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    Default Cycling Vs Running

    Hi there!

    So I made a training regiment to follow, and that involves some cardio to pick up leg strength and stamina. I have some squats and other exercises in this regiment for pure strength building.

    I'm thinking about cycling instead of running, and using my bike with high resistance (wind, uphill, on the highest gear).

    Back when I cycled a lot my legs were much stronger, so I figure I must've been doing something right back then. Just wondering if anyone here has tried cycling, and if/how well it worked out for them.

    Kind regards,
    Charlie

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    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    build the right type of engine.

    a badminton match is most like interval training. lots of fast sprinting and jumping from corner to corner.

    you need to build up a good aerobic engine for stamina, as well as build up muscles to get used to the threshold level anaerobic workout.

    for the former, long rides at low intensity, for the latter, interval training at lactic threshold.

    i cycle a lot but mostly for long distance, thus most of the training is long distance (3-4+ hours, 60+ miles) aerobic training. only dotted with some hill climbs. as a result, i noticed that the aerobic engine as well as muscles that was developed isn't the most suitable for badminton. lacking explosive strength. so to do it right, you need to do more high intensity riding, but it seems like you already have that figured out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    build the right type of engine.

    a badminton match is most like interval training. lots of fast sprinting and jumping from corner to corner.

    you need to build up a good aerobic engine for stamina, as well as build up muscles to get used to the threshold level anaerobic workout.

    for the former, long rides at low intensity, for the latter, interval training at lactic threshold.

    i cycle a lot but mostly for long distance, thus most of the training is long distance (3-4+ hours, 60+ miles) aerobic training. only dotted with some hill climbs. as a result, i noticed that the aerobic engine as well as muscles that was developed isn't the most suitable for badminton. lacking explosive strength. so to do it right, you need to do more high intensity riding, but it seems like you already have that figured out.
    Yeah I was advised against running because as you've said, it focuses more on stamina than the sort of twitch muscles you need for fast movements. That said, one of the key things I'm noticing about my game is my ability to move around the court - particularly from front to back on a lift, or back to cross court front - I'm simply too slow. This is leading to some poorer shots because I'm not having adequate time to position myself.

    I'm also training my footwork with specific exercises and drills, but yeah my speed and agility are just a bit low right now. Figure I'll crack the old mountain bike out tomorrow and throw the gears up as high as possible, see how that goes.

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    i don't think running is bad if you do it right.

    there is a place for endurance training. you need a good aerobic base even for explosive exercises like badminton. the more efficient your aerobic engine, the less work your anaerobic engine need to work. aerobic work builds up the capillary system that deliver fuel to your muscle which will come in handy at any time. and it builds up mitochrondrial density which helps convert fuel to energy. to do that, you need low output, long duration training. afterall, a badminton match can be as long as an hour and by all measure, that is endurance. so don't ignore it.

    however, at the same time, you also need to develop speed and power. you can perhaps do that from biking uphill, or high intensity interval training. you need to do power exercise. i do think that the best is still doing similar exercise and that's means a lot of drills and shadow footwork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    i don't think running is bad if you do it right.

    there is a place for endurance training. you need a good aerobic base even for explosive exercises like badminton. the more efficient your aerobic engine, the less work your anaerobic engine need to work. aerobic work builds up the capillary system that deliver fuel to your muscle which will come in handy at any time. and it builds up mitochrondrial density which helps convert fuel to energy. to do that, you need low output, long duration training. afterall, a badminton match can be as long as an hour and by all measure, that is endurance. so don't ignore it.

    however, at the same time, you also need to develop speed and power. you can perhaps do that from biking uphill, or high intensity interval training. you need to do power exercise. i do think that the best is still doing similar exercise and that's means a lot of drills and shadow footwork.
    I'm not having too many issues with stamina, the longest days I do are usually between 12 and 6pm, which is a good 6 hours of activity. Sometimes I do that without eating too, and I usually last reasonably well only really feeling the burn in the last hour or so.

    Maybe cycling can hit two birds with one stone. I'm almost hoping the gentler but still fast movement required for pedalling will help me get better coordination on my feet again too.

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    I used to cycle, but not the way that kwun does. I would go for a mere hour but it would be short hill after short hill at hard gear. (It's kind of bumpy around here).

    The biggest benefit was low impact strengthening of the legs, which help support the knees from injury. The negative was that, as the only thing I did with my legs, they weren't very flexible.

    So, my advice for you is definitely do the cycling. Interval style is good. But make sure that you stretch well and incorporate "quick feet" exercises into regular regimen to battle the sluggish influence that raw power cycling can create. Good Luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fidget View Post
    I used to cycle, but not the way that kwun does. I would go for a mere hour but it would be short hill after short hill at hard gear. (It's kind of bumpy around here).

    The biggest benefit was low impact strengthening of the legs, which help support the knees from injury. The negative was that, as the only thing I did with my legs, they weren't very flexible.

