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  1. #18
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Smile Merry Xmas & Happy New Year 2007 to all Singaporeans !!!

    Hi Loh,

    A Merry Xmas & Happy New Year 2007 to all Singaporeans !!!

    I met Li Li, Xing & rest of team, when they were here in Melbourne@Commonwealth Games 2006.

    Congratulations for doing well @Doha 2006.

    And I wish all of you All the BEST in 2007.

    Cheers... chris@ccc

  2. #19
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    When once 'O' Level school leavers were reluctant to take up full-time badminton training, we now have a number who dared to take that risk. When once parents were unwilling to place their talented children in the Sports School, we now have more who applied for the limited places available yearly.
    Unlike my country, Singapore Goverment has done a very great job in promoting sports to the public. However, I dont see any reason why foreign players scheme can change the mindset.

    Badminton Coaches & players felt very dissapointed during last year school tournament. Their feedbacks & comments were published on newspaper. When coaches & players had given the same conclusion, do you still think that I have myopic eyes?

    Wining 5 gold medals in sailing for Singapore by our youngsters at this Doha Asian Games speaks volumes for the Sports Council
    And they did it without foreign players scheme. It proves that you do not need foreign import players to compete with others.

    Aren't you asking too much, 4-5 years to produce champions.
    Those spots should have been filled by the local Singaporeans. So, they gain quality experience to enhance in the future. How can they improve, when they are not given chance to do so?

    Personally, I would prefer to see local Singapore athletes winning gold (sailing, bowling, body building) than looking at the foreign import winning a medal.

    Who would want to give up one's citizenship for another?
    Theorically, nobody would. Practically, there are many external factors. eg. $$$, better opportunity, etc.
    Last edited by jurong_twister; 12-13-2006 at 11:17 PM.

  3. #20
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jurong_twister
    Unlike my country, Singapore Goverment has done a very great job in promoting sports to the public. However, I dont see any reason why foreign players scheme can change the mindset.

    Ah, I remember you must be Indonesian. and as Indonesia has such a huge population and so many talents to choose from for badminton, a game in which it is traditionally a world superpower, you don't face the same problems as Singapore. Unfortunately, Singapore doesn't not possess such a tradition and somehow our parents' and to a certain extent, our children's values are not quite similar although as I've said the mindset is changing, especially when the Singapore government can assure parents that their talented children's future are also looked into and cared for.

    As such, we need full-time foreign talents to show us the way, to create the necessary interest among our own talented, to win honours for Singapore at the world stage and to inspire confidence in our locals that it could be done! There may come a time when we are fully developed ourselves and the need for foreign imports will be less important.



    Badminton Coaches & players felt very dissapointed during last year school tournament. Their feedbacks & comments were published on newspaper. When coaches & players had given the same conclusion, do you still think that I have myopic eyes?

    Sorry, I'm unaware of this and don't know the details to comment on this matter. Perhaps you could supply them for some meaningful discussion? When I talked about myopia, I refer to the big picture, not individual interest.

    And they did it without foreign players scheme. It proves that you do not need foreign import players to compete with others.

    Sure and I'm just overjoyed with our young sailors' brilliant performance at Doha. Those at the helm of Singapore Sailing must have done a splendid job over the years and I read that they will continue to upgrade with an eye to winning Olympic medals. I think it was Dr Ben Tan who won Singapore's first AG sailing gold and has thus set a very high standard and good model for those after him to emulate. As I recalled, Ben went into sailing full time despite being qualified to practise medicine, and he also had spent enormous time to train overseas in all sorts of weather conditions. He had the passion, dedication and commitment to achieve success and worked hard at it. In the recent past, I can't think of any local born Singaporean badminton player who was of that mould.

    Now, I think one big difference between Sailing and Badminton is tradition and the laying out of a master plan and a set of realistic goals for successful implementation. Ben Tan had assured the sailing fraternity that it could be done and he generated a great deal of confidence. But our young sailors still need foreign coaches to help them do better. Now Singapore is reaping a record harvest of 5 Asian Games gold medals in Doha.



