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  1. #35
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    Ok, now I'm tired of that ********!
    I have had enough of all the people out there always discrediting players that use nylon shuttles. Sorry if I don't have as much money as you do!

    Hi, I currently play in Quebec, Canada and I am ranked B Senior, which means I have to use plastic (nylon by the way) shuttles in my tournaments. It is also nylon shuttles that are used in my college league. But I used to play with feathers in my last junior years and I use feather shuttles from time to time to play a match here and there, but I find them to be quite expensive. So, basically, I know what I am talking about (see the following paragraphs).

    First of all, I would like to point out that when you try to argue about plastic vs feather shuttles, you should not use comments like: "plastic suxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.." or something that says "I always use feather and have not played with nylon in years because it sucks." because it only shows how much of an idiot you are.

    Good, now that we have eliminated half of the responses in this thread, I can go on with my arguing as well.

    1) Playing with plastic shuttles does NOT cause shoulder, elbow or any kind or any injury that playing with feather shuttles won't. Why? Because whatever you hit that has the same "speed capacity" and similar weight will travel the same distance when you use the same technique. If you have experienced injuries while playing only with plastic shuttles, it is probably from one of those (or both) reasons: - You played with a ridiculously slow nylon shuttle and had to hit a lot harder (speed problem, not material) or - You don't use the same technique when playing with plastic (which probably means you are a total idiot). And please don't answer something like "But, plastic shuttles cause more vibration in your racket." because this will translate into: "I had too much lead or mercury in my food during childhood." (means you are stupid).

    2) It is true that when using plastic shuttles, smashes become more dangerous (but only at very high speeds, around 200 km/h and +: that's the kind of speed needed to deform the nylon enough to create acceleration). I have heard so much of stupid comments like: "A plastic match is only a smash contest." It is when I hear or read similar things that I am ashamed to be part of the same specie than the one saying or writing it. IF SMASHES ARE MORE DANGEROUS, THEN JUST DON'T GIVE THE ATTACK SO EASILY, YOU ST*P*D F*CK! Sorry, it had to come out... It's just, it does seem obvious, no?

    3) It is true that plastic shuttles don't have the same feeling on certain net shots and especially on sliced and "cut?" ("coupé" in French) shots. That different feeling is mainly caused by the lack of rigidity of the nylon "feathers" (I am not sure why, but it also seems that a sliced nylon shot will slow down faster than a sliced feather shot. I think it's about the weight of the shuttles.). But, I keep hearing all those babies crying and bitching about this "phenomenon" and I just can't understand what's the problem. Both (or all four) players play with the same shuttle... They have the same advantages and disadvantages, no? I still don't see what gives it's "superiority" to the feather shuttlecock then.

    Even if I could go on and on destroying stupid arguments, I will have to conclude on this:

    4) Plastic, feathers... Even if it changes some tactical and little technical aspects of a game, badminton is badminton. The point of the game is hitting the bird where your opponent won't be able to hit it back so you can make points and win the match.

    What's the next step? Having a thread discrediting players that uses rackets weighting below 80g because you can't smash as hard than with a 85g racket?
    Last edited by Gabriyel; 09-29-2007 at 01:35 AM. Reason: grammar

  2. #36
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    Plastic Shuttles were my best friends when i was a kind. They kind of boost your ego too! Just a slight knock...wheeeee...

  3. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriyel View Post
    Ok, now I'm tired of that ********!
    I have had enough of all the people out there always discrediting players that use nylon shuttles. Sorry if I don't have as much money as you do!

    Hi, I currently play in Quebec, Canada and I am ranked B Senior, which means I have to use plastic (nylon by the way) shuttles in my tournaments. It is also nylon shuttles that are used in my college league. But I used to play with feathers in my last junior years and I use feather shuttles from time to time to play a match here and there, but I find them to be quite expensive. So, basically, I know what I am talking about (see the following paragraphs).

    First of all, I would like to point out that when you try to argue about plastic vs feather shuttles, you should not use comments like: "plastic suxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.." or something that says "I always use feather and have not played with nylon in years because it sucks." because it only shows how much of an idiot you are.

