hence more power.

  11. #28
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    Ok, back to the confused query. Does your wrist/forearm move as if you are knocking the door or as if you are opening the door knob ? Assuming right handed again.

  12. #29
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    Mmm i see. Thank Taneepak.


    Monster:
    Door knob, but in the same direction as when you switch from a thumbs up to a thumbs down.

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    The medical boys call it pronation and supination, whether for the feet or forearms. The common words are simply forearm rotation. A more punchy description is the screwdriver test. For a right-hander, screwing a screw with a screwdiver clockwise is medically known as supination, and screwing it anti-clockwise pronation. Now, using the screwdriver test, you can combine a little of both, made to your order, for a little more arm rotation for that liitle bit extra. There are 2 ways to tighten a screw, one is to screw it twice, the other is once but with double the rotation movement. I hope you get the point.

  14. #31
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    ok sounds clear. but smashing with forearm pronating ? ie smashing with forearm twisting anti-clockwise (loosening a screw) ?? shuoldn't it be clockwise ?

  15. #32
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    no it should be counterclockwise. when you twist your forearm counterclockwise, not only you increase the acceleration of your swing, the torque also produces outward force which also powers up the shot.

  16. #33
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    counterclockwise has the tendency of hitting the bird to the right side of your opponents court (your eye's view) ? it just feels physically weird to twist the forearm counterclockwise.

    it's like scooping icecream with ur right hand, more intuitive and normal to scoop it clockwise isn't it ?

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster
    counterclockwise has the tendency of hitting the bird to the right side of your opponents court (your eye's view) ? it just feels physically weird to twist the forearm counterclockwise.

    it's like scooping icecream with ur right hand, more intuitive and normal to scoop it clockwise isn't it ?
    If you follow your clockwise direction for forehand shots to its extreme your shots will come back to land on your feet. The other way it will fling away at its extremity, like the way they launch (fling) spacecrafts to the outer planets.

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