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  1. #35
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    Default Love for the coach(the living one, not the one for lying)

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    My friend, you should read Rasif Sidek's assessment of this new pair to determine whether he is right or does it boil down to "speed and low drives" as you claim.
    This may be a dumbass question but what did Rasif S. say? To me, most , if not all, MAS players have fantastic skills because that's how they are selected first and then they work on the fitness and the discipline. That's why MAS players are great to watch even when they break your heart after. The difference in outcome lies more in the mind: fearlessness and sheer hunger. Basically the brain directs the body and the outcome depends on whether the body can deliver. In KKK/TBH 's case, the urgency to deliver was triggered by coach Rexy's emotional outburst. They have never seen a coach so passionate, so reduced to tears and so broken he wanted to resign.( Now if LiMao could show that,LCW might be different.) So it's a good thing Rexy showed his feelings (I'm beginning to like him now) Believe me, the MAS MDs that are going to be firing are the ones doing it for Rexy, not for themselves. It's the ultimate motivation: love for the coach.

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    Well Razif made his positive comments about KKK/TBH after their AE victory which you can find in the thread on "Players of the New Era".

    He categorized them under "attack, defence, craft, pace & Power and Deception".

    http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=41839 #2

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    I think it may be more than just speed and low drives although these two are essential elements that won them games. Power and craftiness are definitely part of the winning strategy, and I suspect the ability to deliver all the above is also part of it.

    These two guys (after watching the TV documentary about them recently) have been playing since they were kids. Their abilities were all coming from their years of training and I would strongly disagree with anyone who thinks that Rexy is not part of the winning strategy -- Rexy instils discipline, strength, character (including emotion), experience, and knowledge into the pair. No coach has shown such emotional involvement as Rexy -- threatening to quit to get his players to up their standards is never seen. It is a classic for me.

    Rexy, if they decide to hire you for the rest of your life, it is not too long for me !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by abedeng
    Really, if we want to talk about new dawns, this is not the time yet. The whole squad has to be consistent before new dawns happen. Not to take away anything from Koo/Tan and Rexy.
    .
    Abedeng, pardon me but I think if you were looking at the Singles to fire as well before declaring it a new dawn, then I think you will be waiting for Sunset to come.

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    yeah..hopefully LCW wil gain his confidnce back n playwell ths time around.. n well,well, kkk/tbh are doing well (we are so proud of them !!!)..btw, the thg of kkk promoting hair cream ? heheh,sounds cute but no, lets jst let him promote bdmtn rackets or sumthg rathr than d cream..hehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by X Ball
    Abedeng, pardon me but I think if you were looking at the Singles to fire as well before declaring it a new dawn, then I think you will be waiting for Sunset to come.
    Come to think of it,"dawn", which is described as the first appearance of light in the sky before "sunrise" is not too much different from sunset in the physical sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X Ball
    Abedeng, pardon me but I think if you were looking at the Singles to fire as well before declaring it a new dawn, then I think you will be waiting for Sunset to come.
    The question is this, are we so easily made happy with Koo/Tan's achievements, without concern with the overall state of affairs? Sure, Koo/Tan did great, the girls and an ageing Roslin performed very well, but that doesn't make a great overall team performance. How do we even harbour the dream to win back Thomas Cup and make an impact in Uber/Sudirman Cups?

    What happened to Hafiz after his All England victory, why keep pointing fingers at Misbun alone? LCW's rot started way before Li Mao left, what was the cause? KBH never actually recovered from his TC failure, should he still be in the squad? Why are the grassroot BJSS players not stepping up quickly enough? Why after 5 years are we still relying only on WMC and WPT/CEH in the women's squad, what happened to the other girls who share the same coaches? These are questions to be answered.

    Unlike PBSI, BAM don't have funding issues, they can and have hired the best coaches time and again, but results are not forthcoming since Tan Sri Elyas Omar was pushed out. Koo/Tan are just exceptions to the rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abedeng
    The question is this, are we so easily made happy with Koo/Tan's achievements, without concern with the overall state of affairs? Sure, Koo/Tan did great, the girls and an ageing Roslin performed very well, but that doesn't make a great overall team performance. How do we even harbour the dream to win back Thomas Cup and make an impact in Uber/Sudirman Cups?

