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    Default it's all in the wrist, but how?

    Hi all,

    was just watching PG vs TH -from what I think is the 05 surdirmancup-
    and it's really weird to see their strokes are so different...their 'hitting style'




    and I threw in LD for the mix...

    what I see is Peter uncocking his wrist to the extreme (like when you do the "bla bla" sign, or try to make a fist-puppet in front of a flashlight ) before he hits as in the picture.
    while Taufik has a very relaxed looking uncocked wirst until he hits...
    LD seems 'mediocre' holding a reasonably taught wrist when he smashes...

    is this a difference in training? personal-technique? I find it really intriguing, but I can't make anythign out of it...(and I wouldn't know what to search for in the forums...)
    Last edited by jerby; 12-02-2006 at 05:20 AM.

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    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    The answer: yes.


    I know, a lot of help I am. Hey, it's 3:45am here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    The answer: yes.


    I know, a lot of help I am. Hey, it's 3:45am here.
    I didn't expect you to say yes....
    when I saw "dinkalot replied" I expected a "you use your wrist for badminton? why?"

    but thanks for answering my complicated bio-mechanics question on such short notice

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    In my view, this difference in preparation between top players indicates that the initial position of the wrist is not so important.

    I believe what really matters is that the wrist is relaxed during the swing, so that it can transfer power from the arm muscles. If the wrist is locked or if you try to use it too actively, then you can block the kinetic chain.

    I teach a neutral wrist position for smash prepartion, because I believe this is the position which most encourages the player to keep a relaxed wrist. All the other positions are fine too, however, so long as you relax before you hit.

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    Anyone seen the way Lin Woon Fui of malaysia smash? I find it quite weird something like Zhang Jun's style too. so i guess everyone has thier own style.But my favourite is of course Lin Dan's eventhough i am not really a big fan of him.

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    There's a quality that I call "hand reactivity" which involves both the efficiency with which you can transfer fast arm speed to the bird, as well as the power that can be generated when contact time is low (such as the return of a hard smash).

    This quality involves being able to quickly transition from a relaxed state to a state of maximum tension in reaction to contacting the shuttle.

    I know some people with a terrific first part of the stroke, but lack this reactive ability on contact. The result is that the shuttle leaves the racquet without as much pop as you would expect from that initial speed. I also know some people with rather ugly looking strokes, but you can hear the better contact, and see the bird leaving the racquet at a faster speed despite the slower windup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblingfeet
    There's a quality that I call "hand reactivity" which involves both the efficiency with which you can transfer fast arm speed to the bird, as well as the power that can be generated when contact time is low (such as the return of a hard smash).

    This quality involves being able to quickly transition from a relaxed state to a state of maximum tension in reaction to contacting the shuttle.

    I know some people with a terrific first part of the stroke, but lack this reactive ability on contact. The result is that the shuttle leaves the racquet without as much pop as you would expect from that initial speed. I also know some people with rather ugly looking strokes, but you can hear the better contact, and see the bird leaving the racquet at a faster speed despite the slower windup.
    Simply put, in one case some of the power is lost to do other things, and in the other case more of the power is used to send the shuttle away. Sound is a good indicator of shuttle speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Simply put, in one case some of the power is lost to do other things, and in the other case more of the power is used to send the shuttle away. Sound is a good indicator of shuttle speed.
    sound is a good indicator on how well the shuttle was hit...for smashing a deep boom/crack sound 'assures' you hit the shuttle square on, for slices a *whiff* sound does the same...

    how loud the sound is doens't mean anything, because with my bg66 the sound is incredible, but I don't smash harder than some bloke who just uses bg65, and he really hits bombs...some peer of mine hits just as hard but it sounds very dead....because he uses this old cab with older strings, he smashes just as hard though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblingfeet
    There's a quality that I call "hand reactivity" which involves both the efficiency with which you can transfer fast arm speed to the bird, as well as the power that can be generated when contact time is low (such as the return of a hard smash).

    This quality involves being able to quickly transition from a relaxed state to a state of maximum tension in reaction to contacting the shuttle.

    I know some people with a terrific first part of the stroke, but lack this reactive ability on contact. The result is that the shuttle leaves the racquet without as much pop as you would expect from that initial speed. I also know some people with rather ugly looking strokes, but you can hear the better contact, and see the bird leaving the racquet at a faster speed despite the slower windup.
    Interesting .... sounds like the philosophy behind Bruce Lee's one-inch power punch.

