very good comment abt taufik :)

**ssuly** · 10-31-2006, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by cooler

u got real fact/truth and opinions mixed up.
Even at 100% opinion is not a fact or a truth.
Even with sound reasoning it only give u a theory.

here are some samples:
not too long ago, man believed the earth is flat, the sun spins around the earth. Are these are facts, the truth, or just opinions?

So far, your beliefs on TH are based on no facts, just opinions, shakey at best.

cooler, I should agree for your critical thinking. However, I didn't really mean that basing your opinion with good reasoning and facts will make it become the real truth. But, at least it will be a lot closer to the truth. It will stand on a much stronger ground than just basing your opinion with your own paradigm (your own value and vanity).

about your sample:
at that time, man were trying to find the truth by using both facts and reasoning. However, the man failed to provide a good enough reasoning. It's the fact that sun rises from the east and sets in the west. The man tried to find a reason for that circumstances. The man came up with the idea that the sun spinned around the earth. However, the man failed to notice that his reason is not good enough. Because, the reverse could also reasonably happen that is the earth spins around the sun. The reverse could also reasonably explain why the sun rises from the east and sets in the west.
Not good enough reasoning --> get the man further from the truth.

**phaarix** · 10-31-2006, 12:51 AM

Ack!! I really didn't mean to compare Taufik to John McEnroe (now everyone is talking about it)! They're nothing alike I was merely trying to point out that one person cannot ruin a sport

.

**ssuly** · 10-31-2006, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by pjswift

I understand your input about paradigm.It's clear but requires more thinking than what is required of usual posts. Thanks for enlightening.

pjswift, I really thank you for appreciating my input

. You have my respect for spending a bit of your time giving more thought on it.

**ctjcad** · 10-31-2006, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

In the past nobody would ask me for dvds on Taufik's matches. Now they all want dvds only on matches featuring him, even if he keeps losing. Very strange!

..maybe Taufik's already had it with winning...maybe he prefers to and doesn't mind keep losing now, but instead he will plan ahead of time :
1. when
2. where and
3. how he will lose...making it unpredictable & creative for people watching??..hmm

**X Ball** · 10-31-2006, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by phaarix

Ack!! I really didn't mean to compare Taufik to John McEnroe (now everyone is talking about it)! They're nothing alike I was merely trying to point out that one person cannot ruin a sport

.

Of course, they are nothing alike. It is only a simile to compare the two personalites who are unpredicatable and exhibit recalcitrance.

You are right he cannot ruin the sport. In fact, he is promoting the sport. There is now more to badminton than just LD winning.

**Monster** · 10-31-2006, 02:33 AM

I love this thread. I can even see some with terrorist traits... I wonder if any of them play badminton....

**ssuly** · 10-31-2006, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by cooler

yes, i don't disagree taufik is an exciting player, for now and it isn't due to his winning skills. It is the claim that TH is the greatest player and rhetoric excuses for losng that drives any sane person bonker.

cooler, I really have to say that I'm a bit disappointed with your opinion above. From every word u say, it seems that u totally disrespect TH...I understand that some fans who are too obssesed at him are annoying, and probably u got disappointed by TH's attitude...still u can't hate TH that much until u just totally blind yourself. grow up dude..

Now, we all know that TH is an exciting player NOT JUST because of the fans' claim and the excuses. TH definitely has one of the best all round technique in the world of badminton. keep in mind that it doesn't mean that TH is the greatest player...because the greatest player wins the most of the match like Lin Dan (that's why he's number one).

Many facts support that TH is the world's best natural player. TH's whole body coordinaiton to execute a technique is nearly perfect. That's why the resulting techniques are good. TH can execute nearly perfect half smashes behind his body perfectly. We know that his net technique is awesome. we also know that he has an amazing backhand. we also know that he has powerful smashes.
Therefore, ANYONE who loves badminton is STRONGLY recommmended to watch how TH played his badminton.

The only reason why I just wrote so much facts based positive things on TH is:
In order to open your eyes a bit, don't just view TH from your own paradigm based on your own personal feelings..

**taneepak** · 10-31-2006, 04:35 AM

That is why even the Chinese regard Taufik as a badminton prodigy, but that doesn't mean they approve of his attitude. Even some Indonesian officials are pissed off by his attitude.

**JasonMichael** · 10-31-2006, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by ssuly

cooler, I really have to say that I'm a bit disappointed with your opinion above. From every word u say, it seems that u totally disrespect TH...I understand that some fans who are too obssesed at him are annoying, and probably u got disappointed by TH's attitude...still u can't hate TH that much until u just totally blind yourself. grow up dude..

