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  1. #86
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bocmark
    Hey! How come no one extend special invitation to LI De Quan! As far as I can tell, the staunch and unwavering CHN supporter. It'll be good to see the clash of titans (MAS v CHN fans) in live... If it does happen, LOH pls take some photos
    We don't know who he/she is, not even the exact location in China as profiled!

    On the other hand, we know Yannie quite well from so many of her postings. We have even seen her photographs, the place where she lives, etc and therefore we can relate to her much better. Maybe LDQ can do likewise?
    Last edited by Loh; 04-23-2007 at 11:23 PM.

  2. #87
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indra
    Yes....I guess Singapore is one of the most well-organized and well-governed countries in the world

    The same is true for Badminton. As such, Singapore Super Series should be 8*, as in my opinion, SS has always been more competitive than any other tournaments including All-England...
    Wah Indra! Terima Kasi sa-tinggi tinggi!
    Such compliments from a TH fan will inspire us to do even better.

    BTW, TH has many fans in Singapore as well. When he went to our schools to demonstrate his skills during his relatively short stay here some years ago, the boys and girls just fell head over heels for him!

    Only wished you could come and join us, not only for the Aviva Open, but also a BC "Makan" Get-together on semi-finals night.
    Last edited by Loh; 04-23-2007 at 11:39 PM.

  3. #88
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Off topic-Well..

    Quote Originally Posted by indra
    Yes....I guess Singapore is one of the most well-organized and well-governed countries in the world
    ..true but i think this is sort of an understatement. I believe they are the most strict, "we're very serious so don't mess around" country in the world(along with M'sia); and yep, more so than U.S., esp. with that "NO DRUGS allowed unless you want a very harsh/death penalty" rule..
    The same is true for Badminton. As such, Singapore Super Series should be 8*, as in my opinion, SS has always been more competitive than any other tournaments including All-England...
    ..yes, quite agree ..S'pore is very unique and has that "east-meets-west atmosphere" and charm..And of course, with English as one of its main languages, which bodes well to those non-local/non-Mandarin speaking folks..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 04-24-2007 at 01:04 AM.

  4. #89
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad
    ..true but i think this is sort of an understatement. I believe they are the most strict, "we're very serious so don't mess around" country in the world(along with M'sia); and yep, more so than U.S., esp. with that "NO DRUGS allowed unless you want a very harsh/death penalty" rule..

    Well, if you think about it, drugs traffickers themselves bring death to many victims. So if they should be caught and given the death penalty, this is not even enough to pay for the many sometimes innocent and young lives that were indirectly killed by them.

    Countries that are lenient on drug traffickers could then be said to be encouring more of them to earn easy money by taking away lives.

    That's why Singapore is unyielding on this front.

    ..yes, quite agree ..S'pore is very unique and has that "east-meets-west atmosphere" and charm..And of course, with English as one of its main languages, which bodes well to those non-local/non-Mandarin speaking folks..
    Unlike many other developing countries that newly attained independence from their colonial masters, Singapore chose not to play on "nationalism" . Some other countries tried to go it their own way by destroying whatever they have inherited from them and tried to emphasize their own culture, their own language.

    Fortunately our pioneer leaders were more insightful and retained English as not only the business and education language but as a means also to bond the various races through a common 'neutral' language. Since Singapore is predominantly Chinese, it could have chosen Chinese to the detriment of the other races.

    But this stroke of genius by retaining English as the main medium of communication actually helped propelled Singapore into the First World way ahead of others of more or less similar colonial background. Instead of fighting our colonial masters, we cooperated with them and pleased them by retaining English as part of our heritage.

    For English is the most spoken word in the world in that many countries speak it to communicate with each other. Those countries without a fluent usage of English will find their development hindered. Thankfully many of our pioneer leaders were educated in the West, in prestigious UK universities in particular.

  5. #90
    Regular Member wilfredlgf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    But this stroke of genius by retaining English as the main medium of communication actually helped propelled Singapore into the First World way ahead of others of more or less similar colonial background. Instead of fighting our colonial masters, we cooperated with them and pleased them by retaining English as part of our heritage.

    For English is the most spoken word in the world in that many countries speak it to communicate with each other. Those countries without a fluent usage of English will find their development hindered. Thankfully many of our pioneer leaders were educated in the West, in prestigious UK universities in particular.
    This stroke of genius is also eroding the cultural diversity of Singapore as more and more of the newer generation cannot or have forgotten about their mother tongues and/or dialects. The homogenity(sp?) of the situation means that only an accepted norm/culture is going to propagate amongst the people.

