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  1. #35
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    hmm, i wonder whos legs he was threatening to break, hehe

  2. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun
    i saw Yves Lacrois has this really well timed capture of LYB arguing against a call, and the referee tried to restrain him.
    [devil's advocate mode=on]
    How do we know it was well timed?
    We don't know if there was a better shot 1/10 or 3 seconds later?

    Do we assume that if there was a better shot he would have got it, and he would have published that instead?
    [devil's advocate mode=off]

  3. #37
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Nicholls
    [devil's advocate mode=on]
    How do we know it was well timed?
    We don't know if there was a better shot 1/10 or 3 seconds later?

    Do we assume that if there was a better shot he would have got it, and he would have published that instead?
    [devil's advocate mode=off]
    it is well timed becaused it looks well timed. we don't know if it is "perfectly" timed as you said because we don't know all the other possibilities...

  4. #38
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    I just wanna have more discussion on it.
    My question is that. Does a decisive moment equivalent to the best visual moment?

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by red00ecstrat
    I just wanna have more discussion on it.
    My question is that. Does a decisive moment equivalent to the best visual moment?
    What is "best" can be subjective, and may require information about the context in which the picture was taken

  6. #40
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by red00ecstrat

    but let's think it this way kwun. those lin dan pictures were acturally from an action sequence that last for around 20 seconds. if picture number 3 is counted as decisive moment then why not picture number 1 or 2? unlike the photo of eva. i m pretty sure the duration is pretty short!

    any comment on this?
    yes. HCD retired from photography and returned to painting before the motor drive was invented! (in the late 70s or early 80s, i think)

    poor him must be rolling in his grave when he finds out that we are now trying to brute force the decisive moment instead of capturing it with pure intuition and predicting the moment.

  7. #41
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by red00ecstrat
    I just wanna have more discussion on it.
    My question is that. Does a decisive moment equivalent to the best visual moment?
    i am still pondering about that one.

    the easier question to answer though, is: "is a best/good visual moment equivalent to a decisive moment?"

    and i think the answer is no. our example of a jumpsmash is one. a jumpsmash can be a very nice visually, but most of the time has little significance to it to be considered a "decisive moment"

    anyway, back to your original question. maybe we can start with HCD's pics. if we look at the pics of HCD you posted, do they have best/good visual moment?

  8. #42
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Nicholls
    What is "best" can be subjective, and may require information about the context in which the picture was taken
    let's take these pictures as an example. if jiang did that right after she won the game.(picture #1) ok, that was surely a decisive moment of the event. I congratulate to those who stood on my left hand side and being able to capture that moment.
    after 2 second, jiang kept the same posture and turned towards me.(picture#2). what do you think? still being counted as the decisive moment of the event?
    which picture looks better? meanwhile, which is the real decisive moment?
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  9. #43
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun
    poor him must be rolling in his grave when he finds out that we are now trying to brute force the decisive moment instead of capturing it with pure intuition and predicting the moment.
    Did HCB define it with his own mouth before? I think he is rolling now.

  10. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun
    yes. HCD retired from photography and returned to painting before the motor drive was invented! (in the late 70s or early 80s, i think)
    The motor drive was invented long before 1970. As a matter of fact I used to own a Robot Royal camera (pre-1960 model) that had a spring motor drive which could shoot at a rate of 6 frames/sec and I could shoot the whole roll in no time. I was offered a price I couldn't refuse and sadly it is no longer with me. Its spring motor drive, in which you merely wind the spring, would work at all time, unlike modern motor drives that will cease functioning when the battery is dead.

  11. #45
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    IMHO, in this discussion, the "decisive moment" along with exposure, composition, etc., are all up to what the photographer has in mind before s/he presses down on the shutter trigger. Afterwards, s/he and s/he alone can decide whether s/he's captured it the way she's envisioned it. When we see the picture we can either agree or disagree with her/him.

    For instance, HCB's man jumping over a puddle picture. IIRC, as the story goes, he knew exactly what he wanted to capture and waited for quite a long time for the moment he knew would come. And he didn't take only that one frame either, there were others. But, after everything's said and done, he chose the now famous picture to be published presumably because that's the one that fits his vision. If we're lucky enough to see the "rejected" frames, may be we'd find others that we individually like better, that we think have captured the moment better. It wouldn't matter, however, because the photographer's made his choice.

    All I'm saying is that, IMHO, the best picture of any particular subject is the one that fits the owner's vision. The owner can be the photographer as normally is the case in the amateur or independent pro. world, or the publication editor in the commercial world, hopefully with some input from the photographer.

  12. #46
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    I agree absolutey with quasimodo. In my view a photographer is trying to tell a story and the defining moment is going to change according to the storyteller. I think that when we are assessing what we want to capture we should be asking ourselves what it is we want our picture to say.

  13. #47
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasimodo
    For instance, HCB's man jumping over a puddle picture. IIRC, as the story goes, he knew exactly what he wanted to capture and waited for quite a long time for the moment he knew would come. And he didn't take only that one frame either, there were others. But, after everything's said and done, he chose the now famous picture to be published presumably because that's the one that fits his vision. If we're lucky enough to see the "rejected" frames, may be we'd find others that we individually like better, that we think have captured the moment better. It wouldn't matter, however, because the photographer's made his choice.
    I am not quite sure if he had shot a few more pictures right before and after that moment. But if he took that shot with his leica m3......then probably not!


    Quote Originally Posted by Quasimodo
    All I'm saying is that, IMHO, the best picture of any particular subject is the one that fits the owner's vision..
    I guess it isn't 100% correct. We just shouldn't think it this way in news photography/photojournalism.
    Last edited by red00ecstrat; 02-13-2007 at 06:00 AM.

  14. #48
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    so, any conclusion on decisive moment guys? what about this one?
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    That's some Crack Head Trick.

  16. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by red00ecstrat
    so, any conclusion on decisive moment guys? what about this one?
    It's a well taken picture, but I don't know if this would be a decisive moment. I would like to see the determination in his face just before the strike.

    Honestly, I don't know anything about the decisive moment

  17. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by red00ecstrat
    so, any conclusion on decisive moment guys? what about this one?
    Dunno. It is a nice picture.
    Is it what you were trying to take?
    You should have known what would be happening, so it was up to you to
    decide what sort of picture to take.

    Did you only take the one picture?
    or shoot on continuous and picked out that one?

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