    Those spots should have been filled by the local Singaporeans. So, they gain quality experience to enhance in the future. How can they improve, when they are not given chance to do so?

    Like you, I look forward to the day when our local born Singaporeans are good enough to fill the shoes of our foreign talents. Unfortunately, they have been tested before and are found not up to the very competitive standards of our neighbours and the world at large. So foreign imports are necessary to set the minimum standards and offer locals a chance to test their skills against them. It is still a long way, but at least a start has been made to inculcate this sense of dedication, professionalism and hard work on our local trainees. There are no shortcuts and the locals have to decide whether they are up to it. They will then know what it takes to reach the top. As I have posted, our women players have done relatively well at this AG and this was in no small part due to their efforts (mainly foreign talent who became Singapore citizens) but also those of the SBA and SSC.


    Personally, I would prefer to see local Singapore athletes winning gold (sailing, bowling, body building) than looking at the foreign import winning a medal.


    Of course you are entitled to your own opinion but thankfully our government and Sports Chiefs are more open as they quite logically see limitations to such a policy. I hope I don't have to repeat again that Singapore has to count on foreign talents to excel in all its fields of endeavour because it has a limited talent pool with such a small population. Despite all the education and training we give to our people, it is still not enough for us to achieve the highest standards and higher goals.

    Singapore's economic development history is a story based on foreign talent making its various contributions to the development of modern Singapore. Quite different from many newly-independent countries in the past who relied on nationalism or on its own people to make economic and social progress in all fronts, Singapore continued to welcome foreign companies, or the multi-national corporations to invest, expand and upgrade its operations in the city state that propelled Singapore as the first Southeast Asian country into the first-world ranks. We've had had a successful and enriching experience with foreign talent and it is unlikely that we would want to depart from this win-win relationship.



    Theorically, nobody would. Practically, there are many external factors. eg. $$$, better opportunity, etc.
    Exactly! Who would want to be uprooted from friends and families to migrate to a foreign place for long periods of time unless for very good reasons. Maybe, you also have good reasons for wanting to live in Singapore for some time now.

    That's why Ronald Susilo, Li Li, Jiang Yanmei, Li Yujia, Sari, Xing Aiying and others made the important decision to become Singapore Citizens.
    Last edited by Loh; 12-14-2006 at 02:08 AM.

  4. #21
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc
    Hi Loh,

    A Merry Xmas & Happy New Year 2007 to all Singaporeans !!!

    I met Li Li, Xing & rest of team, when they were here in Melbourne@Commonwealth Games 2006.

    Congratulations for doing well @Doha 2006.

    And I wish all of you All the BEST in 2007.

    Cheers... chris@ccc
    Thank you Chris for remembering us during this festive time of the year.

    A MERRY CHRISTMAS & A HAPPY 2007 TO ALL OUR FRIENDS DOWNUNDER, ESPECIALLY TO ALL OUR MELBOURNE BADDY FANS IN CHRIS@CCC"


  5. #22
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    http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfr...,83071,00.html

    There are always pros and cons, but majority are against it based on poll which was done during the period.

  6. #23
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jurong_twister
    http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfr...,83071,00.html

    There are always pros and cons, but majority are against it based on poll which was done during the period.
    Thanks for that piece of information about the competition in the schools.

    I think it is only a natural response by teachers and coaches of normal schools who do not have 'quality' players to take on the better ones from overseas who decided to study here. I assume many of the better players have been absorbed by the Sports School which should be the one more concerned if their trainees cannot measure up to the foreign imports. But there are always some good local players who chose not to attend the SS for various reasons. And for Montford Secondary and perhaps a few others to think of such a scheme to get good foreign players to heighten the competition and make it more interesting, they should be congratulated. Otherwise our school badminton scene will remain dull and of a low standard.

    About the poll, I'm not sure whether we can confirm that the majority are against 'imported players' as nothing official has been conducted. In any case some of those interviewed chose not to have their names disclosed. Even then, over time those involved will have to accept the challenge and think of ways to do better. In a way, it is a wake-up call to those who have not performed. Fortunately, the 'anti-foreign import' view you mentioned is not shared by our government who encourages foreign talent to provide the competition and raise our own standards.

