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  1. #7634
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    Let s compare. How many 3+ year term WR1 are there? How many OG champions are there?

  2. #7635
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Of course, LCW is trying his hardest to do his best for Malaysia

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanY View Post
    I'm sure it isn't just dollars he is thinking about, what about honor for the motherland?
    .
    Of course, LCW is trying his hardest to do his best for Malaysia.

    But he needs to do his best for himself first.

    If he cannot do the best for himself, then how can he do any good for Malaysia?
    .

  3. #7636
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanY View Post
    I'm sure it isn't just dollars he is thinking about, what about honor for the motherland?
    Of course honor for motherland important, in fact very important. Why you think he kisses the Msian flag each time he wins, and so despondent each time he didnt win major title. 1st thing he said, sorry for letting the nation down.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    That means that staying at World No.1 for 4 or 8 months is producing better financial rewards than winning the WC title for LCW, isn't it?
    .
    When it was Proton, 1 full year. Chris, remember the Proton cars LCW got? That's one of the incentives from Proton. BAM also got incentive for World Ranking. Other sponsors, it was not revealed whether got or not. Now with Maybank, dunno, next year we will know
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 03-13-2012 at 11:00 AM.

  4. #7637
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    if lcw won the OG gold in 2008
    he already retired in 2009
    he said
    if he won wc earlier
    he will also retired earlier
    he said
    so depend if u want to see him more or u want him to win and retired from badminton soon
    If he have had won OG/WC earlier and retired ealier, then he (and LD) won't be the subject to talk about for such a long time. When do we ever discuss/talk about a retired OG/WC winner that frequent? Alan Budi Kusuma? Rexy/Ricky etc? I think we have already partially forgotten them all No media exposure, u think the fans will still remember them meh? It's the same effect for those Holywood star......famous singer etc lah

    Also, he not retired earlier means the younger generation got the chance to watch him play hence more people/different generation would remember him. So, it's wise to expose yourself longer and often to keep you fresh......good marketing (Else I bet won't be that many people buying his book lah)

  5. #7638
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    Put it this way : WC & OG not easy to get. So achieve whatever can be achieved, which is... maintain WR#1 & get some $$$$ from the sponsors. If remember correctly, reporters did ask LD before whether he is aiming for WR#1 ranking, LD jokingly answer if sponsors got pay $$$, he might consider(or something along those lines).

    If can, of course better get both : monies from WR#1 AND OG gold(RM1 million & RM5K monthly pension). WC title is less $$$ than maintaining WR#1 I think : either RM20K or RM40K for the WC champ

    Ya la, of course better can get both. But real life isn't that perfect, you win some, you lose some. Can win some is better than nothing......unlike some other players, no money, no ranking, no good health (due to injury), no fame (people may forget them as soon as they retired)

  6. #7639
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Both LCW and LD have their own greatness (because of these 2 points);

    (1) LCW is World No.1 continuously for the last 4 years.

    (2) LD has won more major tournaments than LCW in the last 4 years.

    It's up to us to ask which is better - Staying as World No.1 or winning in more major tournaments.

    Our debate will never end.

    It is because I also follow other sports; like Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Swimming, etc, etc, ...... , I do think that one being World No.1 is better than one being able to win in more major tournaments.

    But, this debate will never end.
    .
    World no.1 is a big achievement but at least in tennis, the thing people remember the most is how many Major tournaments one has won.

    I really hope LCW wins the OG this year, as a means to further justify his greatness and display it on the biggest stage to prove that his badminton is better than anybody elses when it truly counts. Lin Dan has proved that more often than LCW throughout his whole career. LCW's 4 YE no.1's is very impressive and worthy of very high praise indeed, but some will disregard him as a true great of the game unless he can win a couple more huge major championships. I don't think the same would be said the other way around - being no.1 for some years but winning only a few majors. If the world no.1 is not winning the most big champs then it somewhat devalues the no.1 status, in my opinion.

  7. #7640
    Regular Member volcom's Avatar
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    Being number one doesnt dissipate the mental pain subsiding within him knowing he cannot beat his greatest nemesis one the biggest stages, the psychological implications of those losses even though he trains harder than anyone else must be one of the most unbearable things.Taufik won so many majors even though he wasnt wr1 and he didnt need to be.It is more rewarding to go into majors with low rankings but consistently win them so they can rub it into the wr1's, media detractors etc.Im pretty sure financially hes doing as well if not better than lcw even though he is not wr1.