Now, we all know that TH is an exciting player NOT JUST because of the fans' claim and the excuses. TH definitely has one of the best all round technique in the world of badminton. keep in mind that it doesn't mean that TH is the greatest player...because the greatest player wins the most of the match like Lin Dan (that's why he's number one).

Many facts support that TH is the world's best natural player. TH's whole body coordinaiton to execute a technique is nearly perfect. That's why the resulting techniques are good. TH can execute nearly perfect half smashes behind his body perfectly. We know that his net technique is awesome. we also know that he has an amazing backhand. we also know that he has powerful smashes.
Therefore, ANYONE who loves badminton is STRONGLY recommmended to watch how TH played his badminton.

The only reason why I just wrote so much facts based positive things on TH is:
In order to open your eyes a bit, don't just view TH from your own paradigm based on your own personal feelings..

Ssuly, thanks for the input. This is just what I need to play better badminton today regardless of winning all the time. Before, I used to think I had to win all the time. but that was years ago. Now I just appreciate the game's finer points. I just wanted to point this out in this forum but people keep shooting me down. enough said, before I get shot down again.

Jason.

**kemana** · 10-31-2006, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by JasonMichael

Ssuly, thanks for the input. This is just what I need to play better badminton today regardless of winning all the time. Before, I used to think I had to win all the time. but that was years ago. Now I just appreciate the game's finer points. I just wanted to point this out in this forum but people keep shooting me down. enough said, before I get shot down again.

Jason.

I appreciate ssuly's posts very much too

hope you enjoy your games

**bananaboy** · 10-31-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by ssuly

don't u guys ever REALIZE that this comment about TH is just a matter of different paradigms? (paradigm: the way u view something mostly based on your value and vanity) Therefore, these comments are not based on a solid ground. Their truth is really in doubt.

A simple example how different paradigms work:
If a man steal your money, what do you think of him??
a negative paradigm: he is such a bad guy.
a positive paradigm: if he doesn't steal, can he lives on? --> he's not really a bad guy.
Then, is he truly a bad guy or not? saying that he's such a bad guy because of your feelings after ur money lost is not based on a good reason and facts. The positive paradigm is closer to the truth cuz it's at least based on a good reasoning.

Now back to the real problems about TH...

1. why TH only wins big tournament?
a negative paradigm: he's lazy.
a positive paradigm: he has his own goals and expectations that we've to respect.
The truth (based on good reasoning and facts): if he's lazy how the hell he makes it to a great player that needs extreme hardwork. However, the facts say that he is a very talented one, that would be a good reason why he has quite extreme goals and expectations.

2. why did he walk off the court?
a negative paradigm: he's bad tempered, childish, etc
a positive paradigm: he loses in style, artistic, etc
The truth: The facts say that he's a bit bad tempered, he also hit a spectator once. And how does losing in style sound??? It's not based on a good reason at all.

3. Some people also says that TH is arrogant, thinks highly of himself, etc.
The truth: The facts say that TH admits the greatness of his opponent. TH also regards himself as one of Top players who could beat each other. Therefore, TH doesn't think highly of himself and no arrogance of him spotted.

Conclusion on truth about TH (based on facts and reasoning):

TH is a great and talented badminton player. Because of his talent, he has different expectations than most of players (only win big tournaments). He's not arrogant and he doesn't think highly of himself. However, TH is sometimes bad tempered cuz he can't control his temper (walk off the court, try to hit a spectator,etc).

I just can't resist to say that you have the best explanation of all these paradigms, opinions, and facts stuff... they just seem to contradict with my old university textbooks on philiosophy... Maybe that's a U.S and Canada thing again.

Anyways, with your incredible thinking system... I wouldn't be surprised that if you are "truly" living in the U.S, then you must have voted for "Bush" as president.

**bananaboy** · 10-31-2006, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by ssuly

In order to open your eyes a bit, don't just view TH from your own paradigm based on your own personal feelings..

This makes me rofl, and lmao...

.

"TH's diehard fans are exclusive to the above bolded statement".

I am sure if BC forum does not have such straight rules, this thread would have already turned out to be the biggest flame war of internet forum's history.

**ctjcad** · 10-31-2006, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by ssuly

The only reason why I just wrote so much facts based positive things on TH is:
In order to open your eyes a bit, don't just view TH from your own paradigm based on your own personal feelings..

..ssuly, thanks again for your input...sorry, for snipping rest of post for brevity..

Hmm, I think most of us, incl. cooler, have a pretty reasonable and objective point of view on Taufik. That is we take both the positive *and* the negative things that Taufik has exposed. I'm sure if other players do the same things like what Taufik did, there will be similar reactions to their behaviors.
Sure, he has positive things, but you also can't ignore his negative things...I think that's what cooler, virusvoodoo, even myself and others are trying to get across...