    The motivated local school players found the foreign challenge invigorating as they can assess their own standards, exchange knowledge and train harder to improve themselves. Some have confessed that they have benefitted as a result.

    At the national level, we can't hold the selfish view of just keeping to ourselves and hope to do the best in international tournaments. We will be slaughtered. The foreign talent scheme is meant to help us achieve international standards faster in some of our sports, badminton being one of them.

    So I believe we are on the right track and those involved in our core sports should not waste time being negative but should work towards a common goal of achieving success for Singapore in the world sports arena.
    Last edited by Loh; 12-14-2006 at 07:57 PM.

  7. #24
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    This is just another example of Singaporean opinion:

    http://info.channelnewsasia.com/bb/v...7ac04f21212f55

    You may search and find more at google.

    Monfort has always been having a good history in Badminton. So, it is not a normal school.

    Coaches & players who made complain are not coming from normal school as well. At least they are in top 8 of national competition.

    Poll is an inquiry into public opinion conducted by interviewing a random sample of people. The result may represent the whole population. That's the purpose of polling.

    At the national level, we can't hold the selfish view of just keeping to ourselves and hope to do the best in international tournaments. We will be slaughtered.
    Not really. Remy Ong (bowling) does well in international events.

    So I believe we are on the right track and those involved in our core sports should not waste time being negative but should work towards a common goal of achieving success for Singapore in the world sports arena.
    So far, I still cannot see any impressive local born in badminton after the introduction of foreign talent. Only time will tell, but we should wait for another 10-15 years with every 5 years milestones. Based on the first 5 years, foreign talent is still a failure.

    While local media keep calling other countries foreign talent as for example: Bahrain Kenyan imported sprinters, there should be nothing wrong with others calling Singaporean Chinese/Indonesian imported shuttlers.
    Last edited by jurong_twister; 12-15-2006 at 11:05 PM.

  8. #25
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    man Loh are you member of national squad or what, you got lots of info

  9. #26
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    Singapore wins Optimist Sailing Team Racing World Championship in Uruguay beating 3 times gold medallists.

    This is just another example why Singapore doesnt need foreign import to achieve great result in International Events.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    As one who has been following Singapore Badminton closely, I am delighted with our Women's Team performance at the current Doha Asian Games 2006.

    Drawn against seemingly stronger opponents in the team event, Singapore had a close call but managed to pip Hong Kong to enter the Women's Team Semi-final on count-back as follows:

    Singapore beat Thailand 4-1
    (Thus avenging our defeat in the Manila SEA Games)

    1. Li Li b Sortja 21-19, 21-12
    2. Xing Aiying b Monthila 21-13, 21-19
    3. Jiang Yanmei b Salakjit 21-8, 14-21, 21-18 (a surprise and decisive win!)
    4. Li Yujia/Sari Shinta Mulia b Kunchal/Duanganong 21-19, 12-21, 21-17 (another surprise win, as Li was not paired with regular partner Jiang)
    5. Jiang Yanmei/Vanessa Neo lost to Saralee/Satinee 6-21, 7-21

    Singapore lost to Hong Kong 2-3

    1. Li Li lost to Wang Chen #3, 12-21, 19-21
    2. Xing Aiying lost to Yip Pui Yin #7, 11-21, 11-21 (even Zhang Ning #1 lost to Yip 19-21, 19-21 during the individual QF)
    3. Jiang Yanmei b Assunta Ng 21-14, 21-11
    4. Li Yujia/Sari b Yip Pui Yin/Chau Hoi Wah 21-18, 21-14
    5. Jiang/Frances Liu lost to Wang Chen/Louisa Koon 11-21, 18-21

    Hong Kong lost to Thailand 2-3.

    Many thanks to Thailand, in the end, based on the number of matches won and lost, Singapore emerged on top to enter the semi-final:

    1. Singapore (Won 6, Lost 4)
    2. Hong Kong (5 & 5)
    3. Thailand (4 & 6)

    With this result, Singapore secured the team Bronze Medal, its first in badminton in the Asian Games.

