User Tag List

Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Results 137 to 146 of 146
  1. #137
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Jakarta
    Posts
    12,100
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisna
    I agree...

    By the way, Sylvinna and Belaetrix won't be sent to Pelatnas unless Pelatnas shape up [managerially and financially]. Somehow, without coordination, Djarum and Jaya Raya think the same way. Since the two are argueably the best Juniors of 2006, the clubs would rather train them internally. Thus, last time when they were called up for selection, they weren't even sent to try out.

    As for next year's Pelatnas selection, I also still doubt whether those two will be sent to try out. Things have not improved much in Cipayung yet... If the clubs have extra funds, they will sculpture Sylvi and Bela themselves...
    I think it too.
    Currently Pelatnas for Single player isn't better if compared with Djarum or Jaya Raya clubs. This is the reason why Indonesia difficult to find 4th MS in TC. Much different with condition in early 90s, INA MS was over supply with Ardy, Allan, Hermawan, Joko, Bambang, Fung & Haryanto Arby. All these players were trained by Rudy Hartono when junior.

    Christian as senior coach in double was stayed in Cipayung with highly dedication, so far not much problem with double player generation.
    Rudy Hartono don't have much time to stay in Pelatnas Cipayung and he came there rarely. Most of Single coach are still beginner, "Out of date" technically or "trial and error" methods. Not strange much players were injury and not good progress like Sony Dwi Kuncoro, also some these players should be has better performance Silvi Antarini, Maria Kristin, Firdasari.

    It will be hard choice, train in Clubs or Pelatnas. Pia Zebadiah had same problems before join to Pelatnas, but I think she has found the solving. Watching the progress, I prefer Pia still trained in Jaya Raya too. When in club, she beat some Pelatnas player like Wiwis Meyliana, Rosaria easily and almost beat Maria Kristin. In Pelatnas looked her performance is far from Maria and lost to club player Sylvinna Kurniawan.
    Last edited by Sandy; 11-29-2006 at 10:44 AM.

  2. #138
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    5,893
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy
    I think it too.
    Currently Pelatnas for Single player isn't better if compared with Djarum or Jaya Raya clubs. This is the reason why Indonesia difficult to find 4th MS in TC. Much different with condition in early 90s, INA MS was over supply with Ardy, Allan, Hermawan, Joko, Bambang, Fung & Haryanto Arby. All these players were trained by Rudy Hartono when junior.

    It will be hard choice, train in Clubs or Pelatnas. Pia Zebadiah had same problems before join to Pelatnas, but I think she has found the solving. Watching the progress, I prefer Pia still trained in Jaya Raya too. When in club, she beat some Pelatnas player like Wiwis Meyliana, Rosaria easily and almost beat Maria Kristin. In Pelatnas looked her performance is far from Maria and lost to club player Sylvinna Kurniawan.
    I am pretty sure Ardy, Hermawan, Joko, Fung, and Haryanto was never trained by Rudy Hartono because they were not from Jaya Raya nor are they from Suryanaga... they were trained by Tong Sin Fu [for sure]... They always talk about Mr. Tong favorably and in high esteem...

    As for Pia... I think you are right. I was surprised myself that Pia was beaten by Sylvi. Later on, Sylvi advanced to Surabaya and Malaysia Satellite... maybe she is good... Anyway, I think Ibu Retno of Jaya Raya would have held on to Pia longer if she had her way....

    My opinion: judging from Pia's maneuverability, Pia will be a good doubles player, but won't be as successful as a singles player. Pelatnas is a good place for doubles development. Many good partner choices and good coaches....

  3. #139
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    2,085
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sandy, Badmania, and Krisna,

    Thank you for sharing your insight on Indonesia Badminton. We don't seem to get enough of this here unlike the more publicized (and repeated & repeated) Malaysian Badminton scene.

    I was hoping to find out all your opinion about Indra Gunawan as a coach. Like how his knowledge and contribution stands / compares in the heirachy of Indonesia Badminton. Perhaps more details about his achievements, contributions and succesfull protoges he has developed.

    Thank you so much in advance.