    Not saying that non of the say, Chinese in Singapore are capable of actually speaking their home dialects but the trend where one cannot even comprehend Mandarin is becoming more and more apparent as the years go by. This was told to me by a Singaporean friend herself, whom said she can no longer speak in her father's Hokkien tongue whilst many of her coursemates at the university can hardly understand Mandarin.

    Is this the price of unity and progress? Quite a paradox.

  6. #91
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    it's still better than what *some* governments are doing by ostracising their own citizens whilst pretending there's some perceived unity within the country. but that's a story for another day and we're repidly departing from the original topic ...

  7. #92
    Regular Member wilfredlgf's Avatar
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    I was hoping for an attack on the issue instead of the character but then again... oh well.

    Back to badminton we go!

  8. #93
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    hahahaha, i'm just a bitter and disillusioned soul ....

  9. #94
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilfredlgf
    This stroke of genius is also eroding the cultural diversity of Singapore as more and more of the newer generation cannot or have forgotten about their mother tongues and/or dialects. The homogenity(sp?) of the situation means that only an accepted norm/culture is going to propagate amongst the people.

    Not saying that non of the say, Chinese in Singapore are capable of actually speaking their home dialects but the trend where one cannot even comprehend Mandarin is becoming more and more apparent as the years go by. This was told to me by a Singaporean friend herself, whom said she can no longer speak in her father's Hokkien tongue whilst many of her coursemates at the university can hardly understand Mandarin.

    Is this the price of unity and progress? Quite a paradox.
    I don't quite agree with your friend.

    On the other hand, many more young people in Singapore are bilingual. In other words, they can write and speak, and certainly comprehend and converse in both English and Mandarin for the Chinese. Much better than my generation which seemed to rely mainly on one language, either English or Mandarin.

    Of course if you are referring to the standard or level of proficiency, it is a different matter altogether. Quite naturally, if one has to spend a similar amount of time to study two languages instead of one, a very high standard cannot be achieved in both. It also depends on the student's interest and abilities. Very good students have the opportunity to study 'higher' Chinese as Singapore's policy is also catered to the very talented, not only the average. And the curriculum is constantly reviewed to enhance the teaching of Chinese and to make hitherto disinterested students interested.

    The learning of dialects is now left mainly to the parents or grandparents who will also transmit traditions, beliefs, practices and unique cultures to the young and not just left to the schools. Interested young people can also learn culture from the internet, where information is abundant. They can also view DVD movies in dialects in private.

    A foreigner can easily learn about the cultures of the world, including the Chinese culture, if he is interested and can even go on to pursue a doctorate in the study of it. He will then know much, much more about the Chinese culture than many Chinese do. So you don't need to be a Chinese to know about Chinese culture. Surely one must have come across a non-Chinese who is a professor of Chinese in some well-known and highly regarded universities.

    Interestingly, a recent survey has found that almost 250 million Chinese, mainly farmers, in China do not know how to read or write Chinese. Although they can converse verbally they are illiterate in Chinese but this does not prevent them from knowing and learning Chinese culture as they are living and practising it in their homes as taught by their elders and in their interaction with their neighbours and countrymen.

    Singapore has long discouraged the use of too many Chinese dialects as it creates divisions and sometimes confusion. The learning of Mandarin is good enough to bring the Chinese community together to understand a common language as the written form is the same for all Chinese dialects.

    In fact the environment for learning the two different languages in Singapore has improved over the years with more interesting programmes on TV and the advent of the internet. The Chinese newspapers make it easier by using simplier language to attract more readers. Even the English-speakers are interested to watch Mandarin serials and sing Chinese Karaoke songs and thus are able to learn the language quicker.

    China's economic boom has given Mandarin learning more meaning (Unlike Taiwan which uses Hokkien as well, China uses Mandarin only) and our students tend to benefit in this respect. Our bilingual educational policy has now created another advantage for our people, aside from English at the very beginning of our economic development. Our students now better understand and value more what they have been put through!

    So rather than the policies making our young people pay a high price and causing disunity, they have prepared our young for the challenges ahead, though not perfectly but at least given them a chance to face the issues and continue to learn from there.

    Now the challenge for us is how to make Singaporeans accept more cosmopolitianism to enhance our economical well-being and bring everything possible to a new high. Just like the dynamism and cosmopilitan culture one finds in New York and London.

  10. #95
    Regular Member wilfredlgf's Avatar
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    Good retort there, Loh. Just what I was looking for.

