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  1. #18
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    I just find it a bit silly when there are dozens of cameras capable of showing accurately whether the shuttle has landed in or not around court and none of them are being used to review line calls.

  2. #19
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    hawk eye is soooooooooooooooooooooooo expensive and a poor sport like badderz could never afford it without serious drops in the prise money and the players wouldnt like that would they, now rich games like tennis can have it lol

  3. #20
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    it is a good thing tho and does help line judges make crucial decisions in crucial situations,,

  4. #21
    Moderator drifit's Avatar
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    poor sports? badminton is poor sports? a 85grammes badminton racquet is more expensive than 300grammes tennis racquet.

  5. #22
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    just add 1 free challenge per game per player using the normal camera slow-mo... how hard is that... they waste more time scrubing the floors

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifit View Post
    poor sports? badminton is poor sports? a 85grammes badminton racquet is more expensive than 300grammes tennis racquet.
    while racquet prices between badminton and tennis is comparable.
    i'd wager that theres more expensive specialized tennis racquets than there is badminton.

    theres more customization done in the realm of racquet production for tennis players than there is in badminton.

    professional players in badminton use OEM equipment, meaning everything they use, you can buy right off the shelves at a store.

    tennis is sponsored, endorsed, and supported by a huge network of individuals and companies.
    badminton is fledgling, barely scraping by tournament to tournament.
    the prize money at one big tournament for one event for tennis equals that of the entire prize money purse for a few badminton tournaments.

    that is what people mean by saying tennis is a "rich" sport, while badminton is "poor"

    rich people play badminton and tennis jsut like how poor people can play too.

  7. #24
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    Perhaps the hawkeye system is overkill for badminton... reviewing replays is so much simpler. The human eye can tell pretty accurately if the shuttle dropped in or out after looking at the slow motion :P

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green72(CAN) View Post
    Perhaps the hawkeye system is overkill for badminton... reviewing replays is so much simpler. The human eye can tell pretty accurately if the shuttle dropped in or out after looking at the slow motion :P
    If you are ONLY talking about baseline-calls, then Yes.. but Smashes on or close to the sidelines can be very tricky to see from angled cameras slo-mo...

    /T

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    If you are ONLY talking about baseline-calls, then Yes.. but Smashes on or close to the sidelines can be very tricky to see from angled cameras slo-mo...

    /T
    fortunately we currently have a couple over-head cams at most tournaments that are run along the trams, do we not?

  10. #27
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    What you are forgetting is that only the TV court is camera equipped. BWF would have to equip all courts (generally 4) if they were to implement the "replay/challenge" rule

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    Quote Originally Posted by madbad View Post
    What you are forgetting is that only the TV court is camera equipped. BWF would have to equip all courts (generally 4) if they were to implement the "replay/challenge" rule
    I think more cameras (especially high-speed ones) would be great addition to the sport.. The investment would not be staggering (they could be used at all BWF tournaments), and besides the benefit of making the game more fair, it would be able to make for great reruns, faster cuts and more action when presenting the game for a TV-audience imop.

    /T

  12. #29
    Moderator drifit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    I think more cameras (especially high-speed ones) would be great addition to the sport.. The investment would not be staggering (they could be used at all BWF tournaments), and besides the benefit of making the game more fair, it would be able to make for great reruns, faster cuts and more action when presenting the game for a TV-audience imop.

    /T
    very good suggestion. if the tv's camera can help out on this, much better...

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    after the korean open debacle i thought i'd reopen this one..

    after reading thru the posts something came to mind... while we see the action replays almost instantaneously i'm under the impression that these replays are managed by a team of people in the background. they cue up the video replay for the main screen... obviously if you've got one of these camera's to replace each line judge (perhaps more because some lines could be too long to resolve sharply enough) thats a lot of people to watch.. and then if you multiply this by the number of courts playing your start running into problems...

    i think the tennis circuit only allows the challenge system on later rounds (less courts obviously) perhaps this could be the way to do it for badminton, perhaps introduced at tournaments that are televised (so tournaments like the SS)

    but it will still come down to $$$$'s :S

  14. #31
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    Placing cameras at the courts is inexpensive and a much more feasible and easy alternative to implement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GunBlade008 View Post
    Placing cameras at the courts is inexpensive and a much more feasible and easy alternative to implement.
    I think we're getting there.

    Having gone through many threads ad nauseum and reading BC member's thoughts/suggestions, I believe the challenge system on TV replay would be the most feasible. I think the NFL style challenge probably works better at this point where ONLY the umpire talks to the TV replay people directly and views all the necessary angles. 2 challenges per game (ie 4 or 6 per match), regardless of correctness of call, to keep interruptions to a minimum. The extra expense would be to set up TV cameras on all 4 courts from several vantage points. The BWF would have to set water tight rules for challenges and the rulings must be accepted unequivocally. There must be NO DISSENT after a challenge ruling, otherwise the system would be rendered useless. (watch the clowns at BWF bugger this up royally )

    It's a start anyway, and certainly a more affordable alternative to implementing hawkeye. That said, what's considered affordable to cash strapped BWF?

  16. #33
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    You'll need at minimum 4 cameras, at maximum 10 cameras to cover all angles. In official BWF matches, they put somewhere from 3 to 8 linesmen, depending on the match. Generally, from QF to finals, they put all the linesmen there.
    You can use an inexpensive small camera like a CCTV surveillance camera. Just put them on the ground, and that's it. Record the footage and when a player challenge, just instant replay. CCTV cameras aren't expensive, for 50$ each, and considering you'll need only 6 cams per court, for two courts, that's 600$ investment which is well worth it.

    Here is a diagram of the maximum number of cameras, but you can use much less, since most controversial calls come from the side and back lines, not the midlines.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  17. #34
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    one problem with action replay camera's... players foot in the way of the camera?

    if the line is called 'unseen' the point is played again - this would allow a 'dishonest' player an advantage - if the shuttle landed near the line he could get between the linejudge and the camera. once the umpire called for replay he wouldn't be able to call it either and the point would be replayed..

    this would be ideal for shots left at the back ie, flick serves.

    we also have to consider the amount of time it takes to use these replays - if you have 10 camera's it could take some time to cue up the exact fractions of a second that the shuttle landed in - not something the umpire wants to waste time doing, so you need a backroom staff to manage the replays so that they could be available at short notice..

    tennis manages this by having the hawkeye system - a combination of 3d modelling and camera's built into the individual venues (at substantial cost i'd imagine) and then using the machine to decide what to show.

    this doesn't work for badminton because the shuttle is an irregular shape and difficult for the computer to resolve against the rest of the image..

    on top of that it's rare to get courts in arena's on their own apart from on finals day.. and then the mounts for the camera's would end up between the crowd and the court.. not ideal.

    i fear there is no really satisfactory solution to this problem until software that can resolve the shuttle in 99.9% of cases is developed.. anyone fancy a project?

    Coops

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