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Thread: APACS fan club

  1. #4234
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    Ok, recently i decided to move the balance point on my lethal 90 back, just to see how it felt so I added a karakal super pu, and a towel grip on top of the original grip. The balance point was 293mm from buttcap but after mods it is 255mm! As you can tell, the racket is now very much more head light. And wierdly, and I have no idea why but as you would expect the maneuverability is faster but I am still getting the same power i got before! Anyone else tried something like this? Is this normal because I though moving the balance point back reduced power generation. Any comments would be great. Anyway, i'm very happy because now I have a perfectly padded grip that is super sweat absorbent. Havent had any racket slip either so I think this is the way forward for me. Only downside is that I don't always 'feel' where the head is anymore. Kinda miss it but I think this is worth it.

  2. #4235
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNotoriousLIG View Post
    Ok, recently i decided to move the balance point on my lethal 90 back, just to see how it felt so I added a karakal super pu, and a towel grip on top of the original grip. The balance point was 293mm from buttcap but after mods it is 255mm! As you can tell, the racket is now very much more head light. And wierdly, and I have no idea why but as you would expect the maneuverability is faster but I am still getting the same power i got before! Anyone else tried something like this? Is this normal because I though moving the balance point back reduced power generation. Any comments would be great. Anyway, i'm very happy because now I have a perfectly padded grip that is super sweat absorbent. Havent had any racket slip either so I think this is the way forward for me. Only downside is that I don't always 'feel' where the head is anymore. Kinda miss it but I think this is worth it.
    Yes, I've also noticed this. Have a read here:
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...=1#post1662865

  3. #4236
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    Thats very interesting. Well I'm not complaining. Thing is, I played a bit more just now and noticed there is a small difference in power. It is noticeable but thats probs cos of the huge change in balance point but even then, im considering removing the towel and having just a super pu as before over factory grip. If it was another racket i would leave the grip as is atm but cos this racket is so maneuverable anyway, I'm not sure the sacrafice of power is worth it. And my wrist is dead from the increased speed. Kinda painful. Advice welcome.

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    In Gollum's theory he assumed that the addition of grip is in the center of the "see-saw" and hence makes very little changes on the BP, but imo its not entirely true simply because none of us put the grip right on the middle of the BP. The evidence also shows that the overall BP shifted by adding tick grip on the handle.




    We dont put our grip in that center, do we???


    So to answer the question of why reducing BP (by adding towel grip) does not always transalate in increase of power:

    1. Overall weight of the racket has increased. Hence the increase in speed caused by the racket became more head light is to some degree offset by the speed reduction caused by the increased in overall weight. No speed (or very little speed gained) here.

    2. Overall BP has lowered, and we all know the less head heavy the racket will be less powerful.

    Combined those 2 effects, we end up with a racket that is having the same speed as before, and a racket that is less powerful than before. So no wonder we have situation like post#4234.





    The solution is to sand paper your racket head to reduce its overall weight and increase the speed.......(just kidding - so please dont do that at home) LOL

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    I think Gollum basically said that adding weight around the fulcrum point doesn't affect the balance significantly. The fulcrum point is where the racket is being gripped. So adding weight over the fulcrum point is akin to adding grip over the racket handle. Increasing the mass at the racket handle (especially where you are directly gripping it) shouldn't make a significant difference to the "head heaviness" of the racket in practise.

  6. #4239
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    I dont agree with that, it is clear that the eveidence showed by your self and TheNotoriousLIG indicates that the BP droped to 280 or 255. So how do we explain that? How about if we shift Gollum 100kg square to the right or left?? Adding weight on either handle (by using towel grip) and/or adding tape on the racket head will surely affect the racket BP. Pros use this technique all the time, LD adds a tape to make his racket head heavier.

    Actually i have seen a real solution to the problem at post#4234, if you notice top MD players they wrap their grip so high which enable them to hold the racket at the cone (rather than the bottom handle). This has an immidiate effect of reducing BP significantly without adding any weight to the racket whatsoever. If you still not sure of what i mean, you can check on guys like Sigit Budiarto - one the pioneer on the idea, which then copied by most MD player today.

  7. #4240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    I dont agree with that, it is clear that the eveidence showed by your self and TheNotoriousLIG indicates that the BP droped to 280 or 255. So how do we explain that? How about if we shift Gollum 100kg square to the right or left?? Adding weight on either handle (by using towel grip) and/or adding tape on the racket head will surely affect the racket BP. Pros use this technique all the time, LD adds a tape to make his racket head heavier.