    TBBMBB(N)

  4. #140
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    5,893
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Indra Gunawan?

    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man
    Sandy, Badmania, and Krisna,

    Thank you for sharing your insight on Indonesia Badminton. We don't seem to get enough of this here unlike the more publicized (and repeated & repeated) Malaysian Badminton scene.

    I was hoping to find out all your opinion about Indra Gunawan as a coach. Like how his knowledge and contribution stands / compares in the heirachy of Indonesia Badminton. Perhaps more details about his achievements, contributions and succesfull protoges he has developed.

    Thank you so much in advance.

    TBBMBB(N)
    First of all, let me state that I do not know him personally... and actually have never met him in person.

    The opinion of the people that know him [club administrators, former Pelatnas players, and people within PBSI] have all been negative. Always giving him the thumbs down.

    Actually, just one hour ago, I was playing badminton with a former Pelatnas singles player, he was coached by Tong Sin Fu in the 90s. Indra was the assistant coach of the singles players. He said Indra was not helpful at all. Cannot correct the technical mistakes or give solution to problems that a player has. Also, he said Indra copied Tong's program blindly without a deep understanding of what's behind it. So, when later on Tong was assigned to coach the doubles team and Indra was in charge of the singles team, Indra just said do this do that according to what he had copied before without regards to the individual player's need. The former Pelatnas player even gave examples of movements that Tong could solve for him and Indra could not even figure out what was the basic problem...

    Some other comments that I hear in the past also include things like he is arrogant [maybe to cover up inadequecies] and monetarily greedy... I don't think any of the 5 big clubs of Indonesia and Pelatnas have any intentions of hiring him. They all know of his track record and reputation.

    Again, I am just passing the stories that I heard. Please, you cannot take my word for it.

  5. #141
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    18,448
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I would echo the opinions given above. Given that Fang Kaixiang is currently the coach of Djarum in WS, it's unlikely that Djarum will "give" Sylvinna up for Pelatnas so easily Unless of course Fang also move to Pelatnas, a scenario which I doubt will happen

  6. #142
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    223
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I remembered that Indoensia government did not want to give Tong Xin Fu Indonesian citizenship...I think our government was really stupid....now he trains chinese again...It seems that like in tennis, we are so arrogant and not hiring foreigner to train Indoensian athlete, except those Soccer...now PBSI did not wnat to use Liang Chiu Shia as well...I am not sure Hendrawan is right guy to coach, not bad but we need a better one..Hope they can promote Fang Kai Xiang to pelatnas

  7. #143
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Jakarta
    Posts
    12,100
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just realize that Coach re-generation is much more difficult rather than player re-generation. Christian Hadinata has coached in Double Pelatnas for long time, no doubt that INA Double achievement was depend on his dedication. PBSI still didn't find the suitable coach in Single, Indra Gunawan was assistant of Tong Xin Fu and Hendrawan & Joko Suprianto were assistant of Indra Gunawan.

    If PBSI want to keep "centralize" National Training, they should hire the best coach in Pelatnas. Ironical they couldn't hire the new coach with "no money" reason while a club already hired coach from China.
    Some good experienced coach who stay in clubs but it wasn't easy to pull in them, PBSI should consider "Coach re-generation" in this club.

    In Kejurnas, Rudy Hartono give opinion Pelatnas to "de-centralize", centralize only for big/team event, but Icuk Sugiarto against this idea. Christian Hadinata was excited see some junior players and hoped PBSI re-build Pelatnas Pratama (Junior Pelatnas) again.

    Badminton has grown as professional sport and should be compare with tennis. 2 player status on tennis, Full Professional player or Association player.
    As Full Professional Player has freedom to train, choose the coach, choose where to play and get the sponsorships (with their own money).
    As Association player, they have to following the rule from the association (who give the facilities & coach) about prize money, sponsorships also choosing the tournament.
    Mostly Top Tennis Women China player are Association player Li Na, Zheng Jie, Yan Zi, Sun Tian Tian exception Shuai Peng.

    A Little different is double, double in tennis 2nd or 3rd priority much different with badminton. Some badminton fans like to watch MD match as most entertainment. I think most of double player want "centralize".