    Unfortunately, in the SF, Japan proved too strong for us, although it had a hard battle with South Korea before winning 3-2 for a place in the SF.

    Results of Singapore's SF match with Japan (0-3):

    1. Li Li lost to Mori Kaori 19-21, 11-21
    2. Jiang Yanmei/Li Yujia lost to Ogura Kumiko/Shiota Reiko 21-23, 14-21
    3. Xing Aiying lost to Hirose Eriko 14-21, 21-12, 18-21

    Suffice to say that Jiang Yanmei, our doubles specialist, won valuable points for Singapore playing at third singles although she lost her doubles matches with different partners, a strategy to split the regular partnership which worked well for Singapore.

    New Discovery

    But, Singapore has now rediscovered a 'new' gem in Xing Aiying, who performed better and better as the team events, followed by the individual competition progressed. Singaporeans who saw her live in action on TV yesterday must be proud of the way she almost defeated Korean, Hwang Hye Yeon in the QF. A brief description of this momentus match will come later.

    Aiying gave higher ranked Hirose Eriko #5 a fright in the team event and almost won the decider and match as shown above. (On the other hand Saina Nehwal of India lost to Eriko 23-25, 7-21 during the individual competition. Xing had beaten Saina in the Melbourne Commonwealth Games. But Eriko eventually lost to Xie Xingfang #2, 7-21, 24-22, 16-21, but certainly not disgraced.

    Xing Aiying's results during her individual campaign:

    R1: beat Shrestha Sumin (NEP) 21-1, 21-6 (14m).
    R2. beat Mori Kaori (JPN) 21-15, 21-12 (30m) (Li Li lost to Mori in the Team event)
    QF: lost to Hwang Hye Yeon (KOR) 21-14, 15-21, 18-21 (65m)

    In the decisive final game against Hwang, the line judge made a grave error by calling Xing's baseline shot "out". The TV replay clearly showed it to be on the line. At that time the score was close (15-17, I think) but because of this error Hwang went on to score 18 points, when Xing should get 16 and Hwang remained at 17 - a net difference of 2 points! Certainly a costly error by the line judge which must have deprived Xing of a possible win.)

    So Xing lost a good chance of appearing in the SF and a possible AG medal!

    Li Li did not do too badly either. In the individual singles R1, she beat Cheng Shao Chieh (TPE) 21-11, 18-21, 21-15 (52m) but succumbed again to Team event opponent, Wang Chen (HKG), 13-21, 20-22 (34m), a slight improvement over her earlier loss at 12-21, 19-21 (30m).

    Watch out for Xing Aiying, who now has a new coach to guide her.
    You can blah all you want about she but sorry xing Aiying is not as hot as you have suggested. What about your local boy Kendrick? Well kendrick lee is just being kendrick lee And that remains a constant

  11. #28
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jurong_twister
    Singapore wins Optimist Sailing Team Racing World Championship in Uruguay beating 3 times gold medallists.

    This is just another example why Singapore doesnt need foreign import to achieve great result in International Events.
    Every time I learned that Singaporean athletes could beat the best in the world in their chosen sports and events, I felt immensely proud and happy that despite our small population, we still have it to become world champions! But I don't agree that Singapore doesn't need to import foreign talent. It depends on the situation and prevailing circumstances.

    We have had world champions in sailing (as you've just indicated, this is a new achievement I believe), bowling, bodybuilding and silat, but not on a consisent basis and in a number of cases, we have to count on the 'veterans' in the latter three, which are not Olympic sports, to deliver. Quite logically, Singapore will concentrate on the Olympic sports in which it feels our athletes will have a chance to shine.

    As I have mentioned before, Sailing's success is not an overnight miracle. Plans have been established long ago to create the necessary interest in our schools, to spot the local talents and to train them to the highest level with top-notch coaches and exposed them to overseas competitions. Much resources, talent and time have already been poured into this sport to ensure its continued success.