    Actually i have seen a real solution to the problem at post#4234, if you notice top MD players they wrap their grip so high which enable them to hold the racket at the cone (rather than the bottom handle). This has an immidiate effect of reducing BP significantly without adding any weight to the racket whatsoever. If you still not sure of what i mean, you can check on guys like Sigit Budiarto - one the pioneer on the idea, which then copied by most MD player today.
    I agree with u but at the same time with SSJ100. The notion of BP is 2 fold on a racket. One is on the actual racket like U explained with the graphics of moments etc and one is where u actually HOLD on to the racket. The fact that u hold the racket on the handle makes this the center of YOUR balance for the racket.

    When different people put on their grips, they do not always put it on the same way. Some stop the grip at or before the cone, some extend the grip well onto the shaft for several Inches. Now if we follow SSJ100 reasoning which I believe is right, the latter will balance out the weight of the grip in front and behind your hand and therefor nullify the balance difference. Of course when u move the hand along the grip the racket will become lighter or heavier than what it was before.

    Bottom line is: with additional grip the overall weight of the racket increases but well wrapped up to the shaft the balance will not change (IMO).

  8. #4241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiloo View Post
    I agree with u but at the same time with SSJ100. The notion of BP is 2 fold on a racket. One is on the actual racket like U explained with the graphics of moments etc and one is where u actually HOLD on to the racket. The fact that u hold the racket on the handle makes this the center of YOUR balance for the racket.

    When different people put on their grips, they do not always put it on the same way. Some stop the grip at or before the cone, some extend the grip well onto the shaft for several Inches. Now if we follow SSJ100 reasoning which I believe is right, the latter will balance out the weight of the grip in front and behind your hand and therefor nullify the balance difference. Of course when u move the hand along the grip the racket will become lighter or heavier than what it was before.

    Bottom line is: with additional grip the overall weight of the racket increases but well wrapped up to the shaft the balance will not change (IMO).
    That's exactly what my thinking is also. Adding lead tape to the head of the racket will of course make the balance change significantly. However, adding lead tape to the handle where you grip it wouldn't change it significantly (when you swing the actual racket in practise).

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    OK here's another example: Perhaps you guys already know they way LD and TH grip their racket, they took off the original grip and add towel grip only as high as bottom half of the handle (half of the handle is uncovered and the wood can be seen). Why? To make the racket even head heavier. If Gollum theory valid, then reducing the weight of the grip dont matter, but in fact thats what top players did.

    I really not sure about that argument of BP remains the same, for me a towel gripped racket straight away fell head light incomparison to synthetic gripped, simply because cotton is heavier than synthetic material. The racket will also feel different, your swinging and timing also different, basically everything changes. And I think thats exactly why we rarely see any top players changeing their grip from synthetic to towel or vise versa.

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    Can anyone confirm that LD and TH only grip their racket up half way the handle for the reason to make the racket more head heavy? I would have thought adding lead tape to the head of the racket would have been much more effective at making the racket more head heavy.

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  12. #4245
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    That link doesn't say anything about changing the balance point to be more head heavy:
    Lin Dan’s method of grip is very rare among badminton players. So what is the reason of him doing so? According to reports, this forces Lin Dan into using the full length of the grip since he used to always hold his racket about halfway up the grip, no matter which shot he played.

    I guess Lin Dan’s feel more comfort doing so by putting the grip tape half way only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssj100 View Post
    Can anyone confirm that LD and TH only grip their racket up half way the handle for the reason to make the racket more head heavy? I would have thought adding lead tape to the head of the racket would have been much more effective at making the racket more head heavy.
    Do you have any alternative explaination why they do they way they do?? Plus how much lead tape that LD can add to the head?? He already taped the whole upper head, there is no more room to add without sacrificing movement.
    Last edited by Yoppy; 05-17-2011 at 01:41 AM.

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    Thanks for the link faidz85

    It was first actually TH who used that type of grip, LD then followed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    Do you have any alternative explaination why they do they way they do??
    The link already does - it forces Lin Dan to grip the handle nearer the bottom. Nothing to do with adding/removing weight and changing balance points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssj100 View Post
    The link already does - it forces Lin Dan to grip the handle nearer the bottom. Nothing to do with adding/removing weight and changing balance points.
    Sorry about my old tired eyes, but could not find any explainatio beside the author guessing I quote "I guess Lin Dan’s feel more comfort doing so by putting the grip tape half way only"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    Sorry about my old tired eyes, but could not find any explainatio beside the author guessing I quote "I guess Lin Dan’s feel more comfort doing so by putting the grip tape half way only"
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...=1#post1679653

    "According to reports, this forces Lin Dan into using the full length of the grip since he used to always hold his racket about halfway up the grip, no matter which shot he played."

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