    Just my opinion, PBSI should give these 2 option as association player or pro player (under club or individual). If choose as association player, the player have to sign in some agreement (included rules when a player left Pelatnas).
    Last edited by Sandy; 11-30-2006 at 06:32 PM.

  8. #144
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    2,085
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Krisna,

    Thank you for sharing and stating clearly the form of information. Very interesting things to hear, and i've also heard that he's a difficult person as your stories said. Either way, hope the best for everyone.

    Thanks

    TBBMBB(N)


    Quote Originally Posted by Krisna
    First of all, let me state that I do not know him personally... and actually have never met him in person.

    The opinion of the people that know him [club administrators, former Pelatnas players, and people within PBSI] have all been negative. Always giving him the thumbs down.

    Actually, just one hour ago, I was playing badminton with a former Pelatnas singles player, he was coached by Tong Sin Fu in the 90s. Indra was the assistant coach of the singles players. He said Indra was not helpful at all. Cannot correct the technical mistakes or give solution to problems that a player has. Also, he said Indra copied Tong's program blindly without a deep understanding of what's behind it. So, when later on Tong was assigned to coach the doubles team and Indra was in charge of the singles team, Indra just said do this do that according to what he had copied before without regards to the individual player's need. The former Pelatnas player even gave examples of movements that Tong could solve for him and Indra could not even figure out what was the basic problem...

    Some other comments that I hear in the past also include things like he is arrogant [maybe to cover up inadequecies] and monetarily greedy... I don't think any of the 5 big clubs of Indonesia and Pelatnas have any intentions of hiring him. They all know of his track record and reputation.

    Again, I am just passing the stories that I heard. Please, you cannot take my word for it.

  9. #145
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    u.s.a.
    Posts
    19,157
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Off topic - How about PBSI giving this idea a thought..

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy
    Just realize that Coach re-generation is much more difficult rather than player re-generation. Christian Hadinata has coached in Double Pelatnas for long time, no doubt that INA Double achievement was depend on his dedication. PBSI still didn't find the suitable coach in Single, Indra Gunawan was assistant of Tong Xin Fu and Hendrawan & Joko Suprianto were assistant of Indra Gunawan.

    If PBSI want to keep "centralize" National Training, they should hire the best coach in Pelatnas. Ironical they couldn't hire the new coach with "no money" reason while a club already hired coach from China.
    Some good experienced coach who stay in clubs but it wasn't easy to pull in them, PBSI should consider "Coach re-generation" in this club.

    In Kejurnas, Rudy Hartono give opinion Pelatnas to "de-centralize", centralize only for big/team event, but Icuk Sugiarto against this idea. Christian Hadinata was excited see some junior players and hoped PBSI re-build Pelatnas Pratama (Junior Pelatnas) again.
    Sandy, some interesting thoughts there(esp. abt the comparison with tennis)..But i'll just give my 2 cents on these above(rest of post snipped for brevity)..
    IMO, how about giving some well deserved rewards to their loyal coaches, esp. for Mr. Hadinata(at least on the financial side & no, i'm not pushing for him)...How about PBSI showing some respect(s) to them for what they've brought and sacrificed for Indonesian badminton..Reading your last statement which i've highlighted in bold, shows how dedicated Mr. Hadinata is = his love & passion for the game is undeniable..Can PBSI folks see this??. ..
    Imagine if he decide to leave Pelatnas a long while back, i wonder what the Pelatnas doubles condition will be like??..Thank goodness there are still a few people like Mr. Hadinata out there..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 11-30-2006 at 10:22 PM.

  10. #146
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    5,893
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy
    If PBSI want to keep "centralize" National Training, they should hire the best coach in Pelatnas. Ironical they couldn't hire the new coach with "no money" reason while a club already hired coach from China.
    Some good experienced coach who stay in clubs but it wasn't easy to pull in them, PBSI should consider "Coach re-generation" in this club.

    In Kejurnas, Rudy Hartono give opinion Pelatnas to "de-centralize", centralize only for big/team event, but Icuk Sugiarto against this idea. Christian Hadinata was excited see some junior players and hoped PBSI re-build Pelatnas Pratama (Junior Pelatnas) again.

