Who is the Biggest Loser in Asian Games?

**ye333** · 12-11-2006, 01:49 PM

Well, you have to grade these teams based on their strength. Because we are grading the performance here. Otherwise it's not fair.

Mas is more than happy to get one MD gold. But will LYB be happy if all he had is a WD gold?

btw, I don't think the percentage I used is "over-hyped". For example, I say MS is 40%, because really there are only 5 contenders of the gold and Chn has 2.

Originally Posted by LazyBuddy

I think your grading system is way too harsh. 2 out of 5 (with only 2 participants in each event to begin with) is not an easy task. Everyone can have a good or bad day. Even for the ones (besides MD) CHN did not get a gold, they managed silver and bronze.

I grade them with this way as number of medals (I know gold counts a lot, but you can't consider silver or bronze as nothing, right?)

MS: Silver
MD: 0
WS: Bronze
WD: Gold + Silver
XD: Gold + Silver

So, They got 6 out 10 possible (as they have only 2 * 5 = 10 entries). Never to metion, you can say that's 7, as who cares whether ZN or XXF get the Bronze in WS. How many other nations even come to closer than that???

**LazyBuddy** · 12-11-2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by ye333

Well, you have to grade these teams based on their strength. Because we are grading the performance here. Otherwise it's not fair.

Mas is more than happy to get one MD gold. But will LYB be happy if all he had is a WD gold?

I understand you point of view.

However, LYB got more than just 1 WD gold, right? Let's lay out the 7 possible gold:

Men Team: Ok, CHN is the leader horse, and they get it. Check

Women Team: No point even to discuss. Check

MS: Even if CHN got 2 candidates out of the possible 5, but this is still very open to almost every one, as MS is very un-predictable. If a 19yrs HK girl can upset ZN, I don't see why can't any MS elite to upset any top 5. Uncheck.

WS: The most disappointment for CHN. Uncheck

MD: Ok, this is known as the most un-predictable event for any tourny, and well known as CHN's weakest link. If they lost, I am not surprised. Uncheck.

WD: You might have 1 super girl to beat the CHN lady in WS, but almost impossible to get 2 together to upset the their 2 pairs (not even necessarily to be the top 2). Check

XD: Most surprising gain for CHN, gold and silver, very well done.

Overall, CHN did get all the gold it suppose to capture (besides WS), and gain a bit more surprise bonus in XD. Therefore, I will give them a score of A- or B+. Your grade of "at most C" is just way tooooo harsh.

**ye333** · 12-11-2006, 02:18 PM

You are saying: these are the golds that Chn should almost 100% get, and they did, that's good performance! I cannot disagree more.

Also, if that's satisfactory and can get A-, what kind of score MAS should get? What kind of score HK should get? A++++++ ? I run out of "+"s...

So my logic is, if we can give MAS A+, China has to be around C.

Of course there is possibility that top 5 be toppled, in fact similar thing happened in 04 Olympics, where all 3 Chinese MS are beaten by inferior players. But isn't that event considered a major defeat of Chinese MS? In fact, the possibility that a player other than the 5 I listed grab the title is really negligible, definitely <1%.

Originally Posted by LazyBuddy

I understand you point of view.

However, LYB got more than just 1 WD gold, right? Let's lay out the 7 possible gold:

Men Team: Ok, CHN is the leader horse, and they get it. Check

Women Team: No point even to discuss. Check

MS: Even if CHN got 2 candidates out of the possible 5, but this is still very open to almost every one, as MS is very un-predictable. If a 19yrs HK girl can upset ZN, I don't see why can't any MS elite to upset any top 5. Uncheck.

WS: The most disappointment for CHN. Uncheck

MD: Ok, this is known as the most un-predictable event for any tourny, and well known as CHN's weakest link. If they lost, I am not surprised. Uncheck.

WD: You might have 1 super girl to beat the CHN lady in WS, but almost impossible to get 2 together to upset the their 2 pairs (not even necessarily to be the top 2). Check

XD: Most surprising gain for CHN, gold and silver, very well done.

Overall, CHN did get all the gold it suppose to capture (besides WS), and gain a bit more surprise bonus in XD. Therefore, I will give them a score of A- or B+. Your grade of "at most C" is just way tooooo harsh.

**LazyBuddy** · 12-11-2006, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by ye333

You are saying: these are the golds that Chn should almost 100% get, and they did, that's good performance! I cannot disagree more.

Also, if that's satisfactory and can get A-, what kind of score MAS should get? What kind of score HK should get? A++++++ ? I run out of "+"s...

So my logic is, if we can give MAS A+, China has to be around C.

Lol... I do see your point.

Well, I guess the way we graded this result are from different basis. I do agree that MAS and especiall HK did some great surprise, but I don't see why we need to grade CHN based on surprises.

