Alternative photos

**taneepak** · 09-02-2008, 12:01 AM

I had bought Sigma Apo, Tamron, and Tokina lenses but ended up selling them or giving them away. The expensive Sigma Apo had its coatings turning cloudy and fogging all the glass elements and became unusable, which I had to throw away. The most expensive part of a lens is in the precision focussing mount, not so much the glasses. That is why brand name lenses are heavy and more a pain to carry around. They also can stand the test of time, weather, moisture, dust, etc.

**ae86trueno** · 09-03-2008, 06:59 AM

Hi Taneepak, Sorry I don't quite understand regarding the focussing mount is the most expensive. But to my knowledge, I would say the glass & built quality are the most expensive part of lenses. Also the faster lenses (bigger aperture) thus bigger glasses will make the price increase astronomical... the Sigma you have, I think its not the coating turn cloudy.. normally thats because it grow fungus on the glass thus make it look cloudy

**red00ecstrat** · 09-03-2008, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

I had bought Sigma Apo, Tamron, and Tokina lenses but ended up selling them or giving them away.

Really? Have they ever made any lens for Leica and Rollie cameras?

Anyway, I have to agree with taneepak this time. In terms of manufacturing or optical quality. No doubt, those originals are indeed better than those made by third party companies. Also, German made lenses are better than Japanese made lenses. I know, coz I'd made compairison between them in the past when I was young and green.
But I always think equipment isn't the key of getting "quality" pictures. In fact, it's all up to the one who use it!
So, just keep shooting!

**ae86trueno** · 09-03-2008, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by red00ecstrat

Have u guys ever tried shooting infrared film in the past? Never? Doesn't matter! Now we will be able to achieve the same effect pretty easily with a little digital point and shoot camera! Why using a digital P&S rather than using a dslr? Check this out! http://www.nature-photography-centra...otography.html
Have fun! And I hope u guys will post some of your infrared photos here in the future!

Hi Red, thanks for the link. I know IR photography before this but still learn few bit and tips from the link

lol I now find it quite amusing looking at my remotes from camera LCD >.< By the way the part I dont understand why the instruction say to use custom WB when the shooting taken in RAW ? I thought only ISO affecting RAW.. WB and the rest is only if saved as jpg or any other than RAW?

**red00ecstrat** · 09-03-2008, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by ae86trueno

the Sigma you have, I think its not the coating turn cloudy.. normally thats because it grow fungus on the glass thus make it look cloudy

Not exactly. Fungus is one thing. But as far as I know. Some of the elements that inside the lens tube was indeed made by gluing two different lenses. The glue will grow old from time to time. Because of that. The quality of our lenses will decline. Just the matter of time!
Please correct me if i was wrong.

**ae86trueno** · 09-03-2008, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by red00ecstrat

But I always think equipment isn't the key of getting "quality" pictures. In fact, it's all up to the one who use it!
So, just keep shooting!

the man behind the gun eh? :P yeah agree with that. I seen somewhere this is discussed to death... I agree regarding the man behind the gun but sometimes gears are quite important too.. example try taking badminton photo with 5.6 lenses.. the gear will be the limiting factor in this condition IMHO.

**ae86trueno** · 09-03-2008, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by red00ecstrat

Not exactly. Fungus is one thing. But as far as I know. Some of the elements that inside the lens tube was indeed made by gluing two different lenses. The glue will grow old from time to time. Because of that. The quality of our lenses will decline. Just the matter of time!
Please correct me if i was wrong.

Thanks for the information Red, well I never knew regarding glueing 2 glass but if thats the case then yeah I guess what happened to Taneepak might be because of the glue. to think about it, won't glue degrade the light quality by alot? or is it special "glassy" glue that does not affect the light when passing through the glue?

**red00ecstrat** · 09-03-2008, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by ae86trueno

won't glue degrade the light quality by alot? or is it special "glassy" glue that does not affect the light when passing through the glue?

I don't know much about that glue ae86! Perhaps it's something specially made for gluing glass!

Glad you've found that IR link useful!

**red00ecstrat** · 09-03-2008, 07:41 AM

Took that shot while having an interview with a guy!