    What happened to Hafiz after his All England victory, why keep pointing fingers at Misbun alone? LCW's rot started way before Li Mao left, what was the cause? KBH never actually recovered from his TC failure, should he still be in the squad? Why are the grassroot BJSS players not stepping up quickly enough? Why after 5 years are we still relying only on WMC and WPT/CEH in the women's squad, what happened to the other girls who share the same coaches? These are questions to be answered.

    Unlike PBSI, BAM don't have funding issues, they can and have hired the best coaches time and again, but results are not forthcoming since Tan Sri Elyas Omar was pushed out. Koo/Tan are just exceptions to the rule.
    Abedeng, in life we must not ask too much or else we will not be happy. Similarly in badminton, we have come a long way with our doubles, and we should be happy.

    You are not happy because we have not achieved in every department of badminton, and to you it is not a new dawn....maybe a little sunrise perhaps?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    Come to think of it,"dawn", which is described as the first appearance of light in the sky before "sunrise" is not too much different from sunset in the physical sense.
    Loh, sunrise, sunset, dawn, ...what does it mean to you ? Nothing.....because there is no dawn, sunset, or sunrise in Singapore's badminton. Sorry friend for being .

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    Quote Originally Posted by X Ball
    Loh, sunrise, sunset, dawn, ...what does it mean to you ? Nothing.....because there is no dawn, sunset, or sunrise in Singapore's badminton. Sorry friend for being .
    I think that is a bit too harsh.

    I personally think that Singapore Badminton has made marked improvement over the decade. If we can produce a Ronald Susilo (WR 24), though we can't claim 100% credit since he came here only during Secondary 2, which is equivalent to about 13 years' old, who can beat Lin Dan (WR1) during R1 of the last Olympics and your very own LCW (WR4) during the recent Swiss Open, your description which is tantamount to "no future" does not hold ground.

    If our very own Kendrick Lee (WR 27), can give your veteran Roslin Hashim (WR 19) a good fight in 3 games during the Swiss Open, Singapore Badminton can't be that bad.

    Though we can't expect much from tiny Singapore, our SBA has a viable programme to train badminton talents, both from locally and abroad. The support from our government and sponsors is still available. Our Sports School will soon produce its first graduates which can add to the supply of badminton players to the small talent pool for the National Team. Hopefully, the other schools can add a little more to the pool.

    So, there will still be pockets of sunrise here and there to sustain the interest of our badminton fraternity. Hopefully, we all agree that badminton is not a sunset industry.

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    X_Ball, Loh deserves more respect than that. And just because SG hasn't made a breakthrough doesn't mean it will remain that way forever.

    Bear in mind that S'pore had produced outstanding players before, they can do it again. In fact they had quite a good tournament in Swiss Open.

    Your definition of too much is my definition of not enough. I've seen enough from the mid-70s when an untalented Malaysia beat Denmark to the TC final 1976 on the strength of team spirit alone (even though we eventually lost to Indonesia in the final). That same spirit + some talent + better coaching carried us through the 88, 90 finals before we eventually won it in 92, beating stronger opposition.

    Now, we have more talents + even better coaching, but few talents are as spirited as the old Thomas Cup teams. And mentally, we just could not reach gold in WC and Olympics. As bad as the situation is in PBSI, Indonesia had always won Olympic Gold from 1992 to 2004, and I'm sure they will again next year.
    Last edited by abedeng; 03-27-2007 at 03:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    I think that is a bit too harsh.

    I personally think that Singapore Badminton has made marked improvement over the decade. If we can produce a Ronald Susilo (WR 24), though we can't claim 100% credit since he came here only during Secondary 2, which is equivalent to about 13 years' old, who can beat Lin Dan (WR1) during R1 of the last Olympics and your very own LCW (WR4) during the recent Swiss Open, your description which is tantamount to "no future" does not hold ground.

    If our very own Kendrick Lee (WR 27), can give your veteran Roslin Hashim (WR 19) a good fight in 3 games during the Swiss Open, Singapore Badminton can't be that bad.

    Though we can't expect much from tiny Singapore, our SBA has a viable programme to train badminton talents, both from locally and abroad. The support from our government and sponsors is still available. Our Sports School will soon produce its first graduates which can add to the supply of badminton players to the small talent pool for the National Team. Hopefully, the other schools can add a little more to the pool.