Put this way, in NBA, we have MVP, but we also have "Most Improved" award. You can't say, ok, I give player XXX most improved, and the MVP YYY's scoring average is even 1 point below his average of last year, so, he's not MVP.

To me, HK and MAS definitely are A grade, for their "surprising" accomplishment (e.g. improvement). However, we need to grade CHN on a different scale (more like, being consistant and meet the most of the expectations), as they should NOT be purnished due to their dominating glory.

**hydrocyanic** · 12-12-2006, 03:00 PM

compare to CHN's previous AGs and records

its an improvement for sure

**wl2172** · 12-12-2006, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by bzhang1108

the best result China got in previous Asian games is 3 golds. This time they got 4 golds. So LYB is definitely OK. Do not "worry" for him. I actually do not understand why so many people here always target at LYB. I know, I know, he has his shortcommings, but everyone has their owns. He is a person, not a saint. Under his leadership, Chinese badminton team has become the strongest one in the world now. Do you know how much hard work he has done for this? Come on, guys. show him some respect he absolutely deserve!

We wil show him some respect when he shows us some. He is so cocky he will not even answer a question if asked in English (I know this cos I was in the interview room in the All England). The English media have to later get scraps from the journalists who can understand Mandarin. This cannot be good for the sport as a whole. It is as if he is holding court as emperor.
I also did not like it when he kept shouting "break his leg", "break his leg" in Mandarin to spur Bao CL against Lee CW in one of the recent tournaments. Come on, Lee CW can understand Mandarin. Do you see any coach in the history of badminton behaving like that?
TBH, I will not be unhappy to see the back of this man. China, with its depth and breadth in badminton, do not need this man to tarnish the sport and image. It is embarassing to see this man behaving like this.

**pjswift** · 12-13-2006, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by bananaboy

Exactly... the guy has accomplished so much more than any other head coaches in other countries even China. Like I always say, if LYB were to decide to leave China and coach somewhere else... there will be a list of countries begging him to go over...

Exactly. This chap is particularly accomplished in match fixing and player harassment. No other coaches come near;in fact LYB has no competition here , he is unique. He may be great for CHN but for how long? If AG outcome is indicative, CHN may only be able to sustain WD power. LYB deserves no respect because his behaviour , esp. in employing non- badminton tactics, is detrimental to the sport and makes CHN a symbol of cowardice. That's a great shame cos CHN actually is a great country.
The funny thing is, during the AG, LYB complained about harassment by Indonesian fans! The guy actually knows the meaning of harassment.I suppose he doesn't think he has ever harassed LCW!If a coach cannot control himself, how can you control a crowd? Clearly this guy is the opposite of Confucius. Unlike the sage, LYB's motto is: Do not do unto me what I can do unto you.
Outside CHN, LYB would be jobless. The smell alone will repel.

**nwy5633** · 12-13-2006, 06:56 AM

ermm..
for me...
there are no biggest loser imo...
LCW > having a great match + bronze medal...
LD > still in the final + silver medal...
LHI > also reach his target + bronze medal...
Taufik > no need to say la...
TBH/KKK > same as taufik...
LYD/JJS > did some great job...
kido/setiawan > can be proud of getting bronze...
alvent/luluk > much more than they think of...
CY/FHF > they should know their result since their performance after WC...
Tazari/LWF > a little dissapointed but still ok...

BUT if there is a biggest loser there...
our ZN in WS should be it...
anyway she should know tat her result would be tat...
as she been forced to a rubber set from WMC...
losing to lower rank player...
she should be the 1...

**LazyBuddy** · 12-13-2006, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by wl2172

We wil show him some respect when he shows us some. He is so cocky he will not even answer a question if asked in English (I know this cos I was in the interview room in the All England). The English media have to later get scraps from the journalists who can understand Mandarin. This cannot be good for the sport as a whole. It is as if he is holding court as emperor.

I don't understand why if LYB does not want to talk in English is a problem. Clearly, English is not his 1st language, and even if he can speak some, he might not be comfortable with it. Surely, with years of experience and travel, I am sure he can speak some, but i doubt he can make a perfect speech and answer all the questions in some language that he's not using in a very frequent basis. It's very different to use a language in professional way, than say, just attend some college classes and get a final paper done.

Being a jounalist, it's your responsibility to try to communicate with the person being interviewed. If you find it's difficult to communicate, send someone who can speak his language or get a translator or don't complain to get left overs.

It's the media try to dig something out of LYB, it's not LYB beg the media to come and make a speech.

And again, I think LYB is being overly attacked almost in every single thread. Don't get me wrong, I am more of a Li Mao's supporter than LYB dated way back then. Li Mao is known as "refuse to learn the other language" even when he was hired by KOR and now MAS. He only speaks mandarin. No one complains Li Mao about "not being professional" or what so ever. And myself definitely don't have a problem with it as well.

To me, if you require the other person to do you a favor (e.g. interview, coaching, etc), you need to go with whatever the other person's choice, but not yours.