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    after i went for a day of coaching i realised that its abuot coordinated movements of the body and arm to achieve maximum power with minimum strength exerted, especially when you hit hard and you sort of swing your body a bit, it helps to generate more power. most of my friends think its all in the biceps and stuff, my friend who does weight training very often cannot pull off a good smash, because he uses his biceps to exert strength in which he cocks his arm

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    Here's my 2cents When it comes to smash, the body rotation, abs, chest, shoulder, tricep and wrist is important. Some may think wrist does not play such an important role, but what I find is that, if your wrist is weak, most probably it is going to give way when you make a strong contact with the shuttle. This can also affect the steepness of your smashes.

    Another reason for having a strong wrist is to be able to play shots mostly with your wrist power and conserve your shoulder power. Not only does this help you to conserve energy for when you need to excecute powerful smashes, it also helps you be more deceptive as the movement of the wrist is more compact compared to the movement of the arms. The way this works is that you can swing your arm more relaxed as if playing a dropshot and punch the shuttle with your wrist at the last minute to perform an attacking lob.

    Finally, when in desperate situations where you need as much power as you can to lob the shuttle high and you are in a position where your body is in a position where the shoulders and body rotation is jammed to perform a powerful lob, wrist power really helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwan
    Here's my 2cents When it comes to smash, the body rotation, abs, chest, shoulder, tricep and wrist is important. Some may think wrist does not play such an important role, but what I find is that, if your wrist is weak, most probably it is going to give way when you make a strong contact with the shuttle. This can also affect the steepness of your smashes.

    Another reason for having a strong wrist is to be able to play shots mostly with your wrist power and conserve your shoulder power. Not only does this help you to conserve energy for when you need to excecute powerful smashes, it also helps you be more deceptive as the movement of the wrist is more compact compared to the movement of the arms. The way this works is that you can swing your arm more relaxed as if playing a dropshot and punch the shuttle with your wrist at the last minute to perform an attacking lob.

    Finally, when in desperate situations where you need as much power as you can to lob the shuttle high and you are in a position where your body is in a position where the shoulders and body rotation is jammed to perform a powerful lob, wrist power really helps.
    lol Iwan you elaborated my post

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerby
    sound is a good indicator on how well the shuttle was hit...for smashing a deep boom/crack sound 'assures' you hit the shuttle square on, for slices a *whiff* sound does the same...

    how loud the sound is doens't mean anything, because with my bg66 the sound is incredible, but I don't smash harder than some bloke who just uses bg65, and he really hits bombs...some peer of mine hits just as hard but it sounds very dead....because he uses this old cab with older strings, he smashes just as hard though...
    The sound difference is not the same as when you slice the shuttle, which has that brushing or zipping sound.

    Instead, what I describe is a briefer and more distinctive sound at contact, as opposed to the more muffled sound that you get with poor reactivity.

    Finally, things like the string type, string tension and racquet design do have an effect on this attribute, because they affect the reaction forces that occur between the hand and the racquet.

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    smashing gives a solid sound

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    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblingfeet
    Finally, things like the string type, string tension and racquet design do have an effect on this attribute, because they affect the reaction forces that occur between the hand and the racquet.
    ..i've gotta agree with this...esp. on the racket's characteristics (ie. stiffness of shaft etc.)..From what i read in another source, stiffness of a racket plays hand in hand with how strong the player utilizes his/her wrist:
    - Medium stiff (flexible) : partial energy transfer from wrist
    - Stiff (limited flexibility) : limited/almost full energy transfer from wrist (most pros)
    - Extra stiff (minimum flexibility) : maximum energy transfer from wrist (most pros)

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    Sound as an indicator of shuttle speed is applicable to the same racquet, string and tension. For example, if you return a smash with a bigger swing of the arm vs returning it with less swing but with a sharp wrist snap, the latter has a more compact and sharper sound and the shuttle travels faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblingfeet
    The sound difference is not the same as when you slice the shuttle, which has that brushing or zipping sound.

    Instead, what I describe is a briefer and more distinctive sound at contact, as opposed to the more muffled sound that you get with poor reactivity.

    Finally, things like the string type, string tension and racquet design do have an effect on this attribute, because they affect the reaction forces that occur between the hand and the racquet.
    brush, zipp, whiff...also depends on the type of slice..if you slice really hard, with minimal contact on the bird, there's a zip/whiff...
    though if you slice a bit less the sound become a bit more like a normal hit, with a brush...
    sound is hard to explain in letters

    Taneepak, yes indeed, that's quite logical/obvious...but that's just 'standard' technique...isn't it?

    YY_ling, are you workign on your postcount or something?

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