**ssuly** · 10-31-2006, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by ctjcad

..ssuly, thanks again for your input...sorry, for snipping rest of post for brevity..

Hmm, I think most of us, incl. cooler, have a pretty reasonable and objective point of view on Taufik. That is we take both the positive *and* the negative things that Taufik has exposed. I'm sure if other players do the same things like what Taufik did, there will be similar reactions to their behaviors.
Sure, he has positive things, but you also can't ignore his negative things...I think that's what cooler, virusvoodoo, even myself and others are trying to get across...

ctjcad, thanks for your reply..

honestly, after reading their posts, some of these ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS didn't really react the way you think they did, no where near...

If you want the facts, I can easily point out some of those biased provocative posts...
Interestingly, some of these ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS react exactly like TH'DIEHARD FANS...JUST IN AN OPPOSITE VIEW!

This is the reason why..
TH'DIEHARD FANS behaves rather extremely by praises TH like hell, they find excuses for TH, they only view TH from the positive side...
As a reaction to the extreme circumstances above..
ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS came up to the surface...
AND SOME of these ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS just did the extreme reverse, they only view TH from the negative side... they tend to disrespect TH...

and the most important thing is...THE truth said by those pros and cons is highly in doubt...their opinion are mostly biased! not based on a good reasoning and enough facts!
Therefore, TH surely doesn't deserve some of those claims made by TH'DIEHARD FANS and ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS!!

**ctjcad** · 10-31-2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by ssuly

Therefore, TH surely doesn't deserve some of those claims made by TH'DIEHARD FANS and ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS!!

ssuly, thanks again for the input(rest of your post snipped for brevity)...Well, this statement says it all...In a way, I think if you put all those rebuttals by the THDF(Taufik's diehard fans) and ATHDF, i think we can somewhat agree they might be slightly exaggerated, but i'm sure their arguments have some facts/validity behind it(i'm sure you know what those facts are)...Hence you see all those rebuttals/opinions by both sides, even neutral ones..

Essentially everything has 2 sides, as there can't be all positives or all negatives...And in a way, this is kind of a "never ending argument"..

**cooler** · 10-31-2006, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by ssuly

ctjcad, thanks for your reply..

honestly, after reading their posts, some of these ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS didn't really react the way you think they did, no where near...

If you want the facts, I can easily point out some of those biased provocative posts...
Interestingly, some of these ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS react exactly like TH'DIEHARD FANS...JUST IN AN OPPOSITE VIEW!

This is the reason why..
TH'DIEHARD FANS behaves rather extremely by praises TH like hell, they find excuses for TH, they only view TH from the positive side...
As a reaction to the extreme circumstances above..
ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS came up to the surface...
AND SOME of these ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS just did the extreme reverse, they only view TH from the negative side... they tend to disrespect TH...
and the most important thing is...THE truth said by those pros and cons is highly in doubt...their opinion are mostly biased! not based on a good reasoning and enough facts!
Therefore, TH surely doesn't deserve some of those claims made by TH'DIEHARD FANS and ANTI-TH'DIEHARD FANS!!

hey ssuly, we not anti-TH fans, we are just realists trying to contain diehard TH fan's overflowing bubbly euphoric expression, like u guys on some kind of upper (a stimulant drug

) , about TH.

Even TH fans have said TH doesn't care much about what people view about him, so why the over appreciation?

**ssuly** · 10-31-2006, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by ctjcad

ssuly, thanks again for the input(rest of your post snipped for brevity)...Well, this statement says it all...In a way, I think if you put all those rebuttals by the THDF(Taufik's diehard fans) and ATHDF, i think we can somewhat agree they might be slightly exaggerated, but i'm sure their arguments have some facts/validity behind it(i'm sure you know what those facts are)...Hence you see all those rebuttals/opinions by both sides, even neutral ones..

Essentially everything has 2 sides, as there can't be all positives or all negatives...And in a way, this is kind of a "never ending argument"..

ctjcad, I'm exactly in the same mind as you that this argument is a "never ending argument". Both pros and cons seem to develop basicly from the same natural circumstances, therefore, they should not even have to blame each other. At last, this argument should never exist.

However, as humans we can't afford not to have this kind of pros and cons arguments. As we can't control this kind of naturally born argument, the only thing we can do is to find something meaningful out of it.

Although this argument seems to be never ending and meaningless, we could find it meaningful if we look at the BIGGER IDEAL PICTURE. No matter how much the pros and cons talk about their ideas, they will cancel out each other in a bigger picture. If the process of cancelling out those opposite views is ideal (exactly same domination from the pros and cons), then the truth can be revealed between them.

The only reason why I wrote my posts in this thread is just because I'm really worried that the ANTI-TH'S DIEHARD FANS have dominated too much. Because of this, we're getting further away from the truth about TH.