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  1. #52
    Moderator drifit's Avatar
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    dont hate it.... just dislike it
    i play badminton with plastic shuttle when i was age 6-11.
    after that, feather shuttle until now and till i retired from badminton.....

  2. #53
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    I am happy that people start playing badminton, whatever shuttles they start off with!

    Its much better that they use nylon shuttles than not play at all!!

    But I see this as a great opportunity to really "educate" them on the game, and introduce them to "real" shuttles.. I find that most people quickly realize the game is so much more fun using better shuttles!

    It's Like DVD or HDTV vs. old broadcast-TV... Once you tasted something better its so much harder to go back.. If you never used better thing you may be satisfied anyway :-)

    /twobeer

  3. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75 View Post
    ... Most people who played plastic didn't really choose to play plastic but rather forced by circumstances social or economic. Or maybe they started out playing plastic and never really have any other comparison...
    i think most, if not all people would agree that if money was not an issue, feathers would be chosen 100% of the time over nylons. Most people who play with nylons just arent able to play with feathers

  4. #55
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    My 2 cents worth:
    Feather shuttles might be around for a few more years as the supply of good feathers is shrinking due to the flu epidemic. I just received a letter from Winex stating that they have applied for patents for their plastic shuttles in Japan, the US and Thailand plus they have approval for their patents in Taiwan & China. It was described to me as very similar to feathers in feel and sound and obviously has applied to the IBF/WBF for approval.

    Hopefully I will be able to get a sample to try out pretty soon.

  5. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winex West Can View Post
    My 2 cents worth:
    Feather shuttles might be around for a few more years as the supply of good feathers is shrinking due to the flu epidemic. I just received a letter from Winex stating that they have applied for patents for their plastic shuttles in Japan, the US and Thailand plus they have approval for their patents in Taiwan & China. It was described to me as very similar to feathers in feel and sound and obviously has applied to the IBF/WBF for approval.

    Hopefully I will be able to get a sample to try out pretty soon.
    i hope their claim is right because carlton and prince's new plastic shuttle that feel like feathers didn't even it pass 1 year in the market.

  6. #57
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    i don't mind using plastic.
    most of the time, the people i'm playing with will use plastics for everything. drills, games, anything.
    for a while prior to tournaments, we'll switch it to feathers.
    then we all complain for a week after the tournament saying how its easier to switch from plastic to feathers, than it is the other way around.

  7. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winex West Can View Post
    It was described to me as very similar to feathers in feel and sound and obviously has applied to the IBF/WBF for approval.

    Hopefully I will be able to get a sample to try out pretty soon.
    Lets hope its a good shuttle!! But we heard the story so many times.. This new plastic is soo much better and flies much closer to a natural-feather shuttel.. only to be utterly dissapointed when reality hits us :-)

    But with todays technology, I would figure it would be possible to at least produce soemthing that is OK (unlike Yonex crappy Mavis shuttles!!)

    /Twobeer

  8. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Lets hope its a good shuttle!! But we heard the story so many times.. This new plastic is soo much better and flies much closer to a natural-feather shuttel.. only to be utterly dissapointed when reality hits us :-)

    But with todays technology, I would figure it would be possible to at least produce soemthing that is OK (unlike Yonex crappy Mavis shuttles!!)

    /Twobeer
    now now, be nice to those plastic birdies

  9. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winex West Can View Post
    My 2 cents worth:
    Feather shuttles might be around for a few more years as the supply of good feathers is shrinking due to the flu epidemic. I just received a letter from Winex stating that they have applied for patents for their plastic shuttles in Japan, the US and Thailand plus they have approval for their patents in Taiwan & China. It was described to me as very similar to feathers in feel and sound and obviously has applied to the IBF/WBF for approval.

    Hopefully I will be able to get a sample to try out pretty soon.
    I will jump for joy if that ever happen. However, I am not holding my breath for that claim. Just like many tennis string claim to be good as natural guts, I still have yet to see one.

  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    now now, be nice to those plastic birdies
    I am really really nice to them.. I never hit them

    /Twobeer

  11. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriyel View Post
    Both (or all four) players play with the same shuttle... They have the same advantages and disadvantages, no?
    It's true that both (or all 4) players using the same shuttle, but the point is not "who takes advantage", but rather than "not as great or as proper game equipment" might reduce the fun of the sport.

