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Thread: Is Lin Dan's Serve Illegal?
05-29-2006, 06:29 PM #1
Lin Dan cheating on his serve?
I am actually conducting a physiological and technical study using the Gade/Lin Dan semi-final match at the China Masters in 2006.
It seems that, somehow, Lin Dan is hitting the feathers first when in serves with his forehand.
The first pic, from above, shows he never hit the nose of the shuttle but the feathers.
In the bottom pic, you will notice that he succeeds in doing so by throwing the bird instead of simply droping it.
This is really strange.
05-29-2006, 06:45 PM #2
Unfortunately i'm not an expert so i can't see with pictures if there's anything that could be matter of discussion about cheating. I just wanted to ask if the service had been the crucial point of the match. I aven't seen this match, so...If Peter Gade had lost most of the points with a strange deceptive service from Lin Dan, that sure must be something that need to be discuss. If not...
05-29-2006, 07:03 PM #3
The fact is that Lin Dan's forehand service is always the same and he seems to be hitting the feathers first which is prohibited by the rules.
As a matter of fact, even Lin Dan backhand serve is faulty as he jocks the head of his racket prior to the serve, not always, most of the time.
Rules are nade to stick by.
When they become arbitrary, the game itself become arbitrary.
05-29-2006, 07:54 PM #4
What's the time lapse between those frames? The recovery time of feather shuttles is quite quick. IIRC, it's in some hundreths of a second. So, it can be difficult to judge what the contact point actually is.
05-29-2006, 08:57 PM #5
the images are just made to seem like he's serving illegally.
from all of the matches i've seen, his serves are perfectly fine. the shuttle does not tumble or spin or do anything abnormal in terms of flight.
05-29-2006, 09:12 PM #6
Maybe he is trying it out in China Masters. Since its his home game.
05-29-2006, 09:50 PM #7
But I have noticed he has an error in his backhand serve. He jerks it back once before he actually serves which is illegal. He is consistent and honestly, in play, it really doesn't do any harm. However, I would think for a player who plays as much as he does, the umps should have caught it. Also you would expect the world #1 to be able to serve properly no?
05-29-2006, 10:03 PM #8
I don't think we are qualified to be a judge, simply because we were not there. That is why they have a service judge. Also the spectators and the so-called aggrieved opponents would not have remained silent.
05-29-2006, 10:24 PM #9Originally Posted by taneepak
05-29-2006, 10:29 PM #10
I would find little problem with that if he _always_ did the jerk motion on his backhand serve.
But, no. At times he does serve without the jerking motion.
The serves of Gade, Hidayat, Lee... are all perfectly legal.
Not Lin Dan's.
05-29-2006, 11:31 PM #11Originally Posted by sergesa
You speak very strongly about what you're saying here; that would mean either that you're trying to hurt his reputation, or you seriously think he's a a cheater. I'd just like to say that if you Really are concerned about the legality of his actions, take it up with the right officials, esp before making statements like the one above about his serve being illegal. If you have the proper evidence, then it will prove that he is a cheater, and will have done the Badminton community a favor by pointing this out. Less gossip, more justice!
05-29-2006, 11:43 PM #12
Talking about how Lin Dan cheats, nothing is more annoying than seeing him turning his back against the umpire and start working on the feathers to slow down the birdie. I have seen him doing it so many times and got away with it.
05-29-2006, 11:59 PM #13Originally Posted by chibe_K
Let us be sensible. Do not try to be the umpire, service judge, all the line judges, and the tournament referee.
05-30-2006, 12:34 AM #14
Look here people,
I am doing this work to prepare a very serious training program in badminton.
So, the first thing I do is get the best 21 pointer so far. That happens to be Gade against Lin Dan in the semis of the 2006 China Masters.
I get in Vegas Video and I trim all the non playing stuff to get a precise idea of how many playing time there is compared to rest time… and get that into a database for future use.
In the course of this work I get to the fifth exchange of the match… Note the 3-1 score in favor of the Dane… and I can’t believe my eyes: the sequence definitely shows that Lin Dan is NOT hitting the shuttle on the nose. You will notice that the shuttle never changes shape and is driven forward without ever tumbling.
I have included the full sequence with the 8 frames without jumping any.
This is not doctoring: anybody who has the match will clearly see this.
How could that be?
So I went further in the match and, bingo, one can see how Lin Dan does it (that was my second set of pics): he throws the shuttle which will never tumble and he will eventually hit the feathers first.
He does this throwing motion _every_ time he serves on his forehand.
This was a complete surprise to me.
I am not trying to smudge Lin Dan, I am only calling what I see.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
As I have pointed out, Lin Dan’s jerky motion on his backhand serve is _absolutely_ illegal. And he does not always do it. This simple fact removes any possibility of a lousy alibi: “hey! I can’t help it!”
YET, I have NEVER seen him sanctioned for this serve. Any one cares to challenge this?
And the IBF knows it.
Now, I suppose you want me to send an email to the IBF and remind them that, according to their rules, the service starts when the racquet goes forward and it can never stop to go forward? That Mr. Lin Dan violates this rule all the time?
05-30-2006, 12:45 AM #15
I think this thread should be renamed from "cheating" to "faulting" or something else. IMHO, cheating is a bit too harsh, especially when there are umpires and referees around during the match. Also, if PG (or any of his opponents) believed the serve is not allowed or unfair, he would have voiced it out during the match. PG or any Pro players would have enough experience to see how the shuttle react after the serve. Also, I think low serve in a game of Single is not as crucial as Double. Just my 2 cents.
05-30-2006, 01:26 AM #16
The video quality is poor-there are double images. It doesn't say anything. It would be very poor evidence. BTW have you ever seen Lin Dan play live? Also Lin Dan has played in almost all the countries in the world, under all sorts of umpires and line and service judges. Perhaps you see something they don't?
05-30-2006, 01:35 AM #17Originally Posted by sergesa
I have seen LD faulted on his backhand serve for the forward back forward motion. And I've seen the action ignored by the same service judge in the same game. And I've seen other players with similar serves both faulted and ignored.
The same problems, i.e. consistency of application of laws, exist in other sports.
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