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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurker

    have you tried shooting badminton with such a setup and have images to show with? It is easy enough to talk theory but pratical is where one would see the results of the theory. My original question is about shooting badminton - high speed action on difficult lighting conditions. Very specific situation.
    Yes, I have shot still photographs of indoor badminton matches as well as video taped them, always with a tripod. I have been in still photography since 1957, in cine movie since 1968 and in video recording since 1985. But sometime about 10 years ago I lost interest in photography and I am now having trouble sorting out all my camera gear, darkroom equipment, close-up and copying work and lighting equipment, tons and tons of photos and colour slides, super 8 movies (almost 500 reels), early Sony video 8, projectors, a large silver screen, at least 10 or more tripods, monopods, tablepods, what-have you. Also, I find it a nightmare to even do a search of all my photos, negatives, slides, movies, which are being packed away by my family.
    Lighting conditions in badminton halls where open championships are played are not that difficult. I would not consider such conditions extreme.
    If you think it useful, I can suggest some tricks, like how to tilt, pan, move around, how to guestimate degree of potential blur with different focal length and aperture. etc. that you may find useful in taking pictures in a badminton hall.

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    . Most people do not know how to handhold a camera properly and very few understand the principle of employing opposing forces when holding a camera. This further compounds the problem.
    Yes, if you can't handhold a camera properly, i guess you have no choice but to use a tripod. I guess if you are old and your hands shake a lot.... maybe you shouldn't even bother to take such demanding photographs anymore... just restrict yourself to taking still life in photo studios and leave badminton photography to those who can rather than cluttering a badminton hall with equipment like tripods.

    Fortunately I can hold a camera properly so I have no need for a tripod for indoor badminton photography.

    As an interested photographer who visits photo forums, i notice there are always a few who 'talk big' about photo techniques, but when their photo portfolios are revealed, one wonders whether they possess the techniques they talk a lot about. Of course there are different types:
    (1) People who are lousy photographers who like to act like they are experts in the field
    (2) People who can take a decent photograph of a flower, and assume that this qualifies them to talk authoritatively about a completely different type of photograph like indoor sports photography even though they've never even tried it themselves.

  3. #20
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by storkbill

    As an interested photographer who visits photo forums, i notice there are always a few who 'talk big' about photo techniques, but when their photo portfolios are revealed, one wonders whether they possess the techniques they talk a lot about. Of course there are different types:
    (1) People who are lousy photographers who like to act like they are experts in the field
    (2) People who can take a decent photograph of a flower, and assume that this qualifies them to talk authoritatively about a completely different type of photograph like indoor sports photography even though they've never even tried it themselves.
    i agree. and those are the types who never have any photos to show and would come up with blatantly wrong suggestions like using a tripod and shoot badminton at 1/60sec shutter.

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurker

    Besides, your "A tripod, if properly used, will enable you to use a smaller aperture by two stops, giving you increased depth of field for sharper pictures." and "Taking action pictures with the subject in sharp focus and everything behind out of focus will be a breeze with a tripod's pan and tilt."
    sentences contradicts each other.

    Let us discuss the above more because it could be interesting, besides asking for credentials. The above could touch on one of the most dramatic way of capturing a sports scene.

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    Let us discuss the above more because it could be interesting, besides asking for credentials. The above could touch on one of the most dramatic way of capturing a sports scene.
    Lurker has said that your proposed technique is a contradiction. Since you must have taken many photographs using this technique, why not post your pictures to illustrate the technique in action? With these pictures, surely the discussion will be more fruitful?

    When I say I take photographs in a particular way, I have actual photographs that illustrate the technique I am telling others about. If you have not even taken any photographs using a technique you are telling others to adopt, why should we take it on faith that it will even work since you haven't even tried it yourself?

    And no, telling me that this technique works when photographing still life in a studio doesn't lead me to believe that it will work for badminton photography.

    To put it in badminton terms, I wouldn't want to learn badminton from a coach who can give me lots of wonderful theory, but when I ask him to demonstrate to me the stroke or movement, he can't do it
    Last edited by storkbill; 01-24-2007 at 06:50 PM.

  6. #23
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Default something beyond wb!

    surge great! but you should have started it earlier!
    here comes my example. that pic was shot at 1/320 sec during the hk hko06 and it was cropped from my original.
    i just want you guys to pay attention to 3 different parts of that pic. jiang's face, the shuttle and the fedex logo.
    what's gonna happen if 1/60 sec was used instead of 1/320 sec? will a strong tripod be helpful in that case? will a smooth panning and tilting technique useful?
    the shuttle looks blurry. only focus/dof problem? no! in fact they were all moving at 1/320 sec!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #24
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    Nice capture Red. Jiang's eyes totally focusing on the shuttle, very very nice. Just wish I were able to get shots like these.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun
    i agree. and those are the types who never have any photos to show and would come up with blatantly wrong suggestions like using a tripod and shoot badminton at 1/60sec shutter.
    Hehe, wondering why you were not so worked-up about similar badminton theories/suggestions ...

