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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by llpjlau
    why does China seem to have uber dominance on the women's single's stage?...
    Because there's no way you can find second ZHANG NING!

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cao ci dan
    Because there's no way you can find second ZHANG NING!
    look at how Zhang Ning destruct Xie Xingfang in the rubber set during singapore open. 21-3. China no.1 and no.2 fighting it out at Singapore Open. i'm entertained by their match. it was a great match.

  3. #20
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    how did she beat XXF 21-3 ??? i didnt watch the match, some details please? 21-3 !!

  4. #21
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    I don't think its just the hand picking of the players from young that affects this. I think the harsh training method of the Chinese ultimately plays the most important part. They are really breaking physical standards everywhere.

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by llpjlau
    how did she beat XXF 21-3 ??? i didnt watch the match, some details please? 21-3 !!
    she was in total control of the match. XXF confidence was lost and keep making mistake. throughout the rubber set, Zhang Ning made only 2 mistakes.

  6. #23
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    a fit ZN would beat any WS period.

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    a fit ZN would beat any WS period.
    I tend to agree. XXF is skillful, and has improved her Agility and movement in recent years, but she is still inconsistent.

    When ZN is fully fit she is consistent, powerful and controls rallies well. Unfortunately as she is getting older these attributes wane.

    XXF should be able to play as long as ZN has providing she has the desire. ZN has tremendous desire to play and win.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20
    I tend to agree. XXF is skillful, and has improved her Agility and movement in recent years, but she is still inconsistent.

    When ZN is fully fit she is consistent, powerful and controls rallies well. Unfortunately as she is getting older these attributes wane.

    XXF should be able to play as long as ZN has providing she has the desire. ZN has tremendous desire to play and win.
    from the SO, ZN seem to recovered to her old form. I noticed ZN became less reliable after her wedding. Maybe things have settled down and she's concentrating on badminton again.

  9. #26
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    In terms of talent I dun think Indonesia is any worse than China (in the men's sector)...Look at Taufik he is the best player ever produced n not forgeting the former olympic champion Candra Wijaya and Tony Gunawan they were awesome and we used to have Ricky-Rexy! while CHina for men's doubles only relies on Cai-Fu.................

    Indonesia' mistake is 'they wait for talent instead of looking for them' (quoted from Indra Gunawan and Ivana Lie).........So they expect talents to come to them not looking for them.....

    I think if Djarum Kudus, Suryanaga, Tangkas, SGS Elektrik and Jaya Raya are more involved in looking for talents then get these players to PBSI...Indonesia would be able to match China in Men's department.......I mean Indonesia and China has won 70% of all IBF events...

    Moreover, Indonesian other big firms should be more involved in badminton....firms like Bank Mandiri (their assets are accounted to trillions of Ruppiah), BCA (another major bank in Indonesia), Sampoerna (Cigarettes), NISP (Another big bank...they should support badminton rather than that pointless motor sport), Agung Podomoro and other big firms so we have a league of about 20 teams who are very competitive and they should only be allowed 3 national players and 1 foreign (should have at least 2-3 players at junior level)....this way, PBSI can then pick the best players out of these clubs to be in Indonesian team for Sudirman Cup, Thomas Cup and other super series events.......so the league should be played a bit like those of football (with home and away system...so each team have 38 games in a yr) and only stop 1-2 weeks prior to super series events to bring the players together in national training camp......this is cheaper for PBSI and it would create more interest for badminton nationwide as we as Indonesians begin to support different team

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidosetiawan
    Indonesia' mistake is 'they wait for talent instead of looking for them' (quoted from Indra Gunawan and Ivana Lie).........So they expect talents to come to them not looking for them.....
    Actually there isn't a lack of talents in those clubs that you mentioned. Yearly, Djarum holds a trial camp where hundreds of children from all over Indonesia would come to try out. Only ten makes it in. There is a lot of clubs all over Indonesia, all of them would have one or two talent at one point in time and these talents would then be sent to those major clubs that you've mentioned. So really there's nothing wrong with the Indonesian system of getting talents. The problem is whether those talent gets into PBSI and whether PBSI grooms them well.

  11. #28
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    No problem is not with the club but with PBSI they wait for talent instead of looking....I mean we can't find any other impressive talent now below SImon...China has Chen yu and Chen Jin....Indo dun really have new players below Simon.........Christian Hadinata mentioned that problem is their mentality...they are not showing confidence.........I mean I feel sad looking at Indo badminton now......cos we used to have 4 singles each with their own special ability (Hendrawan's era).........well I do hope Indonesia will have new talent in at least 10 years time

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    Title : Badminton: Top shuttlers say China's dominance unhealthy
    Then the onus is on the rest to pick a fight, not lie down and surrender.

    Bigger pool of players? It's a dog in dog world in the highest level of competition and only the best (in most scenario) will prevail and go on to achieve great things.

    The normal Bell curve, based on this will mean that the number of people at the extreme end i.e. the most talented players with the best physical attributes will increase in number, increasing the amount of competition. In the same aspect, it will also increase the number of people who can usurp the position at the top on a regular basis.

    But that is not why China dominates WS.

