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  1. #7175
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    I think Lin Dan surprised Lee Chong Wei with his play at OG 2008. LCW probably did not expect LD to go 'all out' from the start. But what is a bit surprising to me, was that LCW did not recompose during the break and did not have an alternative counter plan.

    I agree that Tang Xinfu was heavily involved and probably the master strategist behind it. But what does this tells us about his philosophy, his training methods and how he changed Lin Dan's perspective?

    The tactics displayed at OG 2008 match was a one time only. LD did not repeat that dominance and LCW also able to beat LD a few times after that. So, from your perspective, what was the change in Lin Dan's technique that enabled him to convey out the tactical gameplan when playing LCW in OG 2008? What were Tang Xinfu's training methods that changed LD's playing behaviour?



    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    BTW, at the 2008 Beijing Olympics, why had Lin Dan performed so well against LCW? It's because Tang Xianfu reminded Lin Dan what to expect from the replies from LCW after certain stokes.

    How do I know? After knowing Tang Xianfu's philosophy, I can only guess what he had told Lin Dan before the match. And also how he had trained Lin Dan at the 2008 OG (in anticipation for him to face LCW at the Finals).
    .
    Last edited by viver; 12-30-2011 at 04:59 PM.

  2. #7176
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    Quote Originally Posted by viver View Post
    I think Lin Dan surprised Lee Chong Wei with his play at OG 2008. LCW probably did not expect LD to go 'all out' from the start. But what is a bit surprising to me, was that LCW did not recompose during the break and did not have an alternative counter plan.

    I agree that Tang Xinfu was heavily involved and probably the master strategist behind it. But what does this tells us about his philosophy, his training methods and how he changed Lin Dan's perspective?

    The tactics displayed at OG 2008 match was a one time only. LD did not repeat that dominance and LCW also able to beat LD a few times after that. So, from your perspective, what was the change in Lin Dan's technique that enabled him to convey out the tactical gameplan when playing LCW in OG 2008? What were Tang Xinfu's training methods that changed LD's playing behaviour?
    LCW post-game interview, LCW said he had no clue how to play LD, LCW looked at MS hopelessly. LD was too fast, his reflex and anticipation of where the bird land was amazing, and you can see Thing controling LD emotion guiding him to stay focus until the last point was won. That probably tells us why 'LCW did not recompose during the break and did not have an alternative counter plan' cos there was none.
    LD was lean, very fit and muscle with no fat in OLY08 final, after OLY08 LD basically took a sabbatical even losing to Choi EAG and basically not played much. With OLY12 closing in, you can see LD in the last 3 encounter with LCW was looking fit, fast and lean, looking very much like the LD in OLY08, that to me means LD is peaking up for OLY12 and the majors along the way.
    Chris said 'Tang Xianfu reminded Lin Dan what to expect from the replies from LCW after certain stokes', IMO, LD played a game plan that simply outplayed LCW with LCW no clue how to respond.
    Now, which LD will show up in OLY12? LD was 4 years older in OLY12, I say LD in OLY08 was LD best performance as a baddy player, to exceed or equal that feat, I would say not possible, but looking at LD played recently against LCW/CL, his face is lean, his stamina and speed are back, the smashing power still there, and considering that LCW is also 4 years older as well, that 2nd gold is looking good.

  3. #7177
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    OneToughBirdie,
    Wish you a good year in 2012, improvements in badminton and all other aspects that matters, especially health.

    I agree with all that you said and I also read LCW's post OG 2008 match interview. As for Tang Xinfu's role, was he there only to control LD's emotions and provide indications on court positioning? If that's the case, what are Tang Xinfu's training methodologies and game philosophy? No improvements in LD's technical aspects after being trained by Tang Xinfu?


    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    LCW post-game interview, LCW said he had no clue how to play LD, LCW looked at MS hopelessly. LD was too fast, his reflex and anticipation of where the bird land was amazing, and you can see Thing controling LD emotion guiding him to stay focus until the last point was won. That probably tells us why 'LCW did not recompose during the break and did not have an alternative counter plan' cos there was none.
    LD was lean, very fit and muscle with no fat in OLY08 final, after OLY08 LD basically took a sabbatical even losing to Choi EAG and basically not played much. With OLY12 closing in, you can see LD in the last 3 encounter with LCW was looking fit, fast and lean, looking very much like the LD in OLY08, that to me means LD is peaking up for OLY12 and the majors along the way.
    Chris said 'Tang Xianfu reminded Lin Dan what to expect from the replies from LCW after certain stokes', IMO, LD played a game plan that simply outplayed LCW with LCW no clue how to respond.
    Now, which LD will show up in OLY12? LD was 4 years older in OLY12, I say LD in OLY08 was LD best performance as a baddy player, to exceed or equal that feat, I would say not possible, but looking at LD played recently against LCW/CL, his face is lean, his stamina and speed are back, the smashing power still there, and considering that LCW is also 4 years older as well, that 2nd gold is looking good.

