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  1. #7056
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    OK... I shall accept and agree with what you have said:

    "When LCW fails, his coach is not the one solely to be blamed".
    .
    I wish you could have stand by your view because it's absolutely logical that no one should be blame other LCW himself. Afterall, who's the one who brought about the result? Only he himself knows what's going on during matchplay. Things like nerves, temperament and the likes are beyond the control of anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by bogensaebel View Post
    I agree...

    sounds better...before it 'sounds like' lcw himself blame his coaches which is not true, whereas the truth is the media and some fans do that and definitely not him...I'm out of confusion LOL..
    Don't laugh, once upon a time he did blame his coach. Remember Yap Kim Hock? He was the one who was blamed for asserting too much pressure on him and is now "buang" into obscurity. Talking about pressure; only losers cannot handle pressure; now who in God's name should soley be blamed?

    Just my p.o.v., no offense.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Read more: Reunion on the cards - Badminton - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/sports/badmint...#ixzz1hXLVTDq0
    .
    With reference to that article, I think the reason behind LCWs predicament is crystal clear.

    Rather than using his own analytical mind he had always preferred to be spoon fed. Yet again he is acting like an infant. Those people he is asking for were there for him before. Although there were some success but the outcome towards his goal is still wanting. As Ive said before, foreign assistance can only help to a certain extent. On court he is the one who is facing the challenge and all on his own. Outside of court he has got to stop being the pillion rider who could easily fall asleep thereby not knowing the actual direction. No matter what, he has got to take the driver seat and find his own way using pillion rider/s only as guidance. Then, and only then will he have the actual sense of direction towards his destination.

    And here again is the blaming game. By wishing for a reunion with his former mentor (smart of him not to insist), even though with the slightest of hint, he is sub-consciously blaming the inefficiencies of his current coaches. So said; unless he grows up and take full responsibilities, he shall remain a pale shadow of his true calibre.

  2. #7057
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    Thumbs up

    Chriss, I almost forgot, kudos to you for being diplomatic.
    Last edited by OldBadFan; 12-25-2011 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Attached the wrong quote...

  3. #7058
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldBadFan View Post
    Remember Yap Kim Hock?
    now you said I remembered that old story...I don't experience any coach-player relationship or intensive coaching under any coach, therefore I can't comment like I knew...maybe like you said of him behaving like an infant is true, or maybe what he said is undeniably true since only him knowing what's really is going on, not you, not me, not everyone else....or maybe that's only his answers for the sake of reporter's questions...furthermore it's well known that he's comfortable under Misbun, so nothing's wrong in seeking his assistance or asking for his return to BAM..its not like him giving an ultimatum..
    What I want to say it, whatever saga is running behind the curtain, I believe he can challenge or even outcome LD once he's physically fresh...that's when he's most stable on court..just hope for the best in OG12

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    Quote Originally Posted by bogensaebel View Post
    now you said I remembered that old story...I don't experience any coach-player relationship or intensive coaching under any coach, therefore I can't comment like I knew...maybe like you said of him behaving like an infant is true, or maybe what he said is undeniably true since only him knowing what's really is going on, not you, not me, not everyone else....or maybe that's only his answers for the sake of reporter's questions...furthermore it's well known that he's comfortable under Misbun, so nothing's wrong in seeking his assistance or asking for his return to BAM..its not like him giving an ultimatum..
    What I want to say it, whatever saga is running behind the curtain, I believe he can challenge or even outcome LD once he's physically fresh...that's when he's most stable on court..just hope for the best in OG12
    Hmmm...just like you I'm also hoping and wishing that he could do us proud instead of banging my head as to what's actually his setbacks. Anyways, nice sharing views with you.

  5. #7060
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldBadFan View Post
    I wish you could have stand by your view because it's absolutely logical that no one should be blame other LCW himself. Afterall, who's the one who brought about the result? Only he himself knows what's going on during matchplay. Things like nerves, temperament and the likes are beyond the control of anyone else.

    Don't laugh, once upon a time he did blame his coach. Remember Yap Kim Hock? He was the one who was blamed for asserting too much pressure on him and is now "buang" into obscurity. Talking about pressure; only losers cannot handle pressure; now who in God's name should soley be blamed?

    Just my p.o.v., no offense.

