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  1. #35
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    Master SH, what is the real issue then?

    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart
    Most of the crank machine spent >95% of the time in no pull mode after the break applied. We agree with you that crank machine can produce consist pull during 1 string job. However, any string machine face the same problem that you mentioned. This is a none issue. if you compare apple to apple (constant pull with fix clamp vs crank with fix clamp) or orange to orange (constant pull with fly clamp vs crank with fly clamp) what you brought up is not an issue at all.
    Last edited by Pete LSD; 12-12-2006 at 10:37 PM.

  2. #36
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    I am puzzled. Perhaps my machine is broke, or my strings are fake, or my technique is wrong. How come my string never stretch and stretch ? Once the string has been pulled to the required tension, the string cannot be pulled further by the drop weight unless I forcibly push the weight down.

    Why is everybody's string stretches infinitely but mine doesn't ?
    Last edited by CoolDoo6; 12-12-2006 at 10:38 PM.

  3. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolDoo6
    I am puzzled. Perhaps my machine is broke, or my strings are fake, or my technique is wrong. How come my string never stretch and stretch ? Once the string has been pulled to the required tension, the string cannot be pulled further by the drop weight unless I forcibly push the weight down.

    Why is everybody's string stretches infinitely but mine doesn't ?
    No, not true, your strung racquet string will "stretch". The difference between the degree of stretch between a highly tensioned string and a low-tensioned like yours is merely in the percent of stretch-creep is the right word. Also, AOTBE, the thinner and/or the more filaments the string, or the higher the tension, the more creep it suffers.
    The only time your string will not "stretch" is when it is still inside the packet.

  4. #38
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    I just want to clear the picture here about what "constant pull" really means, as it has been repeatedly referred to in this column, misleadingly, as something to be coveted and head and shoulders above the crank.
    Hardware-wise the number one factor in a good string job is a first class clamping device-and even on this, two fixed clamps to one string being pulled and tensioned is better than one fixed clamp on rotating duty-followed by a very short string distance to the tensioning head. Software-wise (the human factor), consistency and uniformity (having a cup of coffee during a stringing job is something you shouldn't do) are vital. As a matter of fact, constant pull may give you a non-consistent or non-uniform end product, only a tighter stringbed. The only time constant pull will give you a consistent end product is the use of 2 fixed clamps for every pull, which ensures you get precise tension on every pull with zero "compensating" tensioning that constant pull machines that do not use two fixed clamps for one pull are notorious for.

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    No, not true, your strung racquet string will "stretch". The difference between the degree of stretch between a highly tensioned string and a low-tensioned like yours is merely in the percent of stretch-creep is the right word. Also, AOTBE, the thinner and/or the more filaments the string, or the higher the tension, the more creep it suffers.
    The only time your string will not "stretch" is when it is still inside the packet.
    From what I read here, people's string would continue to stretch while the string is under the machine's tension. I often go off in the middle of a string job to do other things and come back 10 minutes later and see absolutely no change in the position of the weight according to its gauge. That tells me the string isn't stretching. Even if it did, it is not by a discernable amount. I string for anything upto 29lbs plus 2-3lbs to allow for imprecision based on persistent feedbacks that my strings are tighter than other stringer's.

    I am skeptical of this string stretching theory. Perhaps someone would like to produce a 10 minute video showing the string being noticibly stretched simply by leaving it under the machine tension for the duration. If your machine does that, I would suggest the machine is faulty and should be returned to the shop for a refund.

  6. #40
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    Sorry to ask this stupid question. Can you clarify this question for me. To use 2 fix clamps on mains, you will need to use starting clamp and finish the job on one side and tide that side first, right? I have always hear and thought that is a no no even on the 6pt mounting sys because it will put too much stress on the side without string @ high tension (27lb+). Or are you suggesting that we should use a stringer with 4 fix clamps? If it is the second, could you provide us the make and model of the stringing machine please? Because I never saw one before.

    Also, Constant pull machine is a advantage for stringer because many of stringers (including me) like to leave the string on the pulling head while stringing the next main or weaving the next cross. If that is the case, the constant pull machine is a better choice because it min the tension creep. However, a crank machine with brake will start to lose tension once the brake is engaged. I believe you mention before that you add extra tension to "compensate" for that tension loss. That mean your practice is to comp with crank machine.

    I have no doubt that you are very experienced stringer and you know how much to comp for the tension lost. However, depend on the stringer's practice and experience, compensation might not be needed for constant pull machine with 2 fix clamps.

    As I posted before, I feel it is best to stick with 1 experienced stringer who use 1 machine he/she knows well. Many time, we string our own racquet to save money or the racquet is our baby and we just don't trust anyone else to change the diaper (or string). Also, a stringer buy a specific kind of string machine for his own budget, practice and purpose (in alpha order). I just want to point out that with a drop weight machine, I am able to get a very consistant and reproduceable results just like you with a crank machine with adjustment and compensaion.

  7. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolDoo6
    From what I read here, people's string would continue to stretch while the string is under the machine's tension. I often go off in the middle of a string job to do other things and come back 10 minutes later and see absolutely no change in the position of the weight according to its gauge. That tells me the string isn't stretching. Even if it did, it is not by a discernable amount. I string for anything upto 29lbs plus 2-3lbs to allow for imprecision based on persistent feedbacks that my strings are tighter than other stringer's.