    Put in an extreme case, do you want to use a metal square box as the ball in a soccer game? Do you want to use a piece of rock on the street as the ball for a baseball game? Do you want a needle shaped sticked instead of a puck for hockey??? You can still claim "hey, both sides facing the same advantage / disadvantage due to equipment change", but do you think such "modifications" should be accepted???

  12. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriyel View Post

    2) It is true that when using plastic shuttles, smashes become more dangerous (but only at very high speeds, around 200 km/h and +: that's the kind of speed needed to deform the nylon enough to create acceleration). I have heard so much of stupid comments like: "A plastic match is only a smash contest." It is when I hear or read similar things that I am ashamed to be part of the same specie than the one saying or writing it. IF SMASHES ARE MORE DANGEROUS, THEN JUST DON'T GIVE THE ATTACK SO EASILY, YOU ST*P*D F*CK! Sorry, it had to come out... It's just, it does seem obvious, no?

    1st, respect other ppl's comments, whether you agree or dis-agree. Even if they obviously make a mistake, no need to use "F" or "S" word. Even if I am really an "idiot" as you claimed, there's no need for you to point it out in the public.

    2nd, I don't know where your 200km/h number coming from. Myself is never considered as a powerful smasher, but there's more than once (in my earlier yrs), I can deform a plastic shuttle, and make it fly like bullet. After picking up the shuttle, you can see the skirt is folded, which cause the unbelievable speed. We usually re-play the point due to the incident. I agree that happens more often with a well-used plastic shuttle, but it's definitely happening with a noticeable rate. Most the plastics we used before, are Yonex Mavis 300/350, which are much better than a lot of other plastics in the market already.

    3rd, it's absolutely impossible to avoid giving up attack. Not in club level, not in regional level, not even in international level. Using plastic shuttles, making is less of a chance to return the smash, which is truely a disadvantage for defensive type of players.
    3.1 - Why don't you make the soccer goal to be 5x as wide as it suppose to be? Once the goalie complain about giving up a goal, simply let him curse his teammates "hey, why can't you guys NOT let the other team ever shot on goal???"

  13. #64
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    "2nd, I don't know where your 200km/h number coming from. Myself is never considered as a powerful smasher, but there's more than once (in my earlier yrs), I can deform a plastic shuttle, and make it fly like bullet. After picking up the shuttle, you can see the skirt is folded, which cause the unbelievable speed. We usually re-play the point due to the incident. I agree that happens more often with a well-used plastic shuttle, but it's definitely happening with a noticeable rate. Most the plastics we used before, are Yonex Mavis 300/350, which are much better than a lot of other plastics in the market already."

    The speed cant be an argument!
    Do you have played with the green Mavis 350? They arent fast at all, they are the same speed like yonex as 30 in the speed "3" or a bit slower.

    And of course you must change even an plastic shuttle after an hour or so, you will change a feather too when is frayed!

    The biggest problem with plastic is netplay, tumbling is not so good, i think mainly because plastics tumbles longer than feather, the balance point of the plastics is quite different. But i have seen that good players can master this tumbling even with plastics really good, soo in the end is just the skill.

    And that you have just from 3 speeds to choose.

  14. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdbc74 View Post
    "2nd, I don't know where your 200km/h number coming from. Myself is never considered as a powerful smasher, but there's more than once (in my earlier yrs), I can deform a plastic shuttle, and make it fly like bullet. After picking up the shuttle, you can see the skirt is folded, which cause the unbelievable speed. We usually re-play the point due to the incident. I agree that happens more often with a well-used plastic shuttle, but it's definitely happening with a noticeable rate. Most the plastics we used before, are Yonex Mavis 300/350, which are much better than a lot of other plastics in the market already."

    The speed cant be an argument!
    Do you have played with the green Mavis 350? They arent fast at all, they are the same speed like yonex as 30 in the speed "3" or a bit slower.

    And of course you must change even an plastic shuttle after an hour or so, you will change a feather too when is frayed!

    The biggest problem with plastic is netplay, tumbling is not so good, i think mainly because plastics tumbles longer than feather, the balance point of the plastics is quite different. But i have seen that good players can master this tumbling even with plastics really good, soo in the end is just the skill.

    And that you have just from 3 speeds to choose.

    Beating a dead horse.. (cooler and I and many has been down the path before :-) )..

    The flight pattern and feel are just way different.. All shots (lifts, flicks, tumples, drops etc wil get a different trajectory as the balance and air-properties are different even on the best plastic shuttles.

    If you use a proper speed (using the law 3 of badminton to test shuttle speeds).. The smash using a plastic shuttle will be MUCH harder (as the plastic slows down less, and the air-resistance does fold the shirt, slightly or very much dependent on the speed of the smash.