    Good, now that we have eliminated half of the responses in this thread, I can go on with my arguing as well.

    1) Playing with plastic shuttles does NOT cause shoulder, elbow or any kind or any injury that playing with feather shuttles won't. Why? Because whatever you hit that has the same "speed capacity" and similar weight will travel the same distance when you use the same technique. If you have experienced injuries while playing only with plastic shuttles, it is probably from one of those (or both) reasons: - You played with a ridiculously slow nylon shuttle and had to hit a lot harder (speed problem, not material) or - You don't use the same technique when playing with plastic (which probably means you are a total idiot). And please don't answer something like "But, plastic shuttles cause more vibration in your racket." because this will translate into: "I had too much lead or mercury in my food during childhood." (means you are stupid).

    2) It is true that when using plastic shuttles, smashes become more dangerous (but only at very high speeds, around 200 km/h and +: that's the kind of speed needed to deform the nylon enough to create acceleration). I have heard so much of stupid comments like: "A plastic match is only a smash contest." It is when I hear or read similar things that I am ashamed to be part of the same specie than the one saying or writing it. IF SMASHES ARE MORE DANGEROUS, THEN JUST DON'T GIVE THE ATTACK SO EASILY, YOU ST*P*D F*CK! Sorry, it had to come out... It's just, it does seem obvious, no?

    3) It is true that plastic shuttles don't have the same feeling on certain net shots and especially on sliced and "cut?" ("coupé" in French) shots. That different feeling is mainly caused by the lack of rigidity of the nylon "feathers" (I am not sure why, but it also seems that a sliced nylon shot will slow down faster than a sliced feather shot. I think it's about the weight of the shuttles.). But, I keep hearing all those babies crying and bitching about this "phenomenon" and I just can't understand what's the problem. Both (or all four) players play with the same shuttle... They have the same advantages and disadvantages, no? I still don't see what gives it's "superiority" to the feather shuttlecock then.

    Even if I could go on and on destroying stupid arguments, I will have to conclude on this:

    4) Plastic, feathers... Even if it changes some tactical and little technical aspects of a game, badminton is badminton. The point of the game is hitting the bird where your opponent won't be able to hit it back so you can make points and win the match.

    What's the next step? Having a thread discrediting players that uses rackets weighting below 80g because you can't smash as hard than with a 85g racket?
    hehe, u should read my old posts on this plastic vs feather topic sometime
    i play both because i just love badminton. I believe good nylon shuttles are good enough for me to have competitive fun in badminton. Each kind of shuttle have their own unique characteristic and good players should able to adjust to those what i see as minor differences. I find nylons are harder to play because it is harder to control. It is i think why most people prefer feather, it is a less harsher object to hit and easier to control. On your point #2, i did suggested 'don't lift so much' but one poster here took that personally...
    I think it boil down to human nature, we don't like changes to something we have gotten use to, be it plastic or feather shuttle to global warming.

  4. #38
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    Plastics are okay, but for technique, feathers are the way to go, cause hitting the feathers in a stroke will punish bad technique, but if you want to play, both are good choices.

  5. #39
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    I agree an partially agee. Using feathers are really expensive because they can break easily. (not to mention all the feathers on the ground). So i say, use plastics for schools or other community centre drop ins so there wont be a mess, but feathers are good in clubs where they have significantly more money to purchase them.

  6. #40
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    Gabriyel's post pretty much sums it all up... plastics are used by me more often just because of the durability and cost.

  7. #41
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    I do not really like plastic. I hated it in high school, I still prefered feather back then. My shoulder at times feels like its goin to fly off when i play with plastic because it makes me want to hit even harder because plastic i can not control like feather. Even though there is the cost and durability, i still purchase feather and keep old feathers that aren't too messed up to practice with, good way to save money. But im pretty sure everyone does that and still doesn't save a whole lot.

  8. #42
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    What's with this hate thread? Most people who played plastic didn't really choose to play plastic but rather forced by circumstances social or economic. Or maybe they started out playing plastic and never really have any other comparison. Anyway, this thread is going nowhere...

  9. #43
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    I am with Cappy75 on this debate. This thread should be closed or locked.