**red00ecstrat** · 09-03-2008, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by ae86trueno

By the way the part I dont understand why the instruction say to use custom WB when the shooting taken in RAW ? I thought only ISO affecting RAW.. WB and the rest is only if saved as jpg or any other than RAW?

I guess it will be much easier for us to handle and to obtain the IR effect that way.

**george@chongwei** · 09-03-2008, 08:22 AM

haha..ntg to do..
so decided to snap some photos and playing with my camera.

enjoy!

**george@chongwei** · 09-03-2008, 08:30 AM

hehe..carz frenzy..

**ctjcad** · 09-03-2008, 08:47 AM

..George:
- I thought in post #1048, you were trying to show the before and after pictures of what happened to the trees...and
- your picture above, post #1049, was that taken in the parking lot of a car dealership??..

*btw, still waiting for your vacation trip pics, you promised to post here for us...

red00ecstrat (Stefan), i hope the interview didn't turn out to be a doozer..

**taneepak** · 09-03-2008, 10:29 AM

Normally a lens design has multiple elements, sometimes with one or two elements being cemented together. Each surface of each glass element, including the surfaces of cemented pairs, are given multiple coating layers to reduce flare. The layers of coatings can be as little as 2 to as many as 12. The Sigma Apo I had had most of the coatings turned greenish which clouded all the elements. I don't know why it happened.
Every lens has to be mounted on a mount. The mount must hold every element coaxial and with the correct separations, irrespective of ambient temperatures. Many thin, steeply curved elements cannot easily be fixed in a lens barrel. The provision of a focusing movement, and for elements to move axially as in a zoom lens design, greatly increases both production costs and difficulties. These difficulties are made even bigger by having to take care of the auto diaphragm mechanism and its coupling to the camera body. If you use cheap and light material like aluminium only instead of brass and a little aluminium for the focusing mount, you may save some costs but at the expense of quality and reliability. Even assembling the elements unto the mount must be perfect. If not the best lens scheme is useless. It is like assembling an intricate high price swiss watch.
For longer focal length lenses a long focusing mount, necessary for focusing near, is going to be heavy and expensive. Alternatively you can opt for a much shorter focusing mount, to cut down weight, length and costs, but this long focal length lens will not be able to focus very close up.

***Oldhand*** · 09-03-2008, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by george@chongwei

haha..ntg to do..
so decided to snap some photos and playing with my camera.

enjoy!

From the quality of the pictures, it's clear that you are, er, playing with the camera, george

**ae86trueno** · 09-03-2008, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by taneepak

Normally a lens design has multiple elements, sometimes with one or two elements being cemented together. Each surface of each glass element, including the surfaces of cemented pairs, are given multiple coating layers to reduce flare. The layers of coatings can be as little as 2 to as many as 12. The Sigma Apo I had had most of the coatings turned greenish which clouded all the elements. I don't know why it happened.
Every lens has to be mounted on a mount. The mount must hold every element coaxial and with the correct separations, irrespective of ambient temperatures. Many thin, steeply curved elements cannot easily be fixed in a lens barrel. The provision of a focusing movement, and for elements to move axially as in a zoom lens design, greatly increases both production costs and difficulties. These difficulties are made even bigger by having to take care of the auto diaphragm mechanism and its coupling to the camera body. If you use cheap and light material like aluminium only instead of brass and a little aluminium for the focusing mount, you may save some costs but at the expense of quality and reliability. Even assembling the elements unto the mount must be perfect. If not the best lens scheme is useless. It is like assembling an intricate high price swiss watch.
For longer focal length lenses a long focusing mount, necessary for focusing near, is going to be heavy and expensive. Alternatively you can opt for a much shorter focusing mount, to cut down weight, length and costs, but this long focal length lens will not be able to focus very close up.

Ah, now I understand more, thanks Taneepak. I just want to confirm what I understand is right, so given an identical lens say, its 100mm 2.8 glass with minimum focus 1meter. It will be more expensive if this lens become 100mm 2.8 with min focus 0.5meter compare to 100mm 1.8 with min focus 1meter?