    In the end fans of other sports would be interested to know what are the majors in badminton and who has won them. Just like tennis for most of us, we are not going to care nor remember who won some dubai masters unless we follow it hard... We want to know who won the french open etc... Or like in cycling, who won tour de france.... Swimming who won the WC or olympics....
    Last edited by volcom; 03-14-2012 at 06:47 PM.

  8. #7641
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    I'm impressed with LCW's performance in AE2012 Finals against LD

    He's injured and never smash hard... he played more with control shots but still end the first game 19-21. He's really good that he can survive without smashing hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathaniel_Near View Post
    World no.1 is a big achievement but at least in tennis, the thing people remember the most is how many Major tournaments one has won.

    I really hope LCW wins the OG this year, as a means to further justify his greatness and display it on the biggest stage to prove that his badminton is better than anybody elses when it truly counts. Lin Dan has proved that more often than LCW throughout his whole career. LCW's 4 YE no.1's is very impressive and worthy of very high praise indeed, but some will disregard him as a true great of the game unless he can win a couple more huge major championships. I don't think the same would be said the other way around - being no.1 for some years but winning only a few majors. If the world no.1 is not winning the most big champs then it somewhat devalues the no.1 status, in my opinion.
    I think that was what the Premier Super Series was designed to do, i.e. to be the Grand Slam in badminton. Over time these will gain more prestige. Likewise it would be hard for me to name the winners for tennis in the Olympics since most people only remember Grand Slam winners at the Wimbledon or French Open, etc. At some point in the future discussion of what is "major" and what is not will become a moot point. Lendl never won Wimbledon, for instance, but he is still considered one of the all time greats with numerous wins at the French, Australian, and US Opens. At the end of the day history will speak for itself and I think anyone of the Big Four can be called great in every sense of the word in the Open era of badminton.

  10. #7643
    Regular Member volcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerQT View Post
    I'm impressed with LCW's performance in AE2012 Finals against LD

    He's injured and never smash hard... he played more with control shots but still end the first game 19-21. He's really good that he can survive without smashing hard.
    Indeed LCW should revert to his old tried and true tactics of masterful technical supremacy in deft touches, slices, drops and outmanuveuring style of play that gave LD so much trouble back in the days where he was much more evenly on par with LD.

    It's all good that he can use his speed and power to overwhelm lesser opponents, but it just showed what a bit of guile, calmness and strategy can do to LD during the AE finals.

    Just look back at those tournaments pre 2008 where he gave LD so much trouble such as AE06 the HKopen etc.... his technical ability allowed him to exert far less energy and stress on his body than he's doing today which is severely wearing him out.

  11. #7644
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    what is meant by Open Era in badminton? when did it begin?
    Last edited by pcll99; 03-15-2012 at 12:22 AM.

  12. #7645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltric View Post
    I think that was what the Premier Super Series was designed to do, i.e. to be the Grand Slam in badminton. Over time these will gain more prestige. Likewise it would be hard for me to name the winners for tennis in the Olympics since most people only remember Grand Slam winners at the Wimbledon or French Open, etc. At some point in the future discussion of what is "major" and what is not will become a moot point. Lendl never won Wimbledon, for instance, but he is still considered one of the all time greats with numerous wins at the French, Australian, and US Opens. At the end of the day history will speak for itself and I think anyone of the Big Four can be called great in every sense of the word in the Open era of badminton.
    But this doesn't work. They are clearly an elite series of tournaments that are setup but obviously pale in significance and comparison to WC, OG and probably even AE as an individual event due to prestige and history. They don't come across at all as 'Grand Slam' equivalents. Badminton already has its own format of most important badminton events which count as very major championships, such as I have already mentioned - OG, WC, maybe AE, maybe Asian Games.

    As for Lendl, of course he's considered an all time great even though he never won Wimbledon, as he won 8 Slams and reached 11 other finals as well as winning Year-end Championship renditions 7 times. In tennis, the Slams win and in badminton the aforementioned win.

    This would give Lin Dan 10 - 11 elite major MS victories and LCW 2 (2 AE).

    Badminton recently has a year-end championship which is potentially a supremely elite tournament due to the selectivity and quality of the entrants, but it seems to not have quite lifted off yet.

    I agree that all 4 can be considered greats in the Open Era. LCW being world no.1 for 4 years is a MASSIVE achievement.

