Help! My knot keeps slipping!

[Quasimodo]

I thought about doing this, but don't you lose some tension when you tension the starting knot string before tying the knot?

Btw, I am using the single string method (2 knots).

All right, I'm thoroughly confused now. How do you use a starting knot if you're doing a 1-piece job?

[Pete LSD]

Re-reading again after a couple of hours, I am confused also.

[Neil Nicholls]

I've never used a starting knot anchored on an untensioned string so I have no idea if it should work or not. I would expect it to not work as well as when anchored on a tensioned string.

An alternative would be to use a starting clamp instead of a starting knot.

Jug8man strings side to side, but I don't remember how he starts.

[R20190]

Apologies for confusing you guys, I'm new to stringing so may have got some of my terminology wrong. Let me try to explain what I have done in simple terms.

I have been using the technique as shown on this site: http://www.prospeed.com.my/mainstring.htm
This what I used:
Machine: Eagnas 6-point Wind-tension, no flying clamps only fixed ones.
String: Yonex BG-65Ti
Tension: 27lb
Racquet: Ti-10

This is what I did:

1. Using a single piece of string I pre-strung (free-strung) my racquet - i.e. weaved it by hand, no tension applied.

2. On completing the free-stinging I am left with the two ends of the string (one end at the top and end at the bottom). So I wanted to anchor the shorter end of the string (which comes out of 12B) to the main string on 7B at the bottom of the racquet head.
3. I used the 2-half hitch knot to tie this to the main string on 7B. (But also tried other knots.)
4. Once I tied this knot, I clamped the main string on 7B so I could start tensioning this first string (the outtermost side string).
Can someone with experience with the pre-stringing technique tell me how they start the tensioning of the strings? I.e what knots to tie and where, which string to tension first etc.

[R20190]

I've never used a starting knot anchored on an untensioned string so I have no idea if it should work or not. I would expect it to not work as well as when anchored on a tensioned string.

An alternative would be to use a starting clamp instead of a starting knot.

Jug8man strings side to side, but I don't remember how he starts.

This is what I thought as well, I never understood why I should tie a start knot anchor on an untensioned string as it just doesn't make sense. But if I tension this first main string before tying the knot it seems a little strange.

I suppose I could clamp this start string as you suggested but wouldn't I end up with the same problem when I come to tie the knot later?

I tried the the "starting knot" as shown on the website someone posted earlier, this helped a little, it didn't slip as much but it was still slipping.

Also, the knots are not only slipping, but the tail of the knot can be seen getting shorter and shorter as tension is applied. I don't think it is to do with the "tightness" of the knot as I tug my knots quite firmly.

[DinkAlot]

Can someone with experience with the pre-stringing technique tell me how they start the tensioning of the strings? I.e what knots to tie and where, which string to tension first etc.

You should be able to figure out everything with the image below. Divide the string equally and pull from the middle.

[Quasimodo]

...
I have been using the technique as shown on this site: http://www.prospeed.com.my/mainstring.htm
...
4. Once I tied this knot, I clamped the main string on 7B so I could start tensioning this first string (the outtermost side string).
Can someone with experience with the pre-stringing technique tell me how they start the tensioning of the strings? I.e what knots to tie and where, which string to tension first etc.

Ah, you're starting from the side. The starting knot bit makes more sense, now.

All right, then, yes, if you're using this method, you'd have to tie the knot to an untensioned string. The guy doesn't specify exactly what knot he uses, but he does mention to wrap it around a few times to bulk it up. A double half-hitch is probably not enough. Try the fishermen knot, but with 4 or 5 turns rather than 2.

Personally, I'd suggest tensioning the mains from the middle. Refer to Dink's pictures. Leave a couple of loops at 1T-2T on both the short and long sides, and work from the middle going outward. No worries about starting knots then and you can use double half-hitch knots to tie off the mains on the short side and the crosses at the top.

FWIW.

[Pete LSD]

Ahhhh, Quasi figured out , Dink Dink Dink!!!

[R20190]

I'm glad it makes more sense now, as you can see I'm really not experienced in this.

I have tried bulking up the knot but it still slips through the grommet! I will do a search for the fisherman's knot, but if you have a diagram handy please let me know!

The method as shown on the link I posted is the only method of pre-stringing I know. If theres another way of doing it, please let me know.

I have tried to make sense of DinkAlot's photos, I understand that by leaving a loop you can start tensioning the main strings from the centre outwards. And I can see that by doing it this way I can tie my start knot onto a tensioned main string. But will my knot still slip or does tying to a tensioned main string make all the difference?