    I am skeptical of this string stretching theory. Perhaps someone would like to produce a 10 minute video showing the string being noticibly stretched simply by leaving it under the machine tension for the duration. If your machine does that, I would suggest the machine is faulty and should be returned to the shop for a refund.
    May I suggest a experiment for you. If you have a bubble level (or lazer level is the best), mount it on the drop weight bar. Get a piece of left over string that is long enough for tensioning. Just tension it @ 25lb and make sure it is perfectly level. Observe the level after 10min, 30min, 1hr, 2hr and over night. I think you will see the difference. Another example is a piano, a perfectly tuned piano will be out of tune after 1 yr even without playing.

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolDoo6
    From what I read here, people's string would continue to stretch while the string is under the machine's tension. I often go off in the middle of a string job to do other things and come back 10 minutes later and see absolutely no change in the position of the weight according to its gauge. That tells me the string isn't stretching. Even if it did, it is not by a discernable amount. I string for anything upto 29lbs plus 2-3lbs to allow for imprecision based on persistent feedbacks that my strings are tighter than other stringer's.

    I am skeptical of this string stretching theory. Perhaps someone would like to produce a 10 minute video showing the string being noticibly stretched simply by leaving it under the machine tension for the duration. If your machine does that, I would suggest the machine is faulty and should be returned to the shop for a refund.
    Ah, what you see is not what you get in strings at the molecular level. You only see the "skin" jacket, not the thousands of filaments underneath.
    You can string two identical racquets with identical string and tension (suggest 25lbs), one with a fast uniform tensioning interval and another with a 10 mins tensioning interval. Do you think both will feel the same?

  9. #43
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    Let us look at it this way. A stringing machine's job is divided into holding and securing the frame firmly, pulling and tensioning each string uniformly with a precise set tension on each pull, and lastly to have clamps that will hold the tensioned strings well. The tensioner should get out of the way after doing its job of reaching and delivering the set tension, because it is not its business to keep pulling after the clamp has locked out.
    Yes, uniformity is more important. Never mind if your crank machine is not accurate. More important is that it should deliver each pull (there are 44 pulls) with the same set tension and get lost after a clamp is used to clamp the tensioned string. The next job is for the clamp, which also requires uniformity, and if it loses 5% tension because of its less than stellar performance, it doesn't matter because it uniformly loses 5% on every string. With improper use of constant pull machines you can end up using "constant pull" for things that it should not be doing, like tightening and stretching prior strings in addition to the one being tensioned. A tighter stringbed is not necessarily a consistent and an uniform string job.

  10. #44
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    You are stretching the comparison to include the clamping devices. Others are simply stating the fundamental difference between crank and drop weight.

  11. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolDoo6
    I am puzzled. Perhaps my machine is broke, or my strings are fake, or my technique is wrong. How come my string never stretch and stretch ? Once the string has been pulled to the required tension, the string cannot be pulled further by the drop weight unless I forcibly push the weight down.

    Why is everybody's string stretches infinitely but mine doesn't ?
    from www.ashawayusa.com
    Racket Stringing Tips
    No. 2
    "A racket loses roughly 10 percent of its tension the day after it’s strung-and that’s if it’s not used. The tension will drop further every time you play it. “Creep,” or loss of tension, is due to stretch at the molecular level, and it’s a fact of life: work with it, don’t fight it. Think of stringing tension in terms of initial, or “reference” tension."

    Different strings creep at different rates. Thickness and construction each have an effect. Strings with a braided outer layer seem to resist creep a lot.
    Your favourite Ashaway Microlegend strings have this construction, and Ashaway claim that ML has a "superior tension holding" property.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  12. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolDoo6
    I am skeptical of this string stretching theory. Perhaps someone would like to produce a 10 minute video showing the string being noticibly stretched simply by leaving it under the machine tension for the duration.
    We are equally sceptical of your theory that strings do not creep.
    Perhaps you could produce a 10 minute video showing the string not creeping by leaving it under the machine tension for the duration.

  13. #47
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    Maybe CD found the magic formula (blue pill?) to reinvigorate his MOI less string + racquet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Nicholls
    We are equally sceptical of your theory that strings do not creep.
    Perhaps you could produce a 10 minute video showing the string not creeping by leaving it under the machine tension for the duration.

  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete LSD
    Maybe CD found the magic formula (blue pill?) to reinvigorate his MOI less string + racquet.
    Since the blue pill has been found, it's time for me to unsubscribe to this thread.

    It's always the same, going round and round with no new ground broken.

  15. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolDoo6
    Perhaps someone would like to produce a 10 minute video showing the string being noticibly stretched simply by leaving it under the machine tension for the duration.
    I'll see what I can do. I might only be able to capture in motion-JPEG format.

    edit:
    and I'll have to decide what string to use, because I don't particularly want to use off-cuts as they will probably have been pre-stretched
    Last edited by Neil Nicholls; 12-13-2006 at 09:33 AM.

  16. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Nicholls
    I'll see what I can do. I might only be able to capture in motion-JPEG format.

    edit:
    and I'll have to decide what string to use, because I don't particularly want to use off-cuts as they will probably have been pre-stretched
    No need to go to all that trouble. Let the tensioning stretch the string and note down the amount of stretch, after the string is already at the right tension. I doubt you will see much movement in the following 10 minutes, if you have a drop weight machine.

    I have no idea how a crank machines work. If there's springs involved, I imagine there could be delayed spring action after the 'correct' tension is attained. I would see this as a problem with the machine and not the string.

    Unlike the experience of people here, my strings take about 1 sec to stretch out and doesn't go on and on to the point of making me bored.
    Last edited by CoolDoo6; 12-13-2006 at 03:40 PM.

  17. #51
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    Here's the highlights then:
    Ashaway MicroPower XL at just under 24lb
    zip 1 contains the first minute at 10 second intervals
    zip 2 contains the next 5 minutess at 1 minute intervals
    numbers in the filenames are mmss
    Attached Files Attached Files

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