  13. #7646
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    Quote Originally Posted by volcom View Post
    Indeed LCW should revert to his old tried and true tactics of masterful technical supremacy in deft touches, slices, drops and outmanuveuring style of play that gave LD so much trouble back in the days where he was much more evenly on par with LD.

    It's all good that he can use his speed and power to overwhelm lesser opponents, but it just showed what a bit of guile, calmness and strategy can do to LD during the AE finals.

    Just look back at those tournaments pre 2008 where he gave LD so much trouble such as AE06 the HKopen etc.... his technical ability allowed him to exert far less energy and stress on his body than he's doing today which is severely wearing him out.
    I believe he can win match against any player even LD... provided LCW use the right tools not just using "Brute" or "Z" Force because LD can match his power.

    Could it be LCW just testing the water against LD during AE2012 Finals? hmmm...

  14. #7647
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    if LCW has this ability to plan, rationalise and prestrategize like this, than i say his badminton iq has also increased by leaps and bounds and he would be scary by the time olympics come around

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerQT View Post
    I believe he can win match against any player even LD... provided LCW use the right tools not just using "Brute" or "Z" Force because LD can match his power.

    Could it be LCW just testing the water against LD during AE2012 Finals? hmmm...

  15. #7648
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Default "Open, Modern Era" in badminton

    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    what is meant by Open Era in badminton? when did it begin?

    I would consider the "Open Era" in badminton as the period when the All-England, then the unofficial world championships, was "open" to players from all over the world.

    The AE was initiated by England as a "closed" tournament and British MS players, principally from England and Ireland, dominated from its inception since 1900 to 1937. Please refer to the following list:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...gles_champions

    In 1938 Jesper Bie of Denmark was MS runner-up and countryman, Tage Madsen took the MS title in 1939.

    The "Open Era" came soon after World War II in 1947
    when the AE was resumed after a long war-related break from 1940-46. Prakash Nath of India took the MS silver medal in 1947.

    The AE turned international and the floodgates then opened for Asian players to dominate the scene.

    In 1949, American neurosurgeon, Dave Freeman, shocked the then Malayans, who won the first edition of the Thomas Cup, when he easily beat Ooi Teik Hock 15-1, 15-6 to become the only American to take the MS title. But thereafter the Malayans, who were well-represented by Wong Peng Soon (4 titles) from Singapore and Eddy Choong (4) from Penang, defeated all opposition from 1950-57.

    The Danes then took over the mantle from 1958 when Erland Kops was the undisputed champion who won 7 times, despite the strong challenge from Indonesia, Malaysia, Japan and Thailand.

    In 1968, the great Rudy Hartono of Indonesia made his international mark by becoming the AE champ when he was still a teenager I believe. Only compatriot Tan Joe Hok preceded him in 1959. Rudy went on to win consecutively till 1974 and again in 1976 against teammate Liem Swie King. His nine-year run was only broken in 1975 when Svend Pri of Denmark defeated him.

    Rudy's eight AE titles in this "Open Era" is still a record, although some have argued that Lin Dan's recent AE win to make it five so far for him, is better.

    Some have also said that Rudy's period belongs to the "Stone Age" which I differ. If ever there is a Stone Age in badminton it should belong to the "closed door" period when the AE first started and remained closed for Europeans and Americans only and where the equipment was rudimentary.

    Rudy's era can also be considered the "Modern Era" as well when the "power game" was more dominant than the more defensive "cat-and-mouse" strategy. The big attacking smash was very much in Rudy's armoury to be further enhanced by compatriot Liem Swie King later. And the equipment was modified to suit the power game better.

    The one noticeable thing missing during Rudy's reign was the absence of China's participation because of politics. But China, during that time was perhaps not as dominant as they are today. Famous names such as "The Thing" and his Chinese counterparts who emigrated to China from Indonesia because of politics again, were older than Rudy and had limited exposure in international badminton.

    So Rudy Hartono still stands very tall in modern world badminton.
    Last edited by Loh; 03-15-2012 at 11:53 PM.

  16. #7649
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  17. #7650
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    I agree, LCW cant beat LD physically. He has to beat him at his own game. Li Mao moved his physical ability to another level, but he just needs to maintain this.

    He should improve his strokeplay and tactics, then he can beat LD.

    When LD puts top gear into play no one can match his speed. LCW needs to slow him down and frustrate LD into errors. No easy task given LDs strong mentality.

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