    With reference to that article, I think the reason behind LCWs predicament is crystal clear.

    Rather than using his own analytical mind he had always preferred to be spoon fed. Yet again he is acting like an infant. Those people he is asking for were there for him before. Although there were some success but the outcome towards his goal is still wanting. As Ive said before, foreign assistance can only help to a certain extent. On court he is the one who is facing the challenge and all on his own. Outside of court he has got to stop being the pillion rider who could easily fall asleep thereby not knowing the actual direction. No matter what, he has got to take the driver seat and find his own way using pillion rider/s only as guidance. Then, and only then will he have the actual sense of direction towards his destination.

    And here again is the blaming game. By wishing for a reunion with his former mentor (smart of him not to insist), even though with the slightest of hint, he is sub-consciously blaming the inefficiencies of his current coaches. So said; unless he grows up and take full responsibilities, he shall remain a pale shadow of his true calibre.
    .
    Yes, you are correct... Some 4 years ago, LCW did blame Yap Kim Hock for asserting too much pressure on him. And then later, YKH was removed.

    Later, BAM also put on pressure on Misbun to get LCW going. Thinking about it, somehow BAM never put on pressure on LCW. In this way, perhaps LCW is spoilt by BAM.

    At the time when Misbun resigned from the BAM set-up, and Taufik also resigned from the Pelatnas set-up. I was also hoping that LCW would leave BAM to go independent too (This was because LCW did mention that he might go independent too).

    Now, rewinding the clock to think about it, I guess it could have been better if LCW have gone independent. I think LCW should do better if he thinks of winning matches for himself first, and not thinking of winning for Malaysia, BAM, his coaches, etc, etc,......

    LCW should think of himself as boss, and should only blame himself when not performing well.
    .

  6. #7061
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldBadFan View Post
    Chriss, I almost forgot, kudos to you for being diplomatic.
    .
    Hahaha... This is a public forum. We need to be careful with what we say.
    .

  7. #7062
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Hahaha... This is a public forum. We need to be careful with what we say.
    .
    got what you mean and my apology for mis-spelling your name...

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldBadFan View Post
    Hmmm...just like you I'm also hoping and wishing that he could do us proud instead of banging my head as to what's actually his setbacks. Anyways, nice sharing views with you.
    nice sharing with you too..

    the judgments/assumptions are full of 'maybe's...it's full of fun and joyful either you propose or oppose...but still better enjoy the games...

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    Misbun did not play a single part in LCW position currently. He is a good coach but to say he is the driving force behind LCW's successes are completely ridiculous. If he is as good as everyone acclaimed, I wonder why there's no juniors emulating LCW under his charge. To put things into perspective, LCW's deadly smashes and fitness dramatically improved when Li Mao crossed over to coach him. Misbun was more and less a spectator, no disrespect to him. At the moment, what he needs is a good lesson to learnt from an outstanding coach like Park Joo Bong or Tang Xianhu. They are the only coaches whom i identified so far that could make a lot of difference to the outcome with their presence.

  10. #7065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miqilin7 View Post
    Misbun did not play a single part in LCW position currently. He is a good coach but to say he is the driving force behind LCW's successes are completely ridiculous. If he is as good as everyone acclaimed, I wonder why there's no juniors emulating LCW under his charge. To put things into perspective, LCW's deadly smashes and fitness dramatically improved when Li Mao crossed over to coach him. Misbun was more and less a spectator, no disrespect to him. At the moment, what he needs is a good lesson to learnt from an outstanding coach like Park Joo Bong or Tang Xianhu. They are the only coaches whom i identified so far that could make a lot of difference to the outcome with their presence.
    when LCW himself seeks advises from Misbun and asking for his return, you're beyond his own thought though LOL...maybe you know what's the best for him more than himself...you should email him or BAM

  11. #7066
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogensaebel View Post
    nice sharing with you too..

    the judgments/assumptions are full of 'maybe's...it's full of fun and joyful either you propose or oppose...but still better enjoy the games...
    agreed, it's fun to us all who do not take all these hypotheses too seriously...much that I enjoy watching the substance within the game, it's becoming a norm for me to have such agonizing reactions "come on Datuk, you can do it...oh no not again"...guess it's the same feeling to all fellow M'sian, isn't it?