  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh
    It is not of much use if you live in a big country, in a big house but when you step out of it, you fear that you are not safe, well protected. Gangsters may gun you down, snatch thieves may just zoom by you on their motorcycles to grab your personal belongings. Crime rate is high. Added to this are the social habits of the residents, whether they spit about the place, whether they just throw their rubbish at random, etc, etc.

    That may be one reason why X Ball chooses to retire in Australia, intead of remaining in Malaysia!
    I feel rather safe in KL. I like the big houses (although I don't stay in one), the big space to move about in the country (from Penang to Cameron Highlands, from KL to Desaru, from Malacca to Trengannu, and from Seremban to Genting Highlands). The food is also very good here in KL. I can drive for hours without paying thru my nose. The food is so cheap.

    I don't like the crowded spaces in Singapore (all the shops are so crowded), the parking coupons I have to purchase and put on my car every where I park; the charging of entry into the city; the high petrol prices; the high cost of owning homes; the high prices of car; my mee pok is double price in Singapore, and the places to visit are so few. I basically don't like the PAY and PAY (PAP) environment !

    I enjoy the fishing in Australia; the vineyards, the SPACE, and the climate. Malaysia and Australia are both wonderful places to live !

  12. #97
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    Loh, stop insinuating that Malaysia is unsafe, dirty and full of criminals. It is totally uncalled for, and I see this as very very insulting.

    I am not saying that Singapore is not a nice place to live, but unfortunatley it has priced itself so high that a large number of the people can only afford to live in HDB flats. I had a friend from Britain who commented that the house prices there are equal or even higher than UK, and that is quite amazing. The UK is surrounded by very developed, and thus, equally expensive countries, so that is not too bad. However, Singapore is surronded by far cheaper economies (albeit less developed). In many ways, Malaysia has a lot to learn from Singapore's effiency and effective execution. But this quote below, I am afraid to say, is very very bad. If that is how you view us, then you really do not respect your neighbours. You think we live in gutters? (pardon my English, for I am unschooled).

    "It is not of much use if you live in a big country, in a big house but when you step out of it, you fear that you are not safe, well protected. Gangsters may gun you down, snatch thieves may just zoom by you on their motorcycles to grab your personal belongings. Crime rate is high. Added to this are the social habits of the residents, whether they spit about the place, whether they just throw their rubbish at random, etc, etc.

    That may be one reason why X Ball chooses to retire in Australia, intead of remaining in Malaysia!"


    However, my impression of you as a person who can accept other opinions have gone down the drain. X Ball, there is no point in arguing with Loh further, he will not change his view of us judging from his quote.

    I am actually very very disappointed. I was going to accept a position with a Singapore mobile phone operator, and would have brought in much knowledge in the development of 4G WiMax and WiFi for mobile phones , but it is things like this that I will now accept another position in KL. No amount of money will make me feel accepted or happy if Malaysia is viewed so negatively all the time.

    I hope this discussion is at an end as it has nothing to do with badminton.

  13. #98
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    woah, steady gents, this thread has gone wayyyy off topic!

  14. #99
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    A hot and emotional topic to discuss. There is no perfect place to live, while we say Singapore is an expensive place to live penalize for everything but we also admire Sing, being a tiny island with practically no resources (even water is imported), the govt has done a great job shaping the country into a progressive and highly educated society. Loh's comments have merits too, don't we agree? I sometimes wonder if MAS with its huge virgin land, lotsa resources, cheap labour, etc...if only MAS has HK or Sing's progressive attitude, MAS gotta be a great place to live and work, and who wanna leave to go anywhere else?

  15. #100
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    Hmmm sounds good... But then we are out of topic here.

  16. #101
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Off topic-If all goes well...

    ...and luck is on my side this yr, i shall visit M'sia for the 1st time(WC) and hopefully and perhaps I can give some kind of an assessment(s) of my experience(s) there..IMO, both countries have their advantages and disadvantages. I guess those are what make the countries what they are.
    I, personally, have visited and spent quite a few days in S'pore, thus i can give my own point of view; eventhough i come from a western culture(U.S.).
    *Sorry again for the off-topic discussion(partly i'm involved and as we're filling in time while waiting for the upcoming S'pore Open)

  17. #102
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    I am sorry gents, I know it has gone way off topic here.

    However, I need to do something if someone comes pissing around my back yard . Peace.

    Agreed, Mas have lots to learn from Sing, no question about it. However, Mas is no slouch as well. Humility is very important, you do not turn a factual discussion into a personal attack.
    Last edited by wl2172; 04-24-2007 at 01:14 PM.

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