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  1. #18
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    Well I think, although quisitor's analysis is soemwhat biased, he does have some points.

    Yes there are players who are not smooth (or does not have good footwork tempo, using quisitor's theory) on court, yes some of them achieved really high, but that doesn't mean what they did are all correct and all these "smooth moving" theory is ********.

    For example, suppose you are superhumanly strong (simply put, suppose you are Mr. Hulk or The Thing), can benchpress 2000lbs, squat 4000lbs and are still reasonably agile or something, maybe you can beat some top martial arts guy. But that doesn't mean all the martial arts techniques and theory are bullshits.

    In fact, the inability of moving around smoothly really hampered XXZ from getting more victories, and must be one of the main reasons why Hendrawan loved to play against him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simp84
    hehe someone finally voiced out.. thanks ssuly
    However Quisitor is somewhat correct, but his argument is only minor part of the game
    By the way pro doesn't even bother about their tempo, they take what they have acquired throughout their training career and convert it to victory.. As mentioned by a few pros in this forum, the mind is the most important aspect in advance singles game, and I totally agree with them..
    A great example is XXZ, he is the "least smooth" player on court yet he manage to beat many smooth talented players, namely Taufik in AE1999, Furthermore he went against all odd to win WC03.. So hardwork, desperation and concentration do pay off and it can overcome talent

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jurong_twister
    Two of my friends + saugusli and I can confirm that he really is a heavy smoker. We went for dinner. During the 2 hours period, he can puff around a quarter pack.
    taufik is a smoker but not a heavy smoker, he only smokes after having a meal or just for 'relaxing' or when he hangs out with his friend, he's not a smoker who 'smokes' 1 or 2 packs of cigarrets a day , if taufik is really a heavy smoker, he surely can't play for 1 set , i'm a heavy smoker i can't run for 500 m or 1 km, i will be collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by jurong_twister
    Why should Lindan be ashamed of himself? That's his stupidity. Lack of dicipline (basically for most Indonesian athletes).
    lin dan shouldn't be ashamed, he was beaten by the master

    Quote Originally Posted by jurong_twister
    What a shame is a country with 200+ millions population and only manage to win 2 gold medals in Asian Games. I would resign from my post, If I were the Indonesian team manager.
    hey..
    you are very wrong, the number of population has nothing to do with that

    we're just 'weak' in sport development, at least we don't import the athletes, like QATAR or...hmmmm
    Last edited by taufik-ist; 12-13-2006 at 09:33 PM.

  3. #20
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    The serve is obviously a tiny part of professional game. He might be able to give a thorough explanation on it, but it's still a tiny part of professional game. Quisitor's claim that LD's backhand is so weak so that he can't even do a comfortable net flick is just ridiculous. He mentioned weakness, so that means it should be the lack of power instead of the technique. If LD has the power to do a backhand clear or deceptive backhand flick serve, then LD should be able to do a flick or lift from the net since the power required is less than the first two mentioned strokes.

    About the footwork tempo is even more ridiculous. The fact that there are no coaches give similar concern about this skill is just because this is a skill that the players naturally learn by themselves.
    If players get later than the shuttle, they will have a difficulty to make a return. If they get earlier than the shuttle, they will to wait for the shuttle and moreover, waste their energy. The players realize those two disadvantages naturally so that they naturally attempt to get to the hitting position at the same time as the shuttle.

    I believe that the smooth movement on court has nothing to do with footwork tempo. I think smooth movement on court does related to lower body coordination. It's how players coordinate their lower body efficiently and effectively (without making useless movement at all) to get to the hitting position.

    I hope you reply to my post Quisitor... pls grow up and don't be afraid of facing reality... don't just shut yourself up and blindly believe that other posts against yours are ridiculous.
    Last edited by ssuly; 12-14-2006 at 08:47 PM.

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssuly
    The serve is obviously a tiny part of professional game. He might be able to give a thorough explanation on it, but it's still a tiny part of professional game. Quisitor's claim that LD's backhand is so weak so that he can't even do a comfortable net flick is just ridiculous. He mentioned weakness, so that means it should be the lack of power instead of the technique. If LD has the power to do a backhand clear or deceptive backhand flick serve, then LD should be able to do a flick or lift from the net since the power required is less than the first two mentioned strokes.