  12. #7067
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    It's not just about M'sians. It is about all fans everywhere who want to see badminton flourish beyond the hegemony of the Chinese team. I grant that they (the CBA) may have worked very hard to deserve their predominant position, but that is no excuse for the decline of other powerhouses. And when things are so badly mismanaged as in the case of BAM you kinda feel at a loss....

    That IMO is why it is doubly important that LCW wins the WC and the OG golds. But now, he will first have to overcome his own demons, before he can overcome his opponents.

    I cannot blame him completely for his situation. There are just too many factors, force vectors, influences (some subtle, some not so subtle) conditions, that are at play. Who among us are in total control of our lives, and responsible for decisions that shape our destinies? How many well-meaning but ill-advised people have helped make LCW the person he is today?

    When you are young and talented, and are told "you just worry about your game and focus on your training; leave the rest to us" you put your faith in these words because you trust; you need to have faith in something. So if the boy has not gown up, and if he has very few convictions, and if he does not possess the courage of his convictions, I will point one finger at him. And the other three fingers at all the people around him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    OK... I shall accept and agree with what you have said:

    "When LCW fails, his coach is not the one solely to be blamed".
    .
    Its a team efforts...........so when he failed, the whole team failed.....not LCW and his coaches only to be blamed.............!!

  14. #7069
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    It's not just about M'sians. It is about all fans everywhere who want to see badminton flourish beyond the hegemony of the Chinese team. I grant that they (the CBA) may have worked very hard to deserve their predominant position, but that is no excuse for the decline of other powerhouses. And when things are so badly mismanaged as in the case of BAM you kinda feel at a loss....

    That IMO is why it is doubly important that LCW wins the WC and the OG golds. But now, he will first have to overcome his own demons, before he can overcome his opponents.

    I cannot blame him completely for his situation. There are just too many factors, force vectors, influences (some subtle, some not so subtle) conditions, that are at play. Who among us are in total control of our lives, and responsible for decisions that shape our destinies? How many well-meaning but ill-advised people have helped make LCW the person he is today?

    When you are young and talented, and are told "you just worry about your game and focus on your training; leave the rest to us" you put your faith in these words because you trust; you need to have faith in something. So if the boy has not gown up, and if he has very few convictions, and if he does not possess the courage of his convictions, I will point one finger at him. And the other three fingers at all the people around him.

    When the conversation is between two fellow countrymen, it’s just instinctive to make any reference\s to other fellow countrymen, nothing unusual. The game is not just for M’sians; I know that.

    As I view the game as it is, taking other factors and happenings surrounding it as part and parcel which add spice; whoever is predominant isn’t an issue. Though at times predominance may seem boring to others, I would adhere to the notion whoever perform better deserves that position. I wouldn’t wish someone in particular to counter that position because sooner or later that particular truly capable someone will emerge. If the game is performed with substance that is worth watching, whoever the performer is would still be enjoyable.

    Granting that your accusation of BAM’s mismanagement is factual, it’s still not appropriate as an excuse. A simple web search will provide loads of explanations and quotes on the meaning of “blaming” and where it leads to. Here are some notable ones:

    "The impulse to blame others is an attempt to escape responsibilities”,
    "No one is a failure until they blame somebody else” and
    "The superior man blames himself. The inferior man blames others”.

    It's just tit for tat, hope there's nothing offending in it.
    BTW, this is no shoe polishing; your command of English istruly commendable.
    Last edited by OldBadFan; 12-25-2011 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Tidy up.

  15. #7070
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    From Lee Chong Wei
    To: OldBadFan

    Greetings, sir! I am all for taking responsibility of my actions. I am all for owning up to my shortcomings, or my fears. I am all for accepting that I am to blame for coming up short when it really matters.

    Now I ask: if many years ago I was on par, and if very recently a man like Morten Frost no less, said on live television in no uncertain terms, that I am the best player in the world today in badminton terms, then why am I still playing like a novice against those 2 other guys? Why does it happen every time? They play their game according to their plans, but suddenly I just cannot play my natural game anymore! Why do I not quake and tremble when I play anyone else, no matter how fast he be, or how hard he smash, or how long he may rally? What do those two have on me?

    So I ask you: when did I develop this mental block and mental weakness against a certain type of player? What are they doing so successfully, that it unfailingly exposes my vulnerability?