    So, there will still be pockets of sunrise here and there to sustain the interest of our badminton fraternity. Hopefully, we all agree that badminton is not a sunset industry.
    By golly, you are talking my language, sunrise, sunset.

    Anyway, Singapore may one day develop a champion(s) but I don't see it on the horizon currently. I know how frustrating it is not to get someone up there to win something for Singapore (and no intended here).

    I still maintain that it is a new dawn - the fans have been waiting for someone to come along where they consistently win and give them something to cheer on. If you ask any Malaysian fan today, it did not matter to them whether LCW or Hafiz is doing badly....all they know and care for now is KKK-TBH, the champions. It is like a hurdle had been crossed.

    The excitement is back in Malaysian badminton, whereby it did not matter if LCW loses his singles, there is still KKK-TBH in the Finals to cheer for !

    Right guys ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by abedeng
    X_Ball, Loh deserves more respect than that. And just because SG hasn't made a breakthrough doesn't mean it will remain that way forever.

    Bear in mind that S'pore had produced outstanding players before, they can do it again. In fact they had quite a good tournament in Swiss Open.

    Your definition of too much is my definition of not enough. I've seen enough from the mid-70s when an untalented Malaysia beat Denmark to the TC final 1976 on the strength of team spirit alone (even though we eventually lost to Indonesia in the final). That same spirit + some talent + better coaching carried us through the 88, 90 finals before we eventually won it in 92, beating stronger opposition.

    Now, we have more talents + even better coaching, but few talents are as spirited as the old Thomas Cup teams. And mentally, we just could not reach gold in WC and Olympics. As bad as the situation is in PBSI, Indonesia had always won Olympic Gold from 1992 to 2004, and I'm sure they will again next year.
    Abedeng, stop sounding so pessimistic.....it is not all doom and gloom. Currently, it is more boom and bloom ! Malaysia Boleh !

    The Asian Championship in Johor soon will be another glorious event where KKK-TBH will shine (we expect nothing less). I am pretty sure the other Malaysian pairs want to prove that they can be as good --- we might see some real sparks then.

    LCW, the ex-Kampong Jaguh (Village Champ), will rise to claim his status again. Wong Tat Meng vows to be as good as Li Mao...so let us see ! BTW, LCW has 'bottomed out' --- he has hit the lowest status he can go, so I think the only way is UP for him. And I truly thinks he can do it if he plays strong and aggresive. Expect something new from him -- he is not about to lie down and fade away !

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    Quote Originally Posted by abedeng
    X_Ball, Loh deserves more respect than that. And just because SG hasn't made a breakthrough doesn't mean it will remain that way forever.

    Bear in mind that S'pore had produced outstanding players before, they can do it again. In fact they had quite a good tournament in Swiss Open.

    Your definition of too much is my definition of not enough. I've seen enough from the mid-70s when an untalented Malaysia beat Denmark to the TC final 1976 on the strength of team spirit alone (even though we eventually lost to Indonesia in the final). That same spirit + some talent + better coaching carried us through the 88, 90 finals before we eventually won it in 92, beating stronger opposition.

    Now, we have more talents + even better coaching, but few talents are as spirited as the old Thomas Cup teams. And mentally, we just could not reach gold in WC and Olympics. As bad as the situation is in PBSI, Indonesia had always won Olympic Gold from 1992 to 2004, and I'm sure they will again next year.
    Abedeng, stop sounding so pessimistic.....it is not all doom and gloom. Currently, it is more boom and bloom ! Malaysia Boleh !

    The Asian Championship in Johor soon will be another glorious event where KKK-TBH will shine (we expect nothing less). I am pretty sure the other Malaysian pairs want to prove that they can be as good --- we might see some real sparks then.

    LCW, the ex-Kampong Jaguh (Village Champ), will rise to claim his status again. Wong Tat Meng vows to be as good as Li Mao...so let us see ! BTW, LCW has 'bottomed out' --- he has hit the lowest status he can go, so I think the only way is UP for him. And I truly think he can do it if he plays strong and aggresive. Expect something new from him -- he is not about to lie down and fade away !

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    Quote Originally Posted by X Ball
    By golly, you are talking my language, sunrise, sunset.

