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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum
    London's ethno-economic profile hardly represents "the black average". (This is a good thing for London. I believe it's one of the best examples of ethnic integration. Huzzah for immigrants, say I.)

    The black average is rather better represented by Africa. That's where most black people live, you know. With the possible exceptions of South Africa and Egypt, I don't think badminton would be economically feasible as a mass-participation sport anywhere in Africa (and in those countries, it would probably be whites, indo-asians, and arabs making up the "mass").

    Even in London, black people are economically disadvantaged compared to white people (also educationally, which certainly does have something to do with culture, I'm afraid, based on my knowledge of the Oxford Access scheme).
    If you want to cherry pick only the successful black athletes from africa, then I guess you will have to conclude black people hardly play any sport.

    Sporting success is more to do with government investment than to do with economics. This is easily illustrated by the success in badminton of a relatively poor country like China: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications.../2004rank.html

    For whatever the reasons, African countries place little emphasis on investing in the badminton sport, consequently they don't achieve success. It has nothing to do with the black people being too poor, too tall, too big, too short, or whatever other reasons. Same could be said of the american government's lack of interest in badminton. Surely we can't be saying that american's don't do well in badminton because they are poor and under privilaged ?

    Badminton is alive in its own way in africa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa_...ton_Federation
    Last edited by CoolDoo6; 12-16-2006 at 06:02 PM.

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananaboy
    American football is nothing more than a gang brawl... and you ever wonder why it is only popular in North America only, really... If we allow physical attacks on the opponent or even own partner during a badminton game, I bet it will be popular in the U.S as well...

    I still don't understand why they call it "foot"ball, when mostly they carry the ball with their "hands"???

    Average height and weight for most Asians are shorter and weight less than other culture, but at the same time there are more overly fat people in other culture as well... have you seen some of them today, since you live in the U.S???
    I won't post a whole argument to defend the merits of American football, but I'll just say it's quite misunderstood. There are tons of nuances, and strategically much more complicated than badminton. Casual viewers or those unfamiliar with the sport only see a pile of bodies, yet there is much more to it.

    That's not to say I dislike badminton, it's my favorite sport to play by far, but it's tiring to see so many people from the rest of the world bash American football due to lack of knowledge. Plus, I hold this view despite not having been born in the U.S.

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacyus
    I won't post a whole argument to defend the merits of American football, but I'll just say it's quite misunderstood. There are tons of nuances, and strategically much more complicated than badminton. Casual viewers or those unfamiliar with the sport only see a pile of bodies, yet there is much more to it.

    That's not to say I dislike badminton, it's my favorite sport to play by far, but it's tiring to see so many people from the rest of the world bash American football due to lack of knowledge. Plus, I hold this view despite not having been born in the U.S.
    Not to be funny. But coming from someone like me who knows little of american football, the sport resembles more a multiple pile-up on the motorway than anything else. One can't help wondering if these players should be wearing their seat belts.

  4. #21
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    Just a very small slice of what happens: the Washington Redskins' current offensive playbook is upwards of 700 pages. Now those are only set plays each player must know, and doesn't account for individual technique such as leverage, reaction at the snap of the play, on-the-fly adjustments, reading defenses, etc.

  5. #22
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    it is always very sensitive when race is involved. i will let this thread run for now but becareful what is said. it will be locked as soon as we see the discussions start to get out of hand.

  6. #23
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    Most of the observations made here have cultural explanations. Asian Americans don't play football because they aren't big enough? I'm not buying it. Even at my age, I'm shorter than the average 17-year-old Korean boy. I played Canadian football in high school, starting when I was 5'4" and 130lbs and there were two boys on our team who were much smaller than me. Why did I play despite my size? I was a 14-year-old swayed by media images of toughness and the popularity that would come with being the quarterback of the team. These things have an impact. Now, lots of young people have cultural reasons for rejecting this type of image or have alternative images that appeal to them. Now body type might dissuade some Asian kids from playing "football" but if that were the only reason, then you would have the same proportion of big Asian kids playing as you have from the non-Asian (read: large?) student population. Is that true? Or do you have even taller and more muscular Asian kids disproportionately opting for different sports? If the latter is the case, then you are looking at a cultural reason. Also, as Crazypeetee246 pointed out, people who engage in certain lifestyles, for whatever reason, tend to end up with a body type that one associates with that type of lifestyle.

    I like the irony of income level being part of the discussion. When I was in university, the school newspaper reported that the "football" team's budget was equal to the money spent on all other sports combined. Obviously, there is a difference in culture which makes it possible for schools in North America to operate, at little added expense for students, football programs that can lead even to pro careers. At the same time, however, badminton, a much cheaper sport fundamentally, is relegated to expensive private clubs or to school programs which are inadequate for producing elite athletes. I'm not calling into question any observations here on the income level factor. I just like the irony.

    In a different vein, this story on the old thread cooler pointed to earlier, makes me wonder if it is about the same player I remember seeing mentioned in Sports Illustrated back in the 80s. SI, which would never run an article on badminton, did, nonetheless, show a picture of an African American badminton player in one of its tiny "Faces in the Crowd" blurbs, mentioning that this kid had won the national high school championships in singles, doubles, and mixed. I remember thinking that such a triple crown was an amazing achievement in itself but I never heard anything about that player again.