    I don't know. I was hoping many years ago that all the highly-paid and educated and experienced people around me could come up with an answer; and a lasting solution.

    I am willing to accept the blame, like any decent, self-respecting person. But that does not solve the problem. I cannot solve the problem. I had a father-figure who protected me from myself, now I have a bunch of court jesters. Even my father-figure never did find the solution to my problem; maybe he could have, maybe not, if he stayed on. (cobalt: and that's another story! )

    I am doing everything I can. I dominate 99% of all matches I play; it has been like this for many years now. The people around me who were there to fulfill certain key tasks thought they had nothing left to do; while I kept winning titles and stuff.

    You say, "I would adhere to the notion whoever perform better deserves that position." Who will tell me that LD and CL would still be the same force they are today without the selfless work, single-minded determination and devotion of people like LYB, TXH,XXZ, the backroom teams of analysts, mental conditioning experts, strategists, sports scientists, trainers, nutritionists and more? Everyone knows that the players are the raw material; the finished product is the result of process -- collaboration, teamwork, research, practise, objective, etc. (Granted, the raw material itself must be high-grade for the finished product to be top quality! That is why we have a "process of elimination.") When CL was left to play his natural game, everyone used to beat him. Now, in the past 6 months, he is almost invincible. Do you really believe he did it on his own?

    So where is the question of "excuse?" These are the facts of the matter. I accept that I am responsible for my losses. I accept that I have a problem. I also stress that I do not know how to solve this problem; it is not tactical or physical. It is strategic and mental and psychological. I have asked my bosses, what needs to be done? But my bosses say, "don't worry we have full faith in you, just practise hard, you are #1" and now I am even more stressed out. Because I feel responsible.

    I have certain duties and obligations. I am also owed certain support and inputs if I am expected to fulfill my duties and obligations at an international level. That is only natural. If the quality of that support and input is lacking, am I not justified in pointing fingers? I have not pointed any fingers yet because I am a nice guy and because I like free cars and massage chairs, gold coins and shares. But don't forget, I am given all that because I have performed. What about those around me who have just had a free ride? When are you going to acknowledge that I have not taken my game to that final level of mental invincibility, because my own people, who I trusted and publicly stood by all this time (and still do) have let me down, and continue to do so, by constantly refusing to be more inclusive with outside professionals who bring the value-addition, no matter what?

    Which national association has a part-time director of high-performance, for 2 years, who is more conspicuous by his absence?

    While the internet is a great source of information and sometimes, unnecessary and often misleading and convenient quotes, I would also like to draw your attention to the simple definition of "blame":
    To hold responsible.
    To find fault with
    To censure

    You will notice that I do not need an "excuse" to lay some old-fashioned "blame" at the door of the people I work with. But I am a G**-fearing man and I don't do all that. It is people like that devil, cobalt, who points fingers and blames others. Because he is not connected, has nothing to gain or lose, and has no manners.

    Your humble servant,
    Chong Wei.
    Last edited by cobalt; 12-25-2011 at 10:23 PM.

  16. #7071
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    From Lee Chong Wei
    To: OldBadFan

    Greetings, sir! I am all for taking responsibility of my actions. I am all for owning up to my shortcomings, or my fears. I am all for accepting that I am to blame for coming up short when it really matters.

    Now I ask: if many years ago I was on par, and if very recently a man like Morten Frost no less, said on live television in no uncertain terms, that I am the best player in the world today in badminton terms, then why am I still playing like a novice against those 2 other guys? Why does it happen every time? They play their game according to their plans, but suddenly I just cannot play my natural game anymore! Why do I not quake and tremble when I play anyone else, no matter how fast he be, or how hard he smash, or how long he may rally? What do those two have on me?

    So I ask you: when did I develop this mental block and mental weakness against a certain type of player? What are they doing so successfully, that it unfailingly exposes my vulnerability?

    I don't know. I was hoping many years ago that all the highly-paid and educated and experienced people around me could come up with an answer; and a lasting solution.

    I am willing to accept the blame, like any decent, self-respecting person. But that does not solve the problem. I cannot solve the problem. I had a father-figure who protected me from myself, now I have a bunch of court jesters. Even my father-figure never did find the solution to my problem; maybe he could have, maybe not, if he stayed on. (cobalt: and that's another story! )

    I am doing everything I can. I dominate 99% of all matches I play; it has been like this for many years now. The people around me who were there to fulfill certain key tasks thought they had nothing left to do; while I kept winning titles and stuff.