  4. #7178
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Hey, happy new year to all people here at Badminton Central!

  5. #7179
    Regular Member nokh88's Avatar
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    Happy New Year to all in BadCentral. May your idols achieve Olympic gold in 2012 (not at the expense of my idol, hehe) and most importantly good health for many many years to come.

  6. #7180
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    I like to think not everything is lost for LCW.

    Remember he managed to beat both CL and LD in AE 2011, albeit 9 months ago. I don't have the video to take another good look but someone here may be able to analyze his game to highlight his strengths then over his two CHN rivals.

    Was LCW faster, his strokes sharper, his smashes more telling than now. Was he more confident and more focused?

    Or after their defeats, the CHN coaches looked deeper into the reasons why and came out with a better strategy to counter LCW. Now it is unlikely that Tang XF was involved in such discussions or feedback. He has long retired and out of the scene, unlike in Beijing Olympics 2008.

    With his win in AE 2011, LCW showed he was technically and mentally superior than both CL and LD, even without coach MS. Does it mean that LCW is completely useless in the nine months that followed?

    Of course not! For he still maintained his WR1 position until this day.

    So both LCW and LD are now without their mentors to guide them and act as inspirations.
    What LCW needs to do is to replay his two AE victories and visualize his moments of triump over LD and how he was able to beat him into submission. And meanwhile to brush up his fitness, both physical and mental and his strokes.

    Having seen how LD was transformed in the presence of his master Tang XF during the Thomas Cup in Jakarta, during which we BCers who gathered there had so much fun together, and read reports of coaches, I would say that the mental strength which provides the confidence to win and that extra ingredient to stay on and fight to the end, surpasses them
    all.

    LCW has a chance to take the Olympic title just as LD has.

    HAPPY NEW YEAR everybody!

  7. #7181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    With his win in AE 2011, LCW showed he was technically and mentally superior than both CL and LD, even without coach MS.
    There is always two players in singles, and to say someone is superior beceause of one-match win is really stretching it.. In AE2011, we don't know the form of LD, and he did play back-to-back German Open week before AE. So it's not only what form and play LCW put up, it is of course also a matter of the form, shape and motivation of his opponents.

    Anyone realize that CL has improved the level he is at now compared to his level in early 2011. So things can and will change..

    LCW certainly has a chance of winning olympic gold. But with the statistics of 8-18 in head-to-head and also never been able to beat LD two times in a row. the odds seems stacked in LDs favor.

  8. #7182
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    There is always two players in singles, and to say someone is superior beceause of one-match win is really stretching it.. In AE2011, we don't know the form of LD, and he did play back-to-back German Open week before AE. So it's not only what form and play LCW put up, it is of course also a matter of the form, shape and motivation of his opponents.

    Anyone realize that CL has improved the level he is at now compared to his level in early 2011. So things can and will change..

    LCW certainly has a chance of winning olympic gold. But with the statistics of 8-18 in head-to-head and also never been able to beat LD two times in a row. the odds seems stacked in LDs favor.
    i think head to head is not 8-18 for LD, but 8-21 for LD.
    8-18 from bwf website. 1 match in asian games final 2010 won by LD, 1 match from hongkong open 2006 won by LD, 1 match from "four kings match" won by LD in china this year. CMIIW

  9. #7183
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    Quote Originally Posted by iqbaljuve View Post
    i think head to head is not 8-18 for LD, but 8-21 for LD.
    8-18 from bwf website. 1 match in asian games final 2010 won by LD, 1 match from hongkong open 2006 won by LD, 1 match from "four kings match" won by LD in china this year. CMIIW
    people lost hope with LCW for two reasons:

    1. He had never won a big title... ie, OG, WC, AsianGames, ThomasCup and SudirmanCup... All England is arguably only the sixth most important tourney now... Some would argue that since the start of 2011, Korean Open and PSS Finals are more important than AE...