    /Twobeer

  15. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Beating a dead horse.. (cooler and I and many has been down the path before :-) )..

    The flight pattern and feel are just way different.. All shots (lifts, flicks, tumples, drops etc wil get a different trajectory as the balance and air-properties are different even on the best plastic shuttles.

    If you use a proper speed (using the law 3 of badminton to test shuttle speeds).. The smash using a plastic shuttle will be MUCH harder (as the plastic slows down less, and the air-resistance does fold the shirt, slightly or very much dependent on the speed of the smash.

    /Twobeer
    Yes, the flight-curve is different, but not that much. And yonex as 30 and victor champion are quite different too, yonex has a more flat flight i think.

    For smashing: it must be very, very hot, maybe more than 28C before you can smash that hard with the slow green yonex. BUT you have to use new ones, after half an hour of hard hitting they begin to go faster and faster. After an hour or so they are too fast, even when the plastic is not frayed at all.

    At first i think too, that feather slow down faster, but then why it is harder to clear with plastics then with feather (by similar speed)? I think plastics (with correct speed) stops more uneven and quite sudden (or we are slicing too much), and this is why is more pleasant to play with feather.

    I like feather more but i find it very annoying that this crispy nice feeling from a new feather will dont last more than 5 minutes per shuttle, even you can play a lot longer with it, the feeling and sound are after that not more so impressive. Most of us cant change the shuttles like Taufik, after every 2-3 rallyes

  16. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdbc74 View Post
    But i have seen that good players can master this tumbling even with plastics really good, soo in the end is just the skill.

    Well, I understand the skill is the key for any sports, and practice can make anything perfect.

    However, how much do you want to keep "re-shape" your skill, just to fit in the "not as great" equipment" for the game? If the modification is too much, you've already killed the fun and changed the game in a unnecessary degree.

    If I practice enough, I might be able to make a ninja star tumbling over the net. However, just because I can master the skill, do you think we should sub. ninja stars for shuttles?
    Last edited by LazyBuddy; 10-04-2007 at 07:32 AM.

  17. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdbc74 View Post
    Yes, the flight-curve is different, but not that much. And yonex as 30 and victor champion are quite different too, yonex has a more flat flight i think.
    Well I beg to differ. The difference in flight on a Victor Champion and a AS-30 is minimal, and given they are the same speed, its very small differences in timing, characteristics.

    The difference compared to for example a Mavis 350 is a chasm!!! It's Huge!!


    Quote Originally Posted by bdbc74 View Post
    For smashing: it must be very, very hot, maybe more than 28C before you can smash that hard with the slow green yonex. BUT you have to use new ones, after half an hour of hard hitting they begin to go faster and faster. After an hour or so they are too fast, even when the plastic is not frayed at all.
    Green mavis are not even sold in my country. Even the blue ones are generally to slow.. (it also seems to vary from batch to batch).. When I test the blue ones they usually go one meters short (much slower) than a 78 speed feather shuttle. But when smashing the speed does not seem to decline, so even very poor flat smashes are usually super-effective.
    SO to sum up its to slow for base-line to baseline clearnce and to fast for "downwards" shots...

    Quote Originally Posted by bdbc74 View Post
    At first i think too, that feather slow down faster, but then why it is harder to clear with plastics then with feather (by similar speed)? I think plastics (with correct speed) stops more uneven and quite sudden (or we are slicing too much), and this is why is more pleasant to play with feather.
    I belevie the reason for it to be to slow at clearing and to fast at smashing, is explained by the bad trajectory.. as it will be a more constant speed all the way form hitting the racket to hitting the ground... Thus if you make it correct speed for clearing, the smash will not have time to "slow down" and be ridicilously fast when hitting the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdbc74 View Post
    I like feather more but i find it very annoying that this crispy nice feeling from a new feather will dont last more than 5 minutes per shuttle, even you can play a lot longer with it, the feeling and sound are after that not more so impressive. Most of us cant change the shuttles like Taufik, after every 2-3 rallyes
    Yea.. its true.. We all hate having to frequently switch shuttles.. I think buy using good feathers and make sure they are in good condition, a feather should at least be OK for half a set at least (if its not miss-hit directrly on the feathers etc).. At least thats my experience.. 5 minutes seems very short!! And lots of times Taufik and the guys also replace their shuttles for "psycologial or "getting that extra breath" petwwen points '...

    /Twobeer

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