  10. #44
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    Yea, NCS shuttle is Mavis 350, so i use plastic alot. BUt i still prefer feather shuttles...(i bring a tube of each wherever I go, and I like the feathers more, but for fun, plastics are cheaper.

  11. #45
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    Feather and plastic...I like using plastic once in a while for durability (I'm cheap), but in a real game, feather is a MUST!

    Why I dislike plastic...hm...
    It just doesn't feel right.

  12. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElinOng0 View Post
    Feather and plastic...I like using plastic once in a while for durability (I'm cheap), but in a real game, feather is a MUST!

    Why I dislike plastic...hm...
    It just doesn't feel right.
    hahaha, yup, i know many who dislike rubbers too for the same reason

  13. #47
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    I play high school badminton for CCS and such. I find that most high schoolers that take the sport seriously use feather during the off season for training and plastic during the season because the two birds play differently. Honestly plastics are a must for the beginners because they haven't either built up the strength or they haven't the right form. I agree with cappy75 and I'm half and half on this topic.

  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75 View Post
    What's with this hate thread? Most people who played plastic didn't really choose to play plastic but rather forced by circumstances social or economic. Or maybe they started out playing plastic and never really have any other comparison. Anyway, this thread is going nowhere...
    Looking at the badminton scene, it seems pretty much the opposite.. playing with bad plastic shuttles seems much more common in rich countries like USA, Canada, Sweden, Germany, Noway, Finland etc etc.. So I really don't think the major part is economic! I think it is more a mental thing on how you view the game.. If you view it as a competetive sport, you want to use top-level equipment, then you are more likely to use "real" shuttles.. If you view it just as an "excersise" or backyard game, then you are are probably igonarant enough to not even recognize the differences between todays plastic-shuttles and natural goose feather shuttles :-)
    Thats why I think countries with high-level of "badminton-culture" mostly uses real feather, even though they may have a tougher time affording the game..

    /Twobeer

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    Actually when I said economic, I didn't mean it on a national scale. In a country that is relatively rich but doesn't focus development on badminton much, Canada does not have many proper badminton-only facilities because there isn't enough public impetus to provide more courts. Why build more badminton courts when there's more demand for ball-hockey, indoor soccer, basketball, etc. Group sports which could accommodate more people than badminton will ever could per sq. feet. It's only in the few major cities that will see municipalities and private investors put in money to build/maintain and start up any badminton facilities.

    Also, looking from a recreational management coordination point of view, it's cheaper (more economical) for a multi-purpose facility/private club to provide plastic shuttles to the general public than feathers due to its durability and cost. Most clubs I have been to are recreational clubs that rent courts out of highschool gyms. They usually don't have the budget for feathers. And like you said, only serious players play with feathers. Well, there's not as much serious players here in Canada compared other more badminton established countries.

    Twobeer, I think you got me wrong here. I would challenge you to stay in one of our smaller cities and try to find a place/group that plays with feathers regularly. Badminton gets more expensive the further east you go.

    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Looking at the badminton scene, it seems pretty much the opposite.. playing with bad plastic shuttles seems much more common in rich countries like USA, Canada, Sweden, Germany, Noway, Finland etc etc.. So I really don't think the major part is economic! I think it is more a mental thing on how you view the game.. If you view it as a competetive sport, you want to use top-level equipment, then you are more likely to use "real" shuttles.. If you view it just as an "excersise" or backyard game, then you are are probably igonarant enough to not even recognize the differences between todays plastic-shuttles and natural goose feather shuttles :-)
    Thats why I think countries with high-level of "badminton-culture" mostly uses real feather, even though they may have a tougher time affording the game..

    /Twobeer

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    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75 View Post
    Actually when I said economic, I didn't mean it on a national scale. In a country that is relatively rich but doesn't focus development on badminton much, Canada does not have many proper badminton-only facilities because there isn't enough public impetus to provide more courts. Why build more badminton courts when there's more demand for ball-hockey, indoor soccer, basketball, etc. Group sports which could accommodate more people than badminton will ever could per sq. feet. It's only in the few major cities that will see municipalities and private investors put in money to build/maintain and start up any badminton facilities.

    Also, looking from a recreational management coordination point of view, it's cheaper (more economical) for a multi-purpose facility/private club to provide plastic shuttles to the general public than feathers due to its durability and cost. Most clubs I have been to are recreational clubs that rent courts out of highschool gyms. They usually don't have the budget for feathers. And like you said, only serious players play with feathers. Well, there's not as much serious players here in Canada compared other more badminton established countries.

    Twobeer, I think you got me wrong here. I would challenge you to stay in one of our smaller cities and try to find a place/group that plays with feathers regularly. Badminton gets more expensive the further east you go.
    Well I think what you write just reinforces the point I was trying to make. If the game isn't popular enough to have proper courts, equipment and clubs and there are very few players.. There will not be a high-demand for proper shuttles :-( .

    There is also the issue, as I understand it in parts of Canada, that high-altitudes makes it very hard to obtain slow enough shuttles to get proper speed.

    But for anyone serious about the game I am sure ordering a pack of tubes on the internet with correct speed and of decent quality would be both economical feasible. The cost/price difference to plastic is not THAT huge!!!

    At least I would if i lived further east in Canada

    One example is a place I used to play where the shop only had plastics.. But when more and more people brought their own shuttles. The shop owner soon realized that he was loosing money from not selling goose-shuttles at an ok price.. So after a while he started selling more feathers, and made more money from that, so everyone was happy :-)

    What really bugs me off, is when people complain about the "price" of using real-shuttles and then buy a new top-end Yonex racket every few months or so .. They are of course free to buy the most expensive rackets, but it makes it obvious to me that they at least could "afford" good shuttles if they wanted to.. And Using a top-end Yonex strung at 17 lbs or so with ti-65 (factory strining) playing plastics.. is like buying a Porce 911 for a demolition derby

    /Twobeer

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    Everybody has a limit on how much they're willing to spend on their passion, even serious badminton players. So I won't be surprise if players move over to other sports due to high cost. Unfortunately, there's alot going against feather usage in Canada. The cost/price between plastic and feathers might not be as much, but you have to use alot more feathers in games depending on where you live as some areas are really dry.

    In addition with China's own hot domestic economy, we are facing increasing competition for shuttles from China's own domestic market as more people are taking up badminton over there. Sometimes there's just not enough supply to meet the demand. As a result, we are facing the possibility that we might not even be able to purchase shuttle even if we have the money to get them.

    IMO, the main barrier of entry into serious badminton for Canadians is still the lack of proper facilities. In most parts of Canada, One would be hard pressed to find a nice place with the right crowd. One common baddy scene would be a weekly drop-in to a crowded highschool gym accommodating players of a wide range of skills with nobody over intermediate level. All shuttles used would be plastic, of course.

    Granted that playing with plastic may not be the same as playing with feathers, it's still badminton in its most diluted form (Speedminton doesn't count).


    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Well I think what you write just reinforces the point I was trying to make. If the game isn't popular enough to have proper courts, equipment and clubs and there are very few players.. There will not be a high-demand for proper shuttles :-( .

    There is also the issue, as I understand it in parts of Canada, that high-altitudes makes it very hard to obtain slow enough shuttles to get proper speed.

    But for anyone serious about the game I am sure ordering a pack of tubes on the internet with correct speed and of decent quality would be both economical feasible. The cost/price difference to plastic is not THAT huge!!!

    At least I would if i lived further east in Canada

    One example is a place I used to play where the shop only had plastics.. But when more and more people brought their own shuttles. The shop owner soon realized that he was loosing money from not selling goose-shuttles at an ok price.. So after a while he started selling more feathers, and made more money from that, so everyone was happy :-)

    What really bugs me off, is when people complain about the "price" of using real-shuttles and then buy a new top-end Yonex racket every few months or so .. They are of course free to buy the most expensive rackets, but it makes it obvious to me that they at least could "afford" good shuttles if they wanted to.. And Using a top-end Yonex strung at 17 lbs or so with ti-65 (factory strining) playing plastics.. is like buying a Porce 911 for a demolition derby

    /Twobeer

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