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  1. #35
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurker
    i can imagine pictures like this


    and i can also imagine how much usable pic one can get on an entire night shooting badminton
    nah. i think taneepak is promising us a slow shutter technique for action photos that will give us tack sharp pic that is distinguishable when magnified 300 times.

  2. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak
    I may sound like an old record, but it is my humble opinion that a solid and steady tripod is indispensable to sports photography, especially badminton photography. Even with a steady tripod all lenses must be no slower than f/2.8 for zooms and f/1.8 for primes. How can you take consistent badminton photography with slow zoom lenses of f/3.8 and slower hand-held? Hand-holding a slr is equivalent to losing two stops. Just try this : take a picture in a badminton hall at f/2.8 hand-held and take the same or a similar picture at the same f/2.8 with the camera on a solid and steady tripod using a cable release. Enlarge the two pictures 300 times and you can see the difference.
    You can see in soccer matches professional photographer using expensive and fast long telephoto lenses mounted on solid tripods. You can also see even more amateurs among the crowd using hand-held cameras. I am sure they don't produce comparable pictures. If so the amateurs among the crowd probably know something the professionals have never learned.
    I see you have used the above to start a new thread, which I might say is more appropriate.
    I will start off about the use of the tripod. I am used to tripods, tablepods, chestpods, monopods, maybe because in my old days I found it more synergy in cine and still photography. Sure they are one more piece of equipment to carry around. If you are talking about badminton halls and if you want to be more mobile, some photographers prefer not to use a tripod. That is up to the photographer. Some photographers would not be seen dead with a tripod. But you can get a small tablepod like the Leitz table stand. It has a small tripod weighing only 186g and a head weighing 156g, very solidly built, which you can convert to a chestpod. A chestpod is a small tripod where the 3 legs of the tripod are supported against your chest. It also uses the principle of using opposing forces for stability. If you are near a wall or a table it can also be used. If you are an ardent tripodless man then by all means use your legs, face, hands, fingers, and the camera strap (which must be tensioned around the shoulder) can all help.
    Next, a related topic, is about pictorial unsharpness and creative blur, and the equipment and techniques that we can use. This area will be very interesting and will apply whether you are from the old school or from the new school.
    Let us hear what others have to say. Later, I will give my own opinions about pictorial unsharpness and creative blur, and the techniques or choice of equipment which I have picked up many moons ago and see if they still sound foolish today. I would like to believe that nothing has changed.

  3. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by red00ecstrat
    surge great! but you should have started it earlier!
    here comes my example. that pic was shot at 1/320 sec during the hk hko06 and it was cropped from my original.
    i just want you guys to pay attention to 3 different parts of that pic. jiang's face, the shuttle and the fedex logo.
    what's gonna happen if 1/60 sec was used instead of 1/320 sec? will a strong tripod be helpful in that case? will a smooth panning and tilting technique useful?
    the shuttle looks blurry. only focus/dof problem? no! in fact they were all moving at 1/320 sec!
    I must say the picture is good. It could be much better if you had used a tripod and not resort to cropping but instead change the perspective but keep the same image size, aperture, and shuttle speed, by using a longer focus lens and going back a little. A change of perspective by moving back and using a longer focus lens, whilst still having the same image size and yes, the same depth of field, the picture will give a more three dimentional effect.
    However, if you are stuck in one position then there is not much you can do, because using different focal length lenses alone will not change the perspective. Also, you must know that cropping makes the picture less sharp.
    Artistically, the picture is great.

  4. #38
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    i cropped it because i wanna emphasis those three parts that i mentioned in my post.
    thanks for your admiration.

  5. #39
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    here are 3 shots i took at different shutter speeds.

    candra wijaya, 1/320s.


    lee jae jin, 1/400s.


    gao ling, 1/500s.


    at 1/320s it was pretty difficult to get good shots, but i like the effect it gives. by trial and error, i found that 1/320s is a better comprimise between sharpness and showing movement than 1/500s, at least to my tastes. at 1/500s, the shuttle isn't blurry enough to give me a sense of speed.

    candra's backhand pic is my favourite of all the pics i've taken because it shows his speed. you know that the camera's shutter speed is fast because his body appears stationary, but you can appreciate how fast he is moving because his racquet is even faster than i can capture. you almost can't see the racquet, but you know it must be somewhere coz he's about to hit the shuttle. also, i love this pic coz i managed to take it in single shot mode, not continuous 3fps

  6. #40
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    for me, the successful rate of capturing a moving badminton player with 1/320 sec was around 50%. therefore, i guess the mininum safty shutter speed would probably be 1/400 sec.

  7. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Me
    here are 3 shots i took at different shutter speeds.
    IS that with your D70? Looks pretty good to me.

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurker
    i can imagine pictures like this


    and i can also imagine how much usable pic one can get on an entire night shooting badminton
    That's exactly what I meant! The panning allows for a slower shutter speed but you could never get the entire body in sharp focus because the legs, arms and body are al travelling at different speeds. There's a brilliant sense of motion though. In my opinion this would be the only way you could capture an action shot with a low shutter speed, but I have to stress I'm not a pro photographer.

    Lurker, did you take this yourself? If so, how many photos did you take and how many were usable? Given that you would need to match your panning speed to exactly match your moving target I would guess there's a very low success rate!

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    IS that with your D70? Looks pretty good to me.
    yeah they were taken with my d70. i was sitting at the edge of the court, just behind the banners. it was so close to the court that one of the mis-hit defensive shots that came off the frame went sideways and almost hit me hahahaha hopefully i can get that close again for the world championships this year

  10. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by red00ecstrat
    thanks viver! u will be able to get that kinda shots for sure. just keep on practicing.
    i m clearing up my portable hd at the moment. at the same time i m trying to find some images which might be useful here.
    here is one more. see how a shuttle moves within 1/320 sec. shutter speed of 1/320 sec means nothing to sports photography somehow.
    Thank you for your encouragement, I will keep practicing whenever time allows. I like taking photos, and of course the more I take the better I can be. However taking nice photos like the ones you have (others as well) needs an good eye and that 'sense' for timing and composition - this is harder for me.

    Your shot at 1/320 sec gives us an idea about the speed the top players can hit the shuttle. Maybe 1/60 sec is good speed for taking pictures of us amateurs playing .

  11. #45
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    I'm just wondering what's Candra's last name. Btw I like your photgraphy! I personally liked the 1/320.

  12. #46
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viver
    Your shot at 1/320 sec gives us an idea about the speed the top players can hit the shuttle. Maybe 1/60 sec is good speed for taking pictures of us amateurs playing .
    cheung said his movment can be well captured with 1/60. i will check that out next time when i see him on court!

  13. #47
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    Movement blur is caused by camera movement and subject movement. Hands that are not steady, mirror, auto-diaphgram, linkages, and other vibrations cause camera blur, which can be minimized or reduced with a tripod or a chestpod. Subject movement can be handled and tamed by selecting appropriate shuttle speed and using some sound picture taking practices. Taking pictures of players moving across your viewfinder has the greatest movement that may require a shuttle speed of 1/1000 or shorter if the image scale is frame filling. Reduce the image scale and you can reduce the shuttle speed, although some action shots that require a larger image scale may not be as satisfying. Taking a picture of the same player moving towards or away from the camera can be handled with a much lower shuttle speed. Taking it diagonally is somewhere in between. Panning is a technique of following rapid movements across the screen in the viewfinder, which effectively keeps the picture of the player at the same spot in the viewfinder as he goes across. But everything else that is not moving, relative to the player, is very 'fast' and blur and streakish, giving the picture a sense of speed.
    You can also capture the 'peak of action', where the cycle of activity has a moment where the comparative motion of the player is motionless, i.e. a jump smash. This requires some anticipation, because the time difference between the brain function and the finger reflex has a measurable delay.
    These greatly reduce the shuttle speed required to take such pictures; and with reduced shuttle speed the choice of a smaller aperture, giving a greater DOF, and the choice of a longer focus lens to give a more dramatic effect, are options you now have. Using a tripod, if you can handle it, or a chestpod, will make these options even easier.

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