    We need not import foreign talent in sailing because we have enough of the necessary local material to work with, thanks to Sailing's foresight. Quite naturally, success begets success, and sailing will attact more new enthusiasts with its new-found successes at the Doha Asian Games and world competitons.

    Unforturnately, badminton and some other chosen Olympic sports,
    do not have the local talent pool just yet, but badminton together with table tennis have plotted out the road map for implementation, so it will be a mattter of time when these two Olympic sports will make their impact. The Sports School will produce our major source of talent to represent Singapore in the future and I hope we have the best coaches to train and guide them.

    It is likely that Singapore will get its second Olympic medal from sailing, with only one silver medal won by Tan Howe Liang for weightlifting ages ago in Rome! Although Ang Peng Siong (whom the Singapore Swimming Association and Sports Council must have spent immensely on his overseas education and training) created a world record for the short course free style sprint in swimming, we have not won a medal at the Olympics. Our latest sensational foreign talent, Tao Li, now 16, who came to Singapore at 10 years of age and initially coached by Ang himself, will likely be the lady to win the first swimming honours for Singapore.

    I think Singapore's approach is well-suited to its size and available resources. I have elaborated quite at large on this and thus will not repeat myself. Therefore to solely rely on local talent at this stage of our sports development is not the way to go for Singapore.

    However, one thing that I observed lacking for Badminton is that we have only one high performance local coach to work with the foreigh coaches. If we want to have a full compliment of badminton armoury, we need to attract more locals to become full-fledged national coaches that our successful neighbours, Indonesia and Malaysia, have already cultivated.

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    Frankly speaking, Singapore has all the resources (players, coaches, dollars, facilities, etc).

    This has been proven in Sailing.

    It's just a matter of time whether they want to build it from scratch or getting foreign talent as a short cut to get a medal.

    Did you take a notice during Li Tao's gold medal ceremony? Did she really sing Majulah Singapura? Based on my observation, it's a strange lips movement.

    Is Jin Jun Hong still staying in Singapore after her retirement? I heard that she spent most of her time back in China.

    Is this the kinda citizenship that Singaporeans are looking for? You may search on many local forum and surely this is not what they want.

    I think Singapore's approach is well-suited to its size and available resources. I have elaborated quite at large on this and thus will not repeat myself. Therefore to solely rely on local talent at this stage of our sports development is not the way to go for Singapore.
    This is what exactly happened in Badminton/Table Tennis. I hardly see any local talent represent Singapore during world competition even after the introduction of foreign talent scheme more than 1/2 decade ago.

  13. #30
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jurong_twister
    Frankly speaking, Singapore has all the resources (players, coaches, dollars, facilities, etc).

    This has been proven in Sailing.

    It's just a matter of time whether they want to build it from scratch or getting foreign talent as a short cut to get a medal.

    Did you take a notice during Li Tao's gold medal ceremony? Did she really sing Majulah Singapura? Based on my observation, it's a strange lips movement.

    Is Jin Jun Hong still staying in Singapore after her retirement? I heard that she spent most of her time back in China.

    Is this the kinda citizenship that Singaporeans are looking for? You may search on many local forum and surely this is not what they want.


    This is what exactly happened in Badminton/Table Tennis. I hardly see any local talent represent Singapore during world competition even after the introduction of foreign talent scheme more than 1/2 decade ago.
    I wish I could agree with you that Singapore has all the resources. Although I agree that sailing is a rare exception, still we have to look towards the more experienced foreign coaches to help us achieve success. As I've said, in badminton we practically have no proven local coaches to help build the national team. Additionally, although the mindset is changing, we still need to work hard on the parents and their sports talented children to turn professional.

    Yes time is of the essence and for certain sports which we lagged far behind international standards, we need foreign talent to help us narrow the gulf and create more interest among our own populace. I'm sure most of us don't desire to wait another 10 to 20 years to have a national team worthy of international standards.