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacyus
    I won't post a whole argument to defend the merits of American football, but I'll just say it's quite misunderstood. There are tons of nuances, and strategically much more complicated than badminton. Casual viewers or those unfamiliar with the sport only see a pile of bodies, yet there is much more to it.

    That's not to say I dislike badminton, it's my favorite sport to play by far, but it's tiring to see so many people from the rest of the world bash American football due to lack of knowledge. Plus, I hold this view despite not having been born in the U.S.
    i think it was just a instinctive reaction from bananaboy. If u do a search in BF, quite a few badminton students/players were ridiculed by football players at school.

    Also to be fair, bananaboy forgot about rugby. It's cheap to rumble (except the medical bills) and players are mostly non-blacks

  8. #25
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    The major international tournaments are dominated by a core of list of countries which, in my opinion, comprise China, Malaysia, Indonesia, S. Korea, Denmark and UK. Other countries do appear but only due to having ex-pat players from the core countries (eg France with Pi Hongyan, USA with Tony Gunawan etc).

    There are very few black players at major tournaments (although I recall that maybe Uganda or Kenya sent a team to the last Commonwealth Games). However, there are also very few, if any, hispanic players, European players (other than English and Danish) , Middle-Eastern players etc.

    As the sport grows in popularity I'm sure we'll see a greater ethnic diversity and then who knows what race the world champion will be. Someone said to me the other day "If someone had come up to you 10 years ago and said to you that in 10 years time the most succesful golfer in the world will be black and the most succesful rapper in the world will be white, would you have believed them?"

    It may also be that children of black, middle-eastern, hispanic etc immigrants don't play because there's no history of the game in their culture and also there are no role models to encourage them. It would be interesting to know how many black kids took up golf after seeking Tiger Woods succeed, or how many black kids took up tennis after seeing the Williams sisters succeed.

    After typing out this detailed response, I thought of a much simpler way of expressing it : The answer is probably the same as "Why don't chinese people play cricket?" -

  9. #26
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    Just another quick note on culture. There is obviously some correlation, at least, between regions where badminton has traditionally been popular and places with certain ethnic makeups. To wit, the lack of popularity of badminton in North America has been lamented repeatedly on this forum. Hence, explaining the badminton's position in a given region, income level or ethnic group has to start with an explanation of its position in the mainstream. I'm reminded of an episode of the TV show "The Wire", in which two of the stars are reminiscing about their follies as kids, including one episode when one boy, on a dare, stole a badminton set from a store. The other recalls chastising him saying "What're you doing stealing a badminton set when we ain't got no yard?"(paraphrased from memory) This stereotype has been repeated by many on this forum (and by Howard Bach over the PA system in Anaheim - "This ain't no backyard barbecue!") and it is not unique to the U.S., let alone to any one American sub-culture.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by crosscourt
    The answer is probably the same as "Why don't chinese people play cricket?" -
    I like this, and all the others like it:
    Why don't Mongolians play hockey?
    Why don't Danes play sepak takraw?
    Why don't Pakistanis play volleyball?
    Why don't Indonesians play crokinole?
    Last edited by event; 12-16-2006 at 08:47 PM.

  11. #28
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    it's quite puzzling tho that US was once a prominent force in world badminton. I don't know what cause it to wane.

  12. #29
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    I'm getting a bit confused here. Is the question referring to amateur players? If you haven't seen black people at the amateur level, you just haven't played around the world enough.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    it's quite puzzling tho that US was once a prominent force in world badminton. I don't know what cause it to wane.
    A lot of countries do well in a sport that is in its infancy. That's why Canada once dominated short-track speed-skating, ice hockey, synchronized swimming, squash, and freestyle skiing. We lost our prominence in those sports once other countries came along with better systems or larger populations. I'm not saying badminton was in its infancy when the U.S. was a badminton power but it was closer to that stage then than it is now. Also, the U.S. isn't Canada. It has enough money and people that it can produce a winning program in a sport with even worldwide popularity. It isn't too surprising that the U.S. was a power back in the 50s and 60s given the combination of lack of maturity of the sport's global development, the fact that professional sports were nowhere near the stellar heights they have reached since, and the sheer size and wealth of the U.S. at that time. Also, China, Indonesia, and Korea had not yet ascended at that time so, especially in the women's events, the U.S. had a better shot at titles.

  14. #31
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    it's quite puzzling tho that US was once a prominent force in world badminton. I don't know what cause it to wane.
    Easy, no money. It's all about the Benjamins.

  15. #32
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    Or you mean water .

    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    Easy, no money. It's all about the Benjamins.

  16. #33
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    Agree with what Gollum said about badminton being expensive. Two other factors in the U.S.: prize money and exposure/advertising/awareness.

    I grew up in West Los Angeles and we really never heard much about badminton much less had a team or even played it. None of the junior or even high schools in a 20 mile radius had a badminton team. It's not until you get in the San Gabriel Valley area, where it's predominately Asian do you have schools with Badminton teams.

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot
    Easy, no money. It's all about the Benjamins.
    yes, it's more sensitive than the topic 'race'.


    It's so true, it is all about the money - the lack of it or potential for making it. I watch Report On Business TV, which hosted by kevin O'leary and Amanda Lang.


    Kevin: "It's all about the money."
    Amanda: "What about Love?"
    Kevin: "Watch how it evaporates when there is no money."
    - Kevin O'Leary, ROBTV (2006)

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