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  1. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    Well, I understand the skill is the key for any sports, and practice can make anything perfect.

    However, how much do you want to keep "re-shape" your skill, just to fit in the "not as great" equipment" for the game? If the modification is too much, you've already killed the fun and changed the game in a unnecessary degree.

    If I practice enough, I might be able to make a ninja star tumbling over the net. However, just because I can master the skill, do you think we should sub. ninja stars for shuttles?
    But It could lead to a radical new meaning of a "deadly smash"

    /Twobeer

  2. #70
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    I prefer feathers by far but i don't think plastics are that bad. I use them for training due to , cost and durability. I don't find it difficult to switch from plastics to feathers.

    Mp 88

  3. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    Well, I understand the skill is the key for any sports, and practice can make anything perfect.

    However, how much do you want to keep "re-shape" your skill, just to fit in the "not as great" equipment" for the game? If the modification is too much, you've already killed the fun and changed the game in a unnecessary degree.

    If I practice enough, I might be able to make a ninja star tumbling over the net. However, just because I can master the skill, do you think we should sub. ninja stars for shuttles?

    I would say that a plastic and a ninja star are a little bit different, not so easy to compare

    But you are right, you have to play regularly with plastics to maintain such a good feeling for it.

  4. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Well I beg to differ. The difference in flight on a Victor Champion and a AS-30 is minimal, and given they are the same speed, its very small differences in timing, characteristics.

    The difference compared to for example a Mavis 350 is a chasm!!! It's Huge!!

    Green mavis are not even sold in my country. Even the blue ones are generally to slow.. (it also seems to vary from batch to batch).. When I test the blue ones they usually go one meters short (much slower) than a 78 speed feather shuttle. But when smashing the speed does not seem to decline, so even very poor flat smashes are usually super-effective.
    SO to sum up its to slow for base-line to baseline clearnce and to fast for "downwards" shots...

    /Twobeer
    I play in a club most of the time with victor champíon 78 and sometimes with as 30 speed "3". Well before a normal game we are testing the shuttles and the yonex ones are flying 30 to 40 centimeters longer than the victor. We have to tip every 2. feather.

    In germany the blue mavis 350 is most of the time too fast and absolut faster then a 78 feather even for clears.

    One nice thing about plastics is, that almost everybody can smash a lot and for doubles this can be real fun, you could have a crazy fast game and is a good training for defence-reflexes.

    The negative site is that most of the people that play just with plastics cant play so good with feather, the timing is too different, i think its much easier to switch from feather to plastics than the other way.
    Last edited by bdbc74; 10-04-2007 at 10:46 AM.

  5. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post

    Green mavis are not even sold in my country. Even the blue ones are generally to slow.. (it also seems to vary from batch to batch).. When I test the blue ones they usually go one meters short (much slower) than a 78 speed feather shuttle. But when smashing the speed does not seem to decline, so even very poor flat smashes are usually super-effective.
    SO to sum up its to slow for base-line to baseline clearnce and to fast for "downwards" shots...

    I belevie the reason for it to be to slow at clearing and to fast at smashing, is explained by the bad trajectory.. as it will be a more constant speed all the way form hitting the racket to hitting the ground... Thus if you make it correct speed for clearing, the smash will not have time to "slow down" and be ridicilously fast when hitting the ground.

    I agree. This further prove my point of using shuttle give defense style player a default dis-advantage to begin with. This could be even more significant for fast paced MD games.

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdbc74 View Post
    I would say that a plastic and a ninja star are a little bit different, not so easy to compare
    Yes, I was using an extreme case to show my point.

    My point is, different players have his/her own standard about "how much change i am willing to accept". Therefore, if someone does not mind to sacrifice the game play, but focus on $$$, it's alright to play with nylon shuttles (for current product standard). However, many others don't mind to pay a bit extra, to use the proper equipment, to enjoy every bit of the sport, then, feather could be a better choice.

  7. #75
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    Reading this thread, and see the main debate is the durability vs. $$$. However, I did some quick calculation, and find out the difference in $$$ is very much affordable. I am using US market in my comparison, and I understand in different regions, the price can vary, therefore, it might not reflect every single case.

    1. Feather: $12-16 per tube (12), for decent club/tournament level of shuttles. If bulk order among friends, even cheaper.

    2. Nylon (Yonex Mavis 300/350): $9-10 per 6 shuttles.

    3. Standard session duration: 2 hours.

    4. Number of players: 4 - say, book a court

    Here's the shuttle cost per above configuration:

    1. Feather: 1.5 shuttles per game, and 2 hrs is about 8-10 games. 12 - 15 shuttles, cost = US$15 - 18, cost per person = $4

    2. Nylon: 2 - 3 shuttles for entire session, if you don't want to see the super bullet, better change a shuttle after 3-5 competitive games. cost = US$3 - 5, cost per person = $1

    So, if you play such a session, and equally share shuttle cost among friends, you pay US$3 extra per session. Say you play 3 times a week, that's US$9. I am sure we can save $9 per week, which means just go to KFC 1 less time. Or, simply save up 3-4 ice cream in the summer. Or, replace 5-6 bottle of Gatorade with water, or, get a part time job, and work for 1-2 hrs more. By doing so, you can enjoy more in the game itself. I know it's easier for working ppl than the students, but still within the do-able range.

    Of course, the key is to get everyone within your group understand, to evenly distribute the cost for shuttles. If the cost lay on just 1 or 2 person, that's a totally different story.