    Tao Li is still young and came from a different background. Personally, I think she has adjusted well and is much admired by her friends in the Sports School. She came here to learn English and now has to learn to sing the National Anthem in Malay. Evidently from the TY footages we saw, she struggled with the language but was making valiant attempts. Even among local-born Singaporeans, we still have many who can't sing the NA. Thankfully, time is on Tao Li's side and I've no doubt that she will succeed in the end.

    I can't comment on our present or past foreign talent athletes who have become citizens. Some are still contributing, others have made good after retirement but some have not. Some became model citizens, others may not. This is a fact of life for all citizens, whether local or foreign born. Even some Singapore citizens emigrate elsewhere for whatever reasons. So it is not quite right for us to pass judgment. So long as they have done their part and delivered when they are most wanted, they have fulfilled their obligations and we can only hope that they will be able to continue to live happily in Singapore.

    At least they are better than so-called citizens who caused death and destruction to their own people in their own countries.

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    I'm sure most of us don't desire to wait another 10 to 20 years to have a national team worthy of international standards.
    more than 1/2 decade has passed. if what you said is true, in another 2-3 years, we shall see the first batch of local born players participating more often in international events.

    So long as they have done their part and delivered when they are most wanted, they have fulfilled their obligations and we can only hope that they will be able to continue to live happily in Singapore.
    do their part, deliver and that's the end of it = mercenary

    At least they are better than so-called citizens who caused death and destruction to their own people in their own countries.
    those are rebels/terrorist. A true citizen will be faithful and bear true allegiance to the country.

    oh well, let's see whether those imports can bring local players to another level. 2-3 more years is not a very long time to wait.

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    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Default National local talent pool is of the greatest importance

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh

    ...... I don't agree that Singapore doesn't need to import foreign talent. It depends on the situation and prevailing circumstances......

    As I have mentioned before, Sailing's success is not an overnight miracle. Plans have been established long ago to create the necessary interest in our schools, to spot the local talents and to train them to the highest level with top-notch coaches and exposed them to overseas competitions. Much resources, talent and time have already been poured into this sport to ensure its continued success.

    We need not import foreign talent in sailing because we have enough of the necessary local material to work with, thanks to Sailing's foresight......

    Unforturnately, badminton and some other chosen Olympic sports, do not have the local talent pool just yet, but badminton together with table tennis have plotted out the road map for implementation, so it will be a mattter of time when these two Olympic sports will make their impact. The Sports School will produce our major source of talent to represent Singapore in the future and I hope we have the best coaches to train and guide them......
    Hi Loh,

    Completely in agreement with you.

    Tell you what's happening in Australia.

    Some 50 years ago, Australia produced the most number of Tennis Champions in the World.

    Now, it's almost "NIL".

    Why???

    Well, the answer...... Australia does not have a local talent pool anymore.

    The reason...... Real Estate prices went up.

    50 years ago, Australia had the most number of tennis courts per capita as compared with any other countries in the world. There were so many Australians playing tennis then.

    But as the Real Estate prices went up, more and more tennis courts disappeared. So the Australian talent pool just diminished over the years.

    However, at the the moment, Australia is still well known in the world for great coaches. But unfortunately, in another 50 years' time, as our previous talent pool of players turning coaches diminishes, our great Australian coaches will disappear too. SAD

    Cheers... chris@ccc

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    Topic : Foreign Import Players

    It's a classic case of Doing the 'Good' Thing vs Doing the 'Right' Thing.

    Singapore IMHO is doing the 'Right' thing, and is definetely in the right path. Because they are doing what is needed to develop their sport further by taking such necesarry measures much elaborated by Loh.

    Loh : I agree


    Singapore is not doing the 'Good' thing. This is because, to do 'good', and to look 'good' / 'correct' (or any other terms that reflects 'politically straight policy') by not taking in foreign players.... Singapore would suffer greatly in the sports area which i am sure Singapore Govt ragards as an important component in maintaining Social / Moral / economic BALANCES.

    Surely this is reflected in there yearly budget allocation for sport development. I don't have any figures but i can imagine

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    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    Spore definately have all the resources. But the Talents is just not enought at the moment. But considering its small population, i would say Spore done its job farely well towards sports development.

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