    You say, "I would adhere to the notion whoever perform better deserves that position." Who will tell me that LD and CL would still be the same force they are today without the selfless work, single-minded determination and devotion of people like LYB, TXH,XXZ, the backroom teams of analysts, mental conditioning experts, strategists, sports scientists, trainers, nutritionists and more? Everyone knows that the players are the raw material; the finished product is the result of process -- collaboration, teamwork, research, practise, objective, etc. (Granted, the raw material itself must be high-grade for the finished product to be top quality! That is why we have a "process of elimination.") When CL was left to play his natural game, everyone used to beat him. Now, in the past 6 months, he is almost invincible. Do you really believe he did it on his own?

    So where is the question of "excuse?" These are the facts of the matter. I accept that I am responsible for my losses. I accept that I have a problem. I also stress that I do not know how to solve this problem; it is not tactical or physical. It is strategic and mental and psychological. I have asked my bosses, what needs to be done? But my bosses say, "don't worry we have full faith in you, just practise hard, you are #1" and now I am even more stressed out. Because I feel responsible.

    I have certain duties and obligations. I am also owed certain support and inputs if I am expected to fulfill my duties and obligations at an international level. That is only natural. If the quality of that support and input is lacking, am I not justified in pointing fingers? I have not pointed any fingers yet because I am a nice guy and because I like free cars and massage chairs, gold coins and shares. But don't forget, I am given all that because I have performed. What about those around me who have just had a free ride? When are you going to acknowledge that I have not taken my game to that final level of mental invincibility, because my own people, who I trusted and publicly stood by all this time (and still do) have let me down, and continue to do so, by constantly refusing to be more inclusive with outside professionals who bring the value-addition, no matter what?

    Which national association has a part-time director of high-performance, for 2 years, who is more conspicuous by his absence?

    While the internet is a great source of information and sometimes, unnecessary and often misleading and convenient quotes, I would also like to draw your attention to the simple definition of "blame":
    To hold responsible.
    To find fault with
    To censure

    You will notice that I do not need an "excuse" to lay some old-fashioned "blame" at the door of the people I work with. But I am a G**-fearing man and I don't do all that. It is people like that devil, cobalt, who points fingers and blames others. Because he is not connected, has nothing to gain or lose, and has no manners.

    Your humble servant,
    Chong Wei.
    .
    Come on cobalt; Lee Chong Wei doesn't need to say all that.

    LCW only needs to stay focused and to stay confident to win his matches.

    LCW should think positive, and believe that he is the best player in the world.

    Currently, as we BCers read into LCW's mind, we somehow feel that LCW is thinking that he not is the best player in the world. And this is the reason why LCW feels so insecure.

    BTW, this is only my opinion.

  17. #7072
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Come on cobalt; Lee Chong Wei doesn't need to say all that.

    LCW only needs to stay focused and to stay confident to win his matches.

    LCW should think positive, and believe that he is the best player in the world.

    Currently, as we BCers read into LCW's mind, we somehow feel that LCW is thinking that he not is the best player in the world. And this is the reason why LCW feels so insecure.

    BTW, this is only my opinion.
    So what is preventing LCW from "only needs to stay focused and to stay confident to win his matches."

    And if "LCW should think positive, and believe that he is the best player in the world." were all that was required, many other lesser players would have taken the Chinese team to the cleaners.

    Now, we come to this: "we somehow feel that LCW is thinking that he not is the best player in the world. And this is the reason why LCW feels so insecure." Could it be because he also feels there is more than just a grain of truth in it?

    You're right that LCW would not say all that I said. He would not, because he cannot. He has been conditioned. And it is that very conditioning that is now working against him.

    With all respect to the other BCers here, I've read so many posts on soothing LCW's brow, and "never mind, you are still our hero" and "OG is not important, just do your best" which is not how I believe LCW looks at it. A guy who gives his blood, sweat and tears every day for years to achieve the pinnacle of his calling does not need consolation. He needs action from his team; he needs real help. He's not getting that; not enough here at BC, and certainly not enough from BAM.

    My thinking tells me a very simple thing: remaining in a state of denial is not the need of the hour.

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