  9. #26
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Default movement at 1/320 sec again

    Quote Originally Posted by viver
    Nice capture Red. Jiang's eyes totally focusing on the shuttle, very very nice. Just wish I were able to get shots like these.
    thanks viver! u will be able to get that kinda shots for sure. just keep on practicing.
    i m clearing up my portable hd at the moment. at the same time i m trying to find some images which might be useful here.
    here is one more. see how a shuttle moves within 1/320 sec. shutter speed of 1/320 sec means nothing to sports photography somehow.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #27
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    Smile

    Hi, I am a super new member of this forum and I happened to have read pretty much all the posts on this thread. I don't know any of you so my opinion here comes without any bias. I see merit in many of your posts, and don't think we can really dismiss any one's opinion as "wrong" until it has been objectively tried and tested. I think there are certainly a lot of photographic techniques that one can learn better starting out with film, but there are also nuances with digital photography that may take film photographers a little getting used to. I enjoy badminton and photography, and would call myself a beginner in comparison to most, so I will try to play some games and shoot some pics this weekend. Not gonna promise any results yet, but if I do have any I"ll try to share here. Peace to all~

  11. #28
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ski2010
    Hi, I am a super new member of this forum and I happened to have read pretty much all the posts on this thread. I don't know any of you so my opinion here comes without any bias. I see merit in many of your posts, and don't think we can really dismiss any one's opinion as "wrong" until it has been objectively tried and tested. I think there are certainly a lot of photographic techniques that one can learn better starting out with film, but there are also nuances with digital photography that may take film photographers a little getting used to. I enjoy badminton and photography, and would call myself a beginner in comparison to most, so I will try to play some games and shoot some pics this weekend. Not gonna promise any results yet, but if I do have any I"ll try to share here. Peace to all~
    on some topics. you are right there won't be an absolute right or wrong. but i just couldn't agree to taneepak's opinion about using a tripod and 1/60 sec for taking action badminton photos! no matter what camera you use. it wasn't sensible at all!
    everyone knows boiling water is hot and we don't need to check it with our fingers! do we?
    just curious. why are u interested in this thread in particular?
    nevertheless, I think everyone is in peace!
    Last edited by red00ecstrat; 01-25-2007 at 05:41 AM.

  12. #29
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    i like your shots!!! the close up view is just superb!!! i have tried shooting at 1/60....can only make it when they were serving. once the rally starts 1/60 is just to slow. 1/125 i think is the bare minimum... 1/250 is ideal. but when smashing, i think even 1/250 you cant freeze the hand movement.

  13. #30
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    aperture: f/2.8
    iso: 1600
    focal length: 200mm (guess: 1554mm in 35mm)
    exposure time: 0.001s (1/1000)

  14. #31
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    btw, moderators, any chance that our little dicussion have gone OT? can always split the topic

  15. #32
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    Sure Thanks for the reminder

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    Taneepak, do you mean that if one uses a slow shutter speed and then pan to track the target one can end up with the subject in sharp focus and the background blurred? If so I have to agree although I have doubts about any moving object being in 'sharp focus'

    However, I can't imagine that this panning technique can be used in Badminton because you're not dealing with consistent movement (ie if a person is reaching forward their head is travelling at a different speed than their legs etc). I've tried to paste in a picture but it won't work! Imagine a bird flying through the sky, if you could track the bird (its a possibility given that the bird is travelling at a constant speed) the bird would only be slightly blurry but the background would be very blurry given the panning motion.

    If I may, I'd like to say that we should consider whether blurred pictures have merit in themselves. A sharp picture of an athlete doesn't convey an impression of speed or power, but one that is slightly blurred might have more artistic merit and convery more of a 'feeling' of speed etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by crosscourt
    Taneepak, do you mean that if one uses a slow shutter speed and then pan to track the target one can end up with the subject in sharp focus and the background blurred? If so I have to agree although I have doubts about any moving object being in 'sharp focus'

    However, I can't imagine that this panning technique can be used in Badminton because you're not dealing with consistent movement (ie if a person is reaching forward their head is travelling at a different speed than their legs etc). I've tried to paste in a picture but it won't work! Imagine a bird flying through the sky, if you could track the bird (its a possibility given that the bird is travelling at a constant speed) the bird would only be slightly blurry but the background would be very blurry given the panning motion.

    If I may, I'd like to say that we should consider whether blurred pictures have merit in themselves. A sharp picture of an athlete doesn't convey an impression of speed or power, but one that is slightly blurred might have more artistic merit and convery more of a 'feeling' of speed etc
    i can imagine pictures like this


    and i can also imagine how much usable pic one can get on an entire night shooting badminton

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