    Badminton has grown as professional sport and should be compare with tennis. 2 player status on tennis, Full Professional player or Association player.
    As Full Professional Player has freedom to train, choose the coach, choose where to play and get the sponsorships (with their own money).
    As Association player, they have to following the rule from the association (who give the facilities & coach) about prize money, sponsorships also choosing the tournament.
    Mostly Top Tennis Women China player are Association player Li Na, Zheng Jie, Yan Zi, Sun Tian Tian exception Shuai Peng.

    A Little different is double, double in tennis 2nd or 3rd priority much different with badminton. Some badminton fans like to watch MD match as most entertainment. I think most of double player want "centralize".

    Just my opinion, PBSI should give these 2 option as association player or pro player (under club or individual). If choose as association player, the player have to sign in some agreement (included rules when a player left Pelatnas).
    Aaah, that's so right! I agree completely, Sandy. That's very fair. But, right now, PBSI is still in an unfair agreement with Yonex. Basically, the agreement said that any player representing Indonesia who competes in a 5* or 6* tournament and any player who is in the top 1 to 30 ranking has to wear Yonex. This applies to all Indonesians whether in Pelatnas or not.

    So basically, it is very hard for an aspiring Indonesian player to become a top player without getting sponsorship other than with Yonex. Right now Yonex refuse to pay the other non-Pelatnas player any money even though they are in the top 1 - 30, because the agreement with PBSI officials is that Yonex already payed for ALL Indonesian players. In reality, the money only goes to Pelatnas [or in other words, goes through PBSI officials first]....

    This contract has been going on for around 20 years. It expires in October 2008 but can be renewed [yet again]. Unless this clause in the contract is changed that it applies only to Pelatnas players, not ALL Indonesians, then forget about professionalism in Indonesian badminton. The same old disfunctional thing will go on and on....

    I happen to talk to some PBSI officials. Some don't even realize that there is such a clause in the contract and that it damages Indonesian Badminton [this includes Pak Setiyoso who cannot read English while the Yonex contract is in English and he didn't master the situation]. Some know and don't like it but think they don't have other viable options to get funds [which is actually not true]. Some [mostly former players who are now coaching or in Bidang Pembinaan] know that it is very unfair and prefer individual contracts, but can't do anything because they are not the decision makers.

    There are also greedy people like the contract as is because they can get money out of it even though they are not even playing, coaching, training, or toiling every day on the courts.... They just know the contract produces money for the Association and they are in the Association as 'administrators', who work lazily and mostly do nothing but make things difficult for people who have to pass through their 'red tape' barricade. They are the leeches of Indonesian Badminton... [they are the probably worst kind of parasites in the Badminton World]

    In my opinion this disfunctional Yonex contract has to go first before Indonesian Badminton can see a bright future. Let the market forces shape the contract sizes of the players. If they are bad players, then they get cheap sponsors. If they are good players, then they will get great contracts $$$. And the different advertisers will enter a media war promoting the atheletes they sponsor. Badminton will be in the limelight again... Right now, since Yonex monopolize the top players without any threat from other brands encroaching the top players, they do almost nothing to promote the top players in the media...

Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Similar Threads

  1. Players in alor star
    By Calvin789 in forum Malaysia
    Replies: 0
    : 04-14-2011, 11:39 PM
  2. Welcome to Alor Star Malaysia Internatonal Challenge 2007
    By kokcheng in forum 2007 Tournaments
    Replies: 180
    : 11-19-2007, 09:06 AM
  3. Sri Lanka International Satellite 2006 Results
    By blackrose in forum 2006 Tournaments
    Replies: 4
    : 11-15-2006, 03:27 AM
  4. Singapore Satellite 2006
    By magical_phoenix in forum 2006 Tournaments
    Replies: 69
    : 09-05-2006, 07:13 AM
  5. Jakarta Satellite 2006
    By gemini12 in forum 2006 Tournaments
    Replies: 17
    : 04-18-2006, 05:25 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •