Weird doubles tactics (so I've been told)

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by MythrilBlue, May 3, 2007.

  1. MythrilBlue

    MythrilBlue Regular Member

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    Hi everyone! I usually play doubles and I used to prefer playing back court when our team is attacking. I didn't like playing front because I never really knew what my partner was doing or where my partner was.

    After taking a few months off, I started again playing with a different group of people and I found myself in the front a lot, and I actually enjoy it! It is such an offensive position and I love pouncing on the easy short lifts or intercepting low cross-court drives. Ok, I'll get to the tactics part now :p

    Let's say a lift is made to the right corner and my partner moves back to take the shot, I move towards the T, but position myself very slightly on the right of the T. There are three kinds of stokes my partner can make; a smash, a drop, or a lift... or into the net, but that doesn't count. When it's a smash or a drop, things are usually fine. The opposition either tries to drop or lift; either way I'm at the front ready to drive back and my partner is already in the back.

    Now, let's say my partner makes a lift from the back right court straight to the opponent's back hand court. We usually move back to a side-by-side position, but because I'm diagonally receiving, I find myself staying a little behind the T and to the left of it. Again, the opponents either smashes, drops, or lifts. By being further in front, I find that smashes that come cross-court provides many opportunities to regain attack. I can drive back the shuttle because the shuttle is not so below the net. I can drop to an opening. Also, any smashes that come down the middle are usually intercepted by me because I'm slightly in front.

    I've found that when our team is receiving cross-court smashes, we tend to gain back control or win the point with the positioning I described above. However, when we are dead square-on, I found that we do not gain back control as easily.

    It makes logical sense to me the way I play front, but I've not found other people doing it, and I've been told that it's weird because I'm closer to the smash, but somehow I still manage to control the play. I don't think it's anything to do with skills more so than positioning. What do you all think?
     
  2. xt6666

    xt6666 Regular Member

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    If you partner plays a clear down the line (on the right side), both of you should move a little bit to the right and the cross court player should move a little bit in front! NOT ABSOLUTLY square! Because the cross smash travles a little bit longer, you can stand a little bit more in front...

    So you can intercept it earlier and HIGHER...

    And if you can intercept it earlier and higher, you can make better shot and so it'S quite normal, that you can more often regain attacking position.

    Another point is, that cross court smash is normaly a little bit weaker then the longline smash.

    AND: if your opponent smashes crosh court and is partner is also stand a little bit to the right, then the left side is "open".

    That's why you should normally attack longline or between you opponents and not cross court... (for about 70-80% of your strokes)


    EDIT: sorry for my english, don't get me wrong:
    If you partner plays a clear, I must leave the front court position, I mean you (if you stand cross court / on the left side) should stay a little bit more in front then your partner (perhaps one small step) and not in the middle of your side... And both of you should not stand in the middle of your "half-courts", but one step to the right... So you can cover the court much better
     
    #2 xt6666, May 4, 2007
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
  3. xt6666

    xt6666 Regular Member

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    I made a quick "picture"
     

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  4. xt6666

    xt6666 Regular Member

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    Now your opponents move into attacking position, their left (from your point of view) side is open for a fast/drive return (if the front court player is not qucik enough...)

    Hope you can see, that your (cross court) defensive position is slighty nearer to the net...
     

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  5. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    It's not a weird doubles tactic; it's standard, good positioning :)

    The crosscourt defender always moves closer in -- both forwards and towards the middle line. His partner may also move slightly farther towards the tramlines.

    This way, you are both the same distance from the smasher, even though the crosscourt defender is closer to the net. Also, you are covering the straight angles very well, so the smasher is tempted to try an extreme crosscourt angle -- a high risk shot that gives you excellent counter-attacking chances.
     
  6. xt6666

    xt6666 Regular Member

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    THX Gollum!

