Is the hook net drop shot legal?

**Glencoclub-Nick** · 03-01-2007, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by RobbieV

It is a good shot when used against incoming drop shots because you can precisly place the birdie to be sent over the net at a very steep drop angle, and close to the net. Also the deception involved with such a shot is high as well.

Its definitely illegal...

**RobbieV** · 03-01-2007, 08:08 PM

dang... i was getting good at it too

**Adone** · 03-01-2007, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by RobbieV

ohhhhh i get it now.
So it is illegal? i know someone posted a rule, but it doesnt say whether the rule is saying it is legal or not.

What i mean, is performing the same action to catch a birdie mid air, only instead of only just catching it, you scoop it like a catch and quickly drop it down over the net in one swift movement.

yeah that is very illegal. You cant hold the birdie on your racquet in the rally and/or drag it on the racquet.

**Loopy** · 03-01-2007, 11:41 PM

From what RobbieV describes, it is a tumble hairpin net shot where he slices the shuttle. It's not scooping, and it's definitely not illegal.

As a word of advice, try to choose your words carefully as it can be quite confusing. Instead, post a video of what you're doing, it might be more helpful.

**Adone** · 03-02-2007, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Loopy

From what RobbieV describes, it is a tumble hairpin net shot where he slices the shuttle. It's not scooping, and it's definitely not illegal.

As a word of advice, try to choose your words carefully as it can be quite confusing. Instead, post a video of what you're doing, it might be more helpful.

What he said, it doesnt seem to be anything like a slice. You know how people catch the bird with their racquet when its tossed over to them right? Well he meant, doing that except instead of letting it rest on your racquet, kinda twist it so it drops over the net on the other side.

**RobbieV** · 03-02-2007, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Adone

What he said, it doesnt seem to be anything like a slice. You know how people catch the bird with their racquet when its tossed over to them right? Well he meant, doing that except instead of letting it rest on your racquet, kinda twist it so it drops over the net on the other side.

yes that's exactly what i mean. i know what a slice is and that is not what i am trying to describe. If there were any videos of it available i will link to it but i am not aware of any. Maybe i will make one if i can get a camera...

**Dummey** · 03-02-2007, 02:12 AM

Ahh, okie confusion cleared. Generally, if the bird is in contact with the strings for more then an instant, then it's illegal. Instant as in a small fraction of time.

**yy_ling** · 03-02-2007, 04:17 AM

as long as you hold the shuttle, touch it more than once, or hampers its flight its illegal

**Neil Nicholls** · 03-02-2007, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by yy_ling

as long as you hold the shuttle, touch it more than once, or hampers its flight its illegal

touching the shuttle more than once is legal if it is done in 1 stroke.

Law 13.3.8
It shall be a 'fault' if in play, the shuttle is hit twice in succession by the same player. However, a shuttle hitting the head and the stringed area of the racket in one stroke shall not be a 'fault';

This is a change of wording from the old Law
13.6.2
It is a 'fault' if, in play, the shuttle is hit twice in succession by the same player with two strokes

and old Recommendations to Umpires
3.8.6 Law 13.6: a double hit by one player with one stroke is not a 'fault'.

I can't see any reference to it in the new Recommendations to Technical Officials

**Hagane** · 03-02-2007, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by Neil Nicholls

I can't see any reference to it in the new Recommendations to Technical Officials

The link I provided was taken from BWF's website, section: Laws of Badminton. Rule 13 covers Faults.

So if the shuttle is held, it is illegal.

From what was described, the move covers pretending to catch the shuttle and during the last moment hooking the shuttle to the back court.

If the shuttle was controlled ("caught") on the down stroke of the deception, then the change of direction ("held on then flung") is illegal.

If you don't touch it AT ALL on the down stroke, hence your first contact with the shuttle is when you're hitting it to the back court, it is a legal shot.

**rwg05** · 03-02-2007, 07:25 AM

Why should it be illegal if you aren't hitting the shuttle with anything other than your racquet, and the shuttle is in contact with your racquet for no more than an instant?
I don't think there are any restrictions on your hand movements while you play.

**Neil Nicholls** · 03-02-2007, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Hagane

The link I provided was taken from BWF's website, section: Laws of Badminton. Rule 13 covers Faults.

Your link was to the old 2002 laws.
That law is now 13.3.7 in the new 2006 Laws.

I wasn't commenting on that, but picking up on yy_ling's generalisation of hitting it twice is always illegal.

**RobbieV** · 03-02-2007, 08:29 AM

hrm... there still seems to be debate on this issue! The forums have done nothing! haha just kidding. This is the same sort of conversations i heard when i asked people that i play with...
Does anyone know an official??? I'll try to make a video and post it today or sometime over the weekend

**Loopy** · 03-02-2007, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by RobbieV

hrm... there still seems to be debate on this issue! The forums have done nothing! haha just kidding. This is the same sort of conversations i heard when i asked people that i play with...
Does anyone know an official??? I'll try to make a video and post it today or sometime over the weekend

If you're "holding" the shuttle like what Adone said, then it is definitely illegal. I'm 100% sure.

**RobbieV** · 03-02-2007, 09:14 AM

weell im not like pausing and holding it, its more of a swift fluid motion, not to be confused with a slice shot. It is one swift fluid motion where i smoothly cup the birdie and swoop it over the net.

**gustaff** · 03-02-2007, 10:38 AM

[quote=Neil Nicholls]Your link was to the old 2002 laws.
That law is now 13.3.7 in the new 2006 Laws.[quote]

Hey :P the 1337 law... x) anyways, i wouldnt think that shot is legal... dont know much about the more precise rules of badminton, though it would be good knowing

.. it just feels wrong, maybe im wrong.. who knows :P ^^

**CWB001** · 03-02-2007, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Neil Nicholls

touching the shuttle more than once is legal if it is done in 1 stroke.

Law 13.3.8
It shall be a 'fault' if in play, the shuttle is hit twice in succession by the same player. However, a shuttle hitting the head and the stringed area of the racket in one stroke shall not be a 'fault';

This is a change of wording from the old Law
13.6.2
It is a 'fault' if, in play, the shuttle is hit twice in succession by the same player with two strokes

and old Recommendations to Umpires
3.8.6 Law 13.6: a double hit by one player with one stroke is not a 'fault'.

I can't see any reference to it in the new Recommendations to Technical Officials

I take it you mean that touching the shuttle is illegal if it is done in one stroke.

The only way it is legal under the new laws (as is indicated in your quote of law 13.3.8) is if the shuttle strikes the frame and strings in one stroke. Two hits with the strings or two hits with the frame (!!) are both a fault whether it is one stroke or not.

I suspect the reason you could not find a recommendation to officials is that it is seen to be unambiguous now.

And, of course, what RobbieV describes is completely illegal, being a slung shot or carry as defined under 13.3.7 of the new laws:

"13 It shall be a fault:

...

13.3 if in play, the shuttle:

...

13.3.7 is caught and held on the racket and then slung during the execution of a stroke; "