    About the footwork tempo is even more ridiculous. The fact that there are no coaches give similar concern about this skill is just because this is a skill that the players naturally learn by themselves.
    If players get later than the shuttle, they will have a difficulty to make a return. If they get earlier than the shuttle, they will to wait for the shuttle and moreover, waste their energy. The players realize those two disadvantages naturally so that they naturally attempt to get to the hitting position at the same time as the shuttle.

    I believe that the smooth movement on court has nothing to do with footwork tempo. I think smooth movement on court does related to lower body coordination. It's how players coordinate their lower body efficiently and effectively (without making useless movement at all) to get to the hitting position.

    I hope you reply to my post Quisitor... pls grow up and don't be afraid of facing reality... don't just shut yourself up and blindly believe that other posts against yours are ridiculous.
    yep this is well explained! And I agree
    I heard the same thing from the ZJH in one of his commentary match, he mentioned that everybody is different, theres no way a coach can make a player to mimic another player.. it doesn't matter how the shots are executed with different style or technique, what matter the most is whether a player is able to produce an accurate shots with efficiency in his own ways..
    With regarding to being smooth on court I believe it is either you are born with it or you don't.. guess this is where talent sets in

  5. #22
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    I would like to say that i don't think the serve is a tiny part of the game since it is one of the most executed hits in the game.
    Also i would say that the analyses of quisitor has helped me to see the game again with different eyes: it's quite stunning taufik always serve to lin dan's backhand.
    I think also it's a general tactic of taufik to serve (short) against left-handers (i saw against bao chunlai also) from his own (taufiks) RIGHT service-box wide to the left-handers backhand. Sometimes they respond with a quick lift on taufiks backhand and he can reply this very well unlike other players with his strong backhand (cross-court, lonline smash, etc.).
    Also i think the point of ssuly that the concentration this pros develop over the years is very important. I'd like to know why lin dan didn't flick serve his bachand to taufik to move him a bit more like in an earlier game..?

    Taufik is a great tactician in this game, which means he really chooses very carefully where to play the shuttle concerning the opponents weaknesses. I think that's one way to compensate his physical ability in terms of explosiveness and muscularity (does this word exist?) which seems not to be so good like lee hyun il's or lin dan's as it was already mentioned a lot here.

    Besides, i don't think it's good to mix up arguments about technique etc. with personal issues.

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simp84
    yep this is well explained! And I agree
    I heard the same thing from the ZJH in one of his commentary match, he mentioned that everybody is different, theres no way a coach can make a player to mimic another player.. it doesn't matter how the shots are executed with different style or technique, what matter the most is whether a player is able to produce an accurate shots with efficiency in his own ways..
    With regarding to being smooth on court I believe it is either you are born with it or you don't.. guess this is where talent sets in
    But i think it's interesting to point out the different strengthes and weaknesses resulting from the different styles like quisitor did. Although i don't think xxz movements looked so unsmoothely although he took giant steps often (referring to sim84 on page 1).
    Last edited by TrueBlue; 12-15-2006 at 07:17 AM.

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueBlue
    I would like to say that i don't think the serve is a tiny part of the game since it is one of the most executed hits in the game.
    Also i would say that the analyses of quisitor has helped me to see the game again with different eyes: it's quite stunning taufik always serve to lin dan's backhand.
    I think also it's a general tactic of taufik to serve (short) against left-handers (i saw against bao chunlai also) from his own (taufiks) RIGHT service-box wide to the left-handers backhand. Sometimes they respond with a quick lift on taufiks backhand and he can reply this very well unlike other players with his strong backhand (cross-court, lonline smash, etc.).
    Also i think the point of ssuly that the concentration this pros develop over the years is very important. I'd like to know why lin dan didn't flick serve his bachand to taufik to move him a bit more like in an earlier game..?

    Taufik is a great tactician in this game, which means he really chooses very carefully where to play the shuttle concerning the opponents weaknesses. I think that's one way to compensate his physical ability in terms of explosiveness and muscularity (does this word exist?) which seems not to be so good like lee hyun il's or lin dan's as it was already mentioned a lot here.