  8. #76
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    Totally agree with LB. It is what you enjoy more and what you are welling to give up. By eating out 2x less a week, you save the money for feather shuttle. Also people has the wrong idea that plastic shuttle do not die (or a lot longer than actual life). Additionally, if Yonex can make plastic shuttle that cost less than feather and play like feather shuttle, don't you think they would have done it already and make a lot more money?
    It is not we hate plastic shuttle, it's we like it a lot less.

  9. #77
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    Thumbs down We like plastic a lot less.

    Toally agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    Totally agree with LB. It is what you enjoy more and what you are welling to give up. By eating out 2x less a week, you save the money for feather shuttle. Also people has the wrong idea that plastic shuttle do not die (or a lot longer than actual life). Additionally, if Yonex can make plastic shuttle that cost less than feather and play like feather shuttle, don't you think they would have done it already and make a lot more money?
    It is not we hate plastic shuttle, it's we like it a lot less.

  10. #78
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    As LB mentioned, the key is to evenly distribute the cost for feather shuttles. In my playing group, we make a collection for shuttles and use the money to buy them in bulk. It ends up costing us around $1.50 per person per 2-hour playing session. That's peanuts considering each person has to pay $5-6 to cover court rental.

  11. #79
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    Feathers - The Way It's Meant To Be Played

    (used Nvidia's motto!)

  12. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedro22 View Post
    the key is to evenly distribute the cost for feather shuttles. In my playing group, we make a collection for shuttles and use the money to buy them in bulk. It ends up costing us around $1.50 per person per 2-hour playing session. That's peanuts considering each person has to pay $5-6 to cover court rental.

    Yes. If evenly divide up within the group, the cost compare to court rental / gym access is minimal.

    Here in NY, we can pay up to US$20+ per session just to enter the gym and play. The extra US$3-5 to upgrade to feather is a no brainer.

  13. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    Also people has the wrong idea that plastic shuttle do not die (or a lot longer than actual life).
    The plastic shuttles don't die, but the rally do, in a much faster way. Of course, the fun gone with wind as well.

  14. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    Reading this thread, and see the main debate is the durability vs. $$$. However, I did some quick calculation, and find out the difference in $$$ is very much affordable. I am using US market in my comparison, and I understand in different regions, the price can vary, therefore, it might not reflect every single case.

    1. Feather: $12-16 per tube (12), for decent club/tournament level of shuttles. If bulk order among friends, even cheaper.

    2. Nylon (Yonex Mavis 300/350): $9-10 per 6 shuttles.

    3. Standard session duration: 2 hours.

    4. Number of players: 4 - say, book a court

    Here's the shuttle cost per above configuration:

    1. Feather: 1.5 shuttles per game, and 2 hrs is about 8-10 games. 12 - 15 shuttles, cost = US$15 - 18, cost per person = $4

    2. Nylon: 2 - 3 shuttles for entire session, if you don't want to see the super bullet, better change a shuttle after 3-5 competitive games. cost = US$3 - 5, cost per person = $1

    So, if you play such a session, and equally share shuttle cost among friends, you pay US$3 extra per session. Say you play 3 times a week, that's US$9. I am sure we can save $9 per week, which means just go to KFC 1 less time. Or, simply save up 3-4 ice cream in the summer. Or, replace 5-6 bottle of Gatorade with water, or, get a part time job, and work for 1-2 hrs more. By doing so, you can enjoy more in the game itself. I know it's easier for working ppl than the students, but still within the do-able range.

    Of course, the key is to get everyone within your group understand, to evenly distribute the cost for shuttles. If the cost lay on just 1 or 2 person, that's a totally different story.
    well, not all people can buy feathers that cheap and have such wide selection of sellers.
    For speed 73 to 74, try to find sellers for that, forget about good deals. We r stuck with buying from only a few source. Here AS20 cost 21/doz(use to be 24/doz but high C$ helped), Victor green 24$/doz from bulk buy. Add to that air is drier here so feathers breaks faster (relative to 77-79 at sea level climate) even with steaming. If i use your assumption 9 games/2 hrs session, 1.5shuttle/game x 9 =13.5 shuttles. Using 22/doz, Cost =$6.2/person. I'm was basing it on your assumption of usage. Here, we have to tip most of the feather shuttles before use, further cutting into durabiltiy of each feather shuttle used.

    Plastic: I got $1.25/person.

    yes, i can afford 6$/session, i was just recalculating the math to better reflect our situration here. If u look at what dinkalot spent on shuttles, u can see it's no $6/session.

    as for C or lower level players, feather cost way more since the fastest way to wreck a feather shuttle is to mishit.
    Last edited by cooler; 10-04-2007 at 04:30 PM.

  15. #83
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    forgot to add:

    (6.1-1.25)x 3 sessions/wk *52 week=772$ extra/yr. For some students, that could be expensive, plus u have to find 3 other players who r willing to go along with this too.

  16. #84
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    Cooler: You ain't looking hard enough (Last Shipment of HQ-Blue worked out to be $13/tube and they are the perfect speed - no tipping required)

    I find I mishit a good feather shuttles, there is still a change it can be used. I mishit a plastic and it's done.

    Also I have the brute force to turn brand new 300s into bullets so rallies tend to be short.

  17. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViningWolff View Post
    Cooler: You ain't looking hard enough (Last Shipment of HQ-Blue worked out to be $13/tube and they are the perfect speed - no tipping required)

    I find I mishit a good feather shuttles, there is still a change it can be used. I mishit a plastic and it's done.

    Also I have the brute force to turn brand new 300s into bullets so rallies tend to be short.
    then we need to talk
    let me know when u r doing your next bulk order 1 Cdn$ is 1.015 USD today

    Currently i'm using AS20, victor blue and green and they are in 17=24$ range.
    Last edited by cooler; 10-05-2007 at 02:17 PM.

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