Also, you have cut the other end very short, will there be sufficient string (as you tension) to make that end long enough to tie down?

[Pete LSD]

It shouldn't slip.

You should consult Jug8man for starting the main from one side. He is the expert in that method.

I'm glad it makes more sense now, as you can see I'm really not experienced in this.

I have tried bulking up the knot but it still slips through the grommet! I will do a search for the fisherman's knot, but if you have a diagram handy please let me know!

The method as shown on the link I posted is the only method of pre-stringing I know. If theres another way of doing it, please let me know.

I have tried to make sense of DinkAlot's photos, I understand that by leaving a loop you can start tensioning the main strings from the centre outwards. And I can see that by doing it this way I can tie my start knot onto a tensioned main string. But will my knot still slip or does tying to a tensioned main string make all the difference?

Also, you have cut the other end very short, will there be sufficient string (as you tension) to make that end long enough to tie down?

[Quasimodo]

I have tried bulking up the knot but it still slips through the grommet! I will do a search for the fisherman's knot, but if you have a diagram handy please let me know!

In the link I mentioned earlier with diagrams of various tie-off knots, the starting knot depicted there is sometimes also called fishermen knot. I'm not quite sure why 'cause I've never been a fisherman.

Another suggestion to help prevent the knot from slipping into the grommet is to use a starting clamp to hold on to the tail as you tension it. In essence, you'd be tightening the knot from both ends.

I have tried to make sense of DinkAlot's photos, I understand that by leaving a loop you can start tensioning the main strings from the centre outwards. And I can see that by doing it this way I can tie my start knot onto a tensioned main string. But will my knot still slip or does tying to a tensioned main string make all the difference?

Again, you can also hold on to the tail when you clamp off.

A double half-hitch should be sufficient. If you'd like you can do a triple half-hitch or a half-hitch followed by a pro. knot.

Also, you have cut the other end very short, will there be sufficient string (as you tension) to make that end long enough to tie down?

Yes. The string will stretch as you start tensioning it. By the time you get to the top, you'll have plenty of excess string.

HTH.

[DinkAlot]

Here are the pictures of the DinkALot Knot...

...oooops, problem ULing pictures, hang on a few minutes...

[R20190]

Thanks a lot guys!

Dinkalot, looking forward to seeing these photos!

[DinkAlot]

Will post more pictures later, just got a call from Coach Alex...time to play BAD, Coach Alex and student vs. Mona and me.

If the grommet holes are really big, like on a SOTX Woven 7, I sometimes do a triple half-hitch with twist.

I'll explain why I do this knot later on...tonight or tomorrow morning.

[taneepak]

Frankly, I don't understand what you are saying, which means I don't understand why your starting knot is slipping.
As I understand it, you have a machine with two fixed clamps and you string 1-piece with two knots. Simply put, you cannot have a starting knot and you do not need a starting clamp. Just use your fixed clamp to hold one end (throat end) of the first main string, you then pull and tension this main string, and then use the second fixed clamp to hold the other end (top) of this first tensioned string. Go on to the second main string, pull and tension, and then use the last fixed clamp to hold. Repeat until you have pulled and tensioned all the mains and then tie the first knot on the already tensioned main string. You can then remove this clamp, but not the one that still holds the other end of the main string.
In the above, the first fixed clamp is not being moved, only the second one is.
Having finished the mains, you then go on to the crosses.
BTW, this is a very old method of stringing. It would be better to start the mains from the middle.

[R20190]

Thanks Taneepak, I understand what you are saying. I know its not ideal tensioning from the side first, its better to start from the middle out - and alternating left-right. But I only realised this once I had finished prestringing this and started to tension.

Anyhow, I'll start again from scratch and hopefully should be ok this time.

I wanted to learn prestringing as I didn't have a solution for threading a cross string through a grommet with a tensioned main. I basically couldn't thread it through - ended up using a needle and pliers.

[zasboy]

Thanks Quasimodo and Pete LSD. I never knew about the 'Pro Knot' and will try it out as a my tie-off knot on the next string job. Looks like a very solid knot and better than the double half-hitch knot that I been using.

But I got a question regarding about the starting knot. I use a two piece method and the starting knot is causing a problem for me. In my opinion, the knot looks small and when I would tension the first cross, the knot will sometime go through the grommet So is there any way around this problem? I don't know if there is another starting type knot I could use? I could use the Pro Knot, or double half hitch but aren't those consider tie-off knots? Maybe I am confusing the term starting and tie-off