    Besides, i don't think it's good to mix up arguments about technique etc. with personal issues.
    Sorry let me clarify, when I say it is tiny part of the game, I don't mean it is completely unimportant and should be ignored.. I believe a good service is an important winning key factor in men's singles, and I certainly notice this in my game, if I can serve well (where the shuttle is accurate, just crawl over the net) regardless doubles or singles, I can easily take control of the game
    But what I am not happy about is the things he wrote regarding Taufik's serve.. you know it is so easy to assumes that this was the winning stratergy when it was clearly nothing to do with it from the start, what if Taufik lost? Like what nanofans mentioned in the previous thread, I dont think this thread will even exist, and all this service crap will be overlooked....
    I like Taufik and I analyse alot of Taufik game to learn from him, and I disagree with what he says here, because it is so typical for Taufik to serve short in most of his singles game, he love to mix it up, sometimes wide and somtimes T's.. sometimes in between... (Sometimes I wish he can trick his opponent with flick serve but apparently he doesn't do that often)
    He only serve long against opponent who he haven't encountered before or who is unfamiliar, and the real reason he serve short against LD was because he was aware that LD has the potential to kill it immediately. And why does he serve to LD's backhand all the time? I can assure you that this is just a mere conincident since LD/BCL is a left hander, please allow me to clarify:

    If you observe Taufik's game regardless against left or right handed player, you will notice that- 1)when on the right hand side of the court, he tend to serve wide 2) on the left hand side of the court he tends to serve T..

    so you may ask:
    Why does he serve short?
    The reason to is get a perfect serve that just crawl acrross the net, to invite the opponent to play at the net (since he know he can handle the net play really well), or force the opponent to lift the shuttle to set up opportunity for attacking play.

    Why does he serve T when standing on the left court?
    Giving opponent less angle to play with, maximising the time for him to attack at the rear court if the opponent decides lift the shuttle to either corner.

    Why does he serve wide when serving from the right court?
    To invite his opponent to attack his backhand, however he is aware that he can cover that side of the court extremely well so it doesn't bother him at all, in fact he can counter attack (an unexpected backhand smash or crosscourt clear) at his backhand court which can be quite dangerous most of the time. And also it allows more time for him to move to forehand side if opponent decides to cross it as it takes longer for the shuttle to get there.. (I beieve Taufik is quite weak at covering his rear forehand corner when receiving a deep clear from opponent)

    I hope this clarify things for you, and I am arguing things from a neutral point of view, not becasue of Taufik's victory that lead me to false hypothesis..
    Last edited by Simp84; 12-15-2006 at 09:15 AM.

  8. #25
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    thanks for this very nice analysis quisitor!

    guys, where can i find the first scene? thanks in advance..

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  10. #27
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    Default Hmm, i wonder where's...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlaZe
    thanks for this very nice analysis quisitor!

    guys, where can i find the first scene? thanks in advance..
    ...scene #3??..anyone seen it??..it's been more than 48 hrs. & we haven't seen it..hmm..

  11. #28
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    Did quisitor mention or promise a scene 3?

  12. #29
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    Default A bit off topic-Hmmm, probably not...

    Quote Originally Posted by kontrabando
    Did quisitor mention or promise a scene 3?
    ...nor did he mention anything abt Scene 2 as being the "FINAL" scene..hehe
    Oh, or maybe, Q's Introduction thread below was/is his 3rd and "FINAL" scene..hmmm..hehe
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...ad.php?t=39023
    *Btw, it's a pretty good read also, if you guys like some "humour"..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 12-17-2006 at 11:39 PM.

  13. #30
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    Any Cliff Notes version of the original post?

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    Any Cliff Notes version of the original post?
    a crash course on how to beat lin dan and taufik? I'll go for that.

  15. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    Any Cliff Notes version of the original post?
    cliffnote scene one: taufik soemtimes/mostly serves wide at LD's backhand
    cliffnote scene two: Lin didn't smash so often

    really, what's all the fuss here? The observations are good, and correct, btu the conclusions are biased and exagurated

    It was clear after the first few minutes of the match that based on the front footwork tempo of Taufik and Lin, the crown would go to Taufik.

  16. #33
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    a crash course on how to beat lin dan and taufik? I'll go for that.
    A crash course for one of us to beat LD or Taufik = not possible.

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    Quisitor, thanks for the education on 'thinking badminton'.LD and TH aside , I'm curious about CJ's movement and LCW's serve. CJ seems to move like a bear, ie very fast but clumsy looking ( His speed seems boosted by his intelligent game reading.) In doing so, he burns up more energy than average so if he has two grueling matches consecutively, he's likely to lose the second. In the AG, LCW appeared to have more service faults than anyone else, quite uncharacteristic. Seems like he has changed his serve. Or am I imagining? What do you think?

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