    The main reason lies in the socio-economical make up of the people in that nation. How many of the population actually live in a good, modern life in the cities such as Shanghai and Beijing? The glossy brochures and television programs showcasing technology, laboratories, universities, schools and commercial institutions does not represent much of the peasants and blue collared workers whom make up the biggest slice of the population pie.

    In many parts of the country the old tradition and way of life prevails - patriarchal family system, male-favoured promogeniture, harder living conditions and lack of modern amenities would mean that most of the women would be under greater constraint to either serve the family in exclusivity and nothing else, with the exception of perhaps the country.

    The biggest difference between the people of both divides is probably the level of education and I'm not talking about basic skills such as reading, writing and counting. A general assumption will tell you that those in the cities, especially commercial urban areas, the average level of education increases within the same sample number.

    So what's the point of all that lecture on the difference in socio-economy?

    The average level of education for women are higher in places such as Denmark, Sweden, United Kingdom, Indonesia, Malaysia and Korea if you make a rough estimation based on the population number of each country.

    Again, what is the point?

    Education opens the mind, exposing it to the bigger world, allowing for greater choice and most of all, the means for options other than the one their ancestors or parents are brought up to. Women are no longer interested in the old mentality of playing second fiddle to men, they want to do what they want, think whatever they want. Are they still interested to serve for the pride of the country? Education doesn't make one less patriotic but increases the likelihood that their attention are elsewhere on more interesting and rewarding ventures - entertainment, business, technology, politics, higher education.

    Simpler mindset vs one with the power of choice and sophistication

    How does that impact women's badminton in a whole?

    "Why sweat so much to earn this little when I can get a good job in an office with greater pay and security at the city?". Those whom cannot choose to say this due to their background and motivation will have to follow the stricter route of career and in the aspect of this topic - sports. More specifically, badminton. Apart from swimming, gynamstics, badminton,
    acrobatics, athletics, army, civil service, blue collared workers, agriculture - all for the pride of Motherland - what else is there to do?

    Are you saying that only the dumb ones indulge in sport or national security?!

    They aren't dumb - they don't have a choice. And by the way, being less educated doesn't make one dumb.

    So?

    Compared to other powerhouse countries in badminton (subjectively speaking), the pool of talent to choose from decreases dramatically. Many aren't interested in sports as a career, as mentioned above, many do it for the sake of love and passion.

    Others are interested only to muck around with a racquet and sweat during evenings, not on a daily basis as a job.

    (very) Rough Assumption (data from CIA World Factbook):

    China est population: 1,321,851,888
    1% of people play badminton: 13,218,518
    Assume 20% of the players are women: 2,643,704
    Assume 1% of the women players go through formal training: 26,437
    Assume 1% of the women players make it to the national level: 264
    Assume top 10% are sent for international/highest level training: 26

    Denmark est population: 5,468,120
    1% of people play badminton: 54,681
    Assume 20% of the players are women: 10,936
    Assume 1% of the women players go through formal training: 109
    Assume 1% of the women players make it to the national level: 1*
    Assume top 10% are sent for international/highest level training: 1*

    Indonesia est population: 234,693,997
    1% of people play badminton: 2,346,940
    Assume 20% of the players are women: 469,388
    Assume 1% of the women players go through formal training: 4694
    Assume 1% of the women players make it to the national level: 46
    Assume top 10% are sent for international/highest level training: 5

    Malaysia est population: 24,821,286
    1% of people play badminton: 248,213
    Assume 20% of the players are women:49,642
    Assume 1% of the women players go through formal training: 496
    Assume 1% of the women players go through formal training: 5
    Assume top 10% are sent for international/highest level training: 5**

    • For every 1 great player Denmark produces, she have 243 similar or equivalents from China.
    • For every 1 great player Malaysia produces, she have 53 similar or equivalents from China.
    *numerical comparison, doesn't mean only Camilla Martin played for Denmark during her time!
    ** 0.5 people?

    And all that without taking into account the cut off variables for average education levels of the respective countries, luck, family background and natural talent.

    I understand China is not as backwater as the what the above suggests but how much of China is actually as properous as Shanghai and Hong Kong?
    Last edited by wilfredlgf; 05-08-2007 at 09:20 PM.

  13. #30
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    why did we involve indonesian MS in this thread? plus all the indonesians rely on in MS is taufik. futhermore, taufik doesnt even like pbsi.

  14. #31
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    it's like asking why does Brazil football dominate in soccer game?..the answer is quite simple rite?They're simply better than the others,maybe because their intensive training,etc.

    Besides,it's their era.Indo had their own era back then..when they won in almost every competitions,open,championships.So,it's the time for china to enjoy that time as well,after some other countries took over..

  15. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by llpjlau
    why did we involve indonesian MS in this thread? plus all the indonesians rely on in MS is taufik. futhermore, taufik doesnt even like pbsi.
    Nobody really likes PBSI these days anyway,not the players,or even indo ppl...That's why lots of players moved to abroad or play in djarum league..

  16. #33
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    if Zhang ning maintains her current form for 1 more year, she would cruise to another olympic WS gold.

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    if Zhang ning maintains her current form for 1 more year, she would cruise to another olympic WS gold.
    i don't see anyone giving a threat to zhang ning except XXF. other countries are good, but simply not good enough.

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