    Anyway, Singapore may one day develop a champion(s) but I don't see it on the horizon currently. I know how frustrating it is not to get someone up there to win something for Singapore (and no intended here).

    I still maintain that it is a new dawn - the fans have been waiting for someone to come along where they consistently win and give them something to cheer on. If you ask any Malaysian fan today, it did not matter to them whether LCW or Hafiz is doing badly....all they know and care for now is KKK-TBH, the champions. It is like a hurdle had been crossed.

    The excitement is back in Malaysian badminton, whereby it did not matter if LCW loses his singles, there is still KKK-TBH in the Finals to cheer for !

    Right guys ?
    We need to talk your lingo to make you understand better.

    Actually Singapore has produced champions before, it depends on at what level and your time frame for "horizon".

    If I were a Malaysian fan, I definitely would like both Hafiz and LCW to be doing better than before, especially for LCW who has most of essential ingredients of becoming a champion again.

    As someone has said, KKK/TBH have not tested the might of the Koreans yet and also remember other notable pairings have also taken the Malaysians more seriously and will do their homework to beat them at the next outing. Ups and downs are expected irrespective of how good a team is.

    That's why it is important for Malaysia and other aspiring countries to develop a more balanced team in all the competitive events in order to maintain a truly good all-round standing. A lopsided development may not achieve the desired impact and success.

    That's why I can't fully agree that a new dawn in Malaysian badminton has evolved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    We need to talk your lingo to make you understand better.

    Actually Singapore has produced champions before, it depends on at what level and your time frame for "horizon".

    If I were a Malaysian fan, I definitely would like both Hafiz and LCW to be doing better than before, especially for LCW who has most of essential ingredients of becoming a champion again.

    As someone has said, KKK/TBH have not tested the might of the Koreans yet and also remember other notable pairings have also taken the Malaysians more seriously and will do their homework to beat them at the next outing. Ups and downs are expected irrespective of how good a team is.

    That's why it is important for Malaysia and other aspiring countries to develop a more balanced team in all the competitive events in order to maintain a truly good all-round standing. A lopsided development may not achieve the desired impact and success.

    That's why I can't fully agree that a new dawn in Malaysian badminton has evolved.
    Loh, Malaysia is well advanced in its doubles program and its ladies are coming along well (despite the fact that I believe the current crop of players are not the best in training).

    Sure the singles had a set back but is it the end of the world - LCW, Hafiz and WCH are still up with the top 10. If you have a reasonable expectation like mine, you would say Malaysia's success is other countries' demise (especially Singapore's).

    Malaysia has swept 4 MD titles out of 6, even the dominant Chinese top pair has to 'kow-tow' to the Malaysian pair (KKK-TBH). With time, this pair might even be more daunting with more wins. Sure you talk about the Korean pair but tell me what have they done so far for KKK-TBH to fear them ? Did they win 4 titles out of 6 ? And don't tell me it is because they have not met KKK-TBH in the last few tournaments else KKK-TBH would have not won so many titles --- you might be accused of making suppositions. The fact is KKK-TBH beat all other players whom the Koreans lost to --- in fact, it is sad they were not good enough to get into the Finals to meet KKK-TBH. KKK-TBH wanted to meet them so badly but it was a case of the Koreans being not good enough --- so please don't make it look or sound like the Koreans would be a threat to KKK-TBH when they meet.

    Learn how to face the truth and accord KKK-TBH the respect they truly deserve. Don't try to convince everyone that there are other teams about to spring surprises on KKK-TBH any time in the future. We waited in the last 4 tournaments (MALAYSIAN, ASIAD, ALL-ENGLAND, SWISS) and these teams have not surfaced ---- in fact so much so Rexy is scared that our players would be lured into complacency. But no chance, Rexy and the boys are prepared (they are more prepared now than before).

    By the wayy, do you know the more you try to convince me the new dawn has not arrived, the more you sound like sour grapes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    Well Razif made his positive comments about KKK/TBH after their AE victory which you can find in the thread on "Players of the New Era".

    He categorized them under "attack, defence, craft, pace & Power and Deception".
    in my opinion, Razif exageratted a little. KKK/TBH are not perfect players yet. They have a lot mote to improve on. If some pairs break their winning streak, i guess it is hard for them to win back to back titles again. I can only wish KKK/TBH good luck rather than comment on their skills. Must improve more!

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