    Exactly what I tried to explain, but it's difficult to do it in a "foreign" language
     
  7. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

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    It's indeed 'standard'... Though watch out for smart players, if you stand too close the odd crossclear might get you, but it rarely happens....

    though I still think players should get a point deduction for clearing in mensdoubles ;)
     
  8. Dreamzz

    Dreamzz Regular Member

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    yup, not weird at all, i do that as well. in fact, i'm pretty sure everyone in my club does the same thing.
     
  9. Loppy

    Loppy Regular Member

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    Yes this tactic works if you're playing against weak opponents, because the crosscourt smashes will be weak and they probably cannot do a full-length crosscourt clear.
     
    #9 Loppy, May 4, 2007
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
  10. xt6666

    xt6666 Regular Member

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    This has nothing to do with the strength of your opponent...
     
  11. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

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    depends on how much you exadurate it...if you stand centimeters behind the T..you could be in serious trouble against a hard hitter...

    though the general idea has, indeed, nothing to do with your opponents skill
     
  12. xt6666

    xt6666 Regular Member

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    But nobody says you should stand centimeters behind the T...

    ;-)

    Just stay one step (a small step) in front...
     
  13. Dreamzz

    Dreamzz Regular Member

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    i would say that how close to the net you stay is almost directly proportional to how strong your opponent's back court play is.
     
  14. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    No, it's simple geometry.

    Your position on the court is determined by how quickly you can react to different strokes. When your opponent smashes, you have to stand far enough away from him -- not from the net, but from him -- in order to have time to react.

    Crosscourt smashes, clears, and dropshots all take longer to cross the net than straight ones. Therefore you can stand farther forward on the crosscourt angle.

    It doesn't matter how powerful your opponent's smash is: his crosscourt smash will always (ceteris paribus) be slower than his straight smash, because it has farther to travel.

    If an opponent has a weak smash, then both defenders can move closer. If he has a strong smash, then both defenders should respect it and back off. But the crosscourt defender should still be closer to the net (assuming the same defending abilities/reaction times).
     
  15. xt6666

    xt6666 Regular Member

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    Does someone has a programm to make such "tactics" like I did at the beginning of the post?

    Perhaps a little flash program oder Excel?
     
  16. foo.tw

    foo.tw Regular Member

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    It really depends on your opponent. If he's good enough to do fast fast smash on the line, it will be very hard for you to defend standing at that position. Also, he can simply make a flick shot down the front-left. Cross-court flat-clear is also dangerous for your parter to cover your side. Below is what I usually do at this position. [​IMG]He can also make a fake drop and flat-clear to you partner's backcourt when he is moving forward.( Generally I don't do this, cause U have to consider different player's movement speed)
     
    #16 foo.tw, May 6, 2007
    Last edited: May 6, 2007
  17. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

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    in short, if he's good enough...every shot is difficult...

    the idea behind it is: How likely is your opponent to see you're standing in the center? and if he does the crossocurt netshot, it's either gonna be reachable or slow...and the ever 55% chance of faillure..

    if you're going to be afraid of every possible shot he could make you'll end up standing in the center of "your half" not helping your buddy...
    (Doubles)Positioning is abotu covering all the most likely/fast replies, but still minding the others
     
  18. foo.tw

    foo.tw Regular Member

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    If your opponent is that bad, why should you help your partner? He win the game 1 on 2 .
     
  19. foo.tw

    foo.tw Regular Member

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    For you second question, how can he see your position, a good player can make shots without looking at the shuttle until the last moment( even without an eye in some position). What is he doing when he is not looking at the shuttle?
     
  20. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Exactly.

    You cover the straight shots because they are the fastest ones.

    The crosscourt shots are slower, so you have more time.

    Lee Jae Bok has a very perceptive way of thinking about positioning. He says that your body should be ready for the straight shot, but your mind should be ready for the crosscourt shot.

    The point here is that crosscourt shots can be hard to "read" or "see", so you should watch out for them -- but your position should still be biased for the straight shot, which is easier to "see" but comes faster.

    Also, it can be harder to judge the point of contact for a crosscourt shot, because it is passing across your direction rather than coming straight at you.
     

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