    2. He lost to LD in the crucial finals of OG2008, WC2011, AG2010, TC2010...

  10. #7184
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    people lost hope with LCW for two reasons:

    1. He had never won a big title... ie, OG, WC, AsianGames, ThomasCup and SudirmanCup... All England is arguably only the sixth most important tourney now... Some would argue that since the start of 2011, Korean Open and PSS Finals are more important than AE...

    2. He lost to LD in the crucial finals of OG2008, WC2011, AG2010, TC2010...
    1.Thomas Cup/Uber Cup/Sudirman Cup doesn't count as a major title. It's a TEAM event, and it is the major title for the TEAM. With the hopeless MAS squad, compare to CHN, almost impossible for any other country to have this 'major event/big title' then.

    2. I would rate it like this : OG > WC > AG > AE > PSS > SS, Only the top 4 are 'majors'
    I love it how everyone said that AE is a major title before 2010 AE where LCW won, and after that the same people suddenly decided that AE is another small tournament. The AE is considered a major tournament because of the prestige in it, not because of the prize money or because it is a PSS. AE, IMO is the 4th most important tourney, more important than even Korean Open.

    This way, I would say LCW has won a mere 2 titles compared to LD's 11(?)!

  11. #7185
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    Only OG and AG is 4 years once? The rest I wouldn't consider a major. AG doesn't involve 'other non asians' thus I don't consider it as a major.

    So, this left OG for me. So, the result is not much diff for most players. Only 1-0 or 1-1 for most. lol.

    Or either it can be said as, either you have it or you don't.

  12. #7186
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    That is the reason why we'd love to hear more details about Tang Xinfu's training methodologies and philosophy in badminton. Patiently awaiting Chris's comments on this.

    I am looking forward for more exciting games between LCW, LD and CL. It will be interesting to watch CL's improvements and LCW tactical adjustments to counter them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Having seen how LD was transformed in the presence of his master Tang XF during the Thomas Cup in Jakarta, during which we BCers who gathered there had so much fun together, and read reports of coaches, I would say that the mental strength which provides the confidence to win and that extra ingredient to stay on and fight to the end, surpasses them
    all.

    LCW has a chance to take the Olympic title just as LD has.

    HAPPY NEW YEAR everybody!

  13. #7187
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    To me, now in 2012, only OG is considered major as it happens only every four years. It has evolved over the years. In the early years it was AE, then WC which was held every 3 years, I think, but now, other than OG most tournaments are held every year and has been downgraded. Maybe BWF should categorize which title is a major like in tennis where they have the 4 Grand Slams and I don't think tennis players consider the OG as a major.

  14. #7188
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    Another negative about OG is it's restriction on entries. Most countries can submit a maximum of 2 players or pairs if they are in the world top 16.

    In singles, a player may be WR 4, but if your three teammates are ahead of you, too bad you will not have a chance to participate. So competition is restricted.

    The aims of the Olympics, unlike the SS, are different.

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    OG should have only 1 to participate from 1 country. Give chance to other countries to participate. The rest of the tournaments are open to as many as you want. So, a change is good.

  16. #7190
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    Arrow I suppose we are talking about major tournaments for players

    Quote Originally Posted by nokh88 View Post
    To me, now in 2012, only OG is considered major as it happens only every four years. It has evolved over the years. In the early years it was AE, then WC which was held every 3 years, I think, but now, other than OG most tournaments are held every year and has been downgraded. Maybe BWF should categorize which title is a major like in tennis where they have the 4 Grand Slams and I don't think tennis players consider the OG as a major.
    .
    I suppose we are talking about major tournaments for players, and not for teams.

    My suggestion to BWF would be; Let's look through the records of past tournaments. Consider those as majors when:

    * They are organised for individual participants, not for teams.
    * They are able to attract a higher percentage of top world-ranking players to participate.

    Why? Because I find that:

    * Players in tournaments giving many walk-overs (by teammates to teammates) do not support how major the tournaments should be.
    * Players in tournaments selected by their teams' coach/management (to play or to rest) do not support their individual players' abilities, but their teams' abilities.

    After saying the above, it is really up to players and coaches to unite and to decide what tournaments are considered major. As soon as they think for team abilities (and not for individual abilities), then I would think that the tournaments should not be regarded as major tournaments for players.

    BTW, it has already been established by players and coaches that all the inter-nations CUPS (namely the Thomas, Uber and Sudirman Cups) are our inter-nations majors.

    We are now requiring to find our individual's and/or our players' majors.
    .

  17. #7191
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    All the best to Lee chong wei in both the korea and malaysia open 2012

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