    So, my advice for you is definitely do the cycling. Interval style is good. But make sure that you stretch well and incorporate "quick feet" exercises into regular regimen to battle the sluggish influence that raw power cycling can create. Good Luck!
    Quick feet is something I've started doing as a warm up before playing. I also use static stretches I learned from martial arts as a kid to increase my flexibility, so I have a pretty deep lunge. Just need that power for recovery and speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie-SWUK View Post
    I'm not having too many issues with stamina, the longest days I do are usually between 12 and 6pm, which is a good 6 hours of activity. Sometimes I do that without eating too, and I usually last reasonably well only really feeling the burn in the last hour or so.

    Maybe cycling can hit two birds with one stone. I'm almost hoping the gentler but still fast movement required for pedalling will help me get better coordination on my feet again too.
    stamina is quite vague a term. to really understand it, we need to look into it deeper and quantify it a little

    you said you can last 6 hours of badminton, at what level though? i'd say it is something at the level of a club playing against players your level. what happens when suddenly a county player shows up and you ended up have to play harder? can you still last 6 hours?

    to put it in bicycle terms, in which efforts are more measurable and quantifiable. a ironman world champion can output 280-300w for a duration of 5+ hours. for me, i can sustain 150w for that same duration. for that same amount of power, 300w, i can last around 30 seconds.

    now look at the in a different angle, for someone to last 5 hours in some amount of activity, that's low intensity or aerobic workout. you simply cannot push high intensity for 5 hours. the only difference between me and the pros is our output at "low intensity" are different.

    to put that back in badminton, i am sure most people in this forum can play badminton against a beginner for hours on end. however, if u are suddenly pit against a stronger player playing at a higher pace/intensity as you, then you may not last so long anymore.

    now, the question then is, how do we train ourselves to achieve the same "low intensity" output as the better players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    stamina is quite vague a term. to really understand it, we need to look into it deeper and quantify it a little

    you said you can last 6 hours of badminton, at what level though? i'd say it is something at the level of a club playing against players your level. what happens when suddenly a county player shows up and you ended up have to play harder? can you still last 6 hours?

    to put it in bicycle terms, in which efforts are more measurable and quantifiable. a ironman world champion can output 280-300w for a duration of 5+ hours. for me, i can sustain 150w for that same duration. for that same amount of power, 300w, i can last around 30 seconds.

    now look at the in a different angle, for someone to last 5 hours in some amount of activity, that's low intensity or aerobic workout. you simply cannot push high intensity for 5 hours. the only difference between me and the pros is our output at "low intensity" are different.

    to put that back in badminton, i am sure most people in this forum can play badminton against a beginner for hours on end. however, if u are suddenly pit against a stronger player playing at a higher pace/intensity as you, then you may not last so long anymore.

    now, the question then is, how do we train ourselves to achieve the same "low intensity" output as the better players?
    It's 50/50, 3 hours low intensity, 3 hours high intensity. If a county player showed up, I would get wrecked haha, I would definitely end up expending more energy against them. At the moment, I play singles in 3 of those hours with county junior players (aged 15-17), and they tend to be better than I am - so they make me work a bit harder.

    Again even here though, my footwork isn't good enough right now. I don't have the agility I need to compete with these players, nevermind much better athletes. A big part of where I'm losing points is where they play me from the front of the court, to the forehand back, and I simply can't get there in time. I have to take the shuttle sideways on (no follow through because I'm reaching behind my body) and have to play the shot almost entirely from the wrist. I have to try and play drops from this position, because the attempts at clears would get smashed and I'm not positioned for a drive.

    (As an addendum, one tactic I haven't tried often here is taking the extra step and trying to lift the entirety of the court, because it's usually met with a smash quite easily.)

    This has overall, made my pattern of play very predictable for these guys in singles. They know how to work me right now. I've checked footwork demos, and I'm on the right lines - execution needs improvement, but the basic form is there. The execution is often too slow, and a little bit miscalculated or sloppy - sometimes I'll clip my heel on a step through or something else clumsy. I really feel like building my legs up strength wise, and doing actions that make me lift my feet and knee more (such as running or cycling) are a part of the answer.

    I always aim for the tougher game, as I've expressed in other threads. I'd rather come off the court drenched in sweat and having lost a game than bored and disappointed in the match.

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    Apart from building stamina, cycling has other advantages in badminton.Cycling helps to increase your balance on court.Most of you may have seen professional players are trained for balance on court.What coaches do is - make them stand on single leg and throw basketball to either sides and they have to grab it without falling.What normally happens is that their brain gets trained to maintain balance during sudden shift of center of gravity.Cycling also train you brain for better balance and can help in better balance on court.

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    Cycling is a great sport and develops endurance very good.
    I do cycle a lot.

    Anyway, for badminton, it's better and more efficient to run.

    1. You need less time. As more muscles are involved, running is harder and builds cardiovascular fitness faster.

    2. It's more specific. You play badminton on your feet, you run on your feet.

    So if time constraints are binding, it's better to run. Mix it up between long and steady, intervals, hill sprints, ... There is nothing more efficient in building stamina than going out for a run.

    If you have enough time: Do both cycling and running...;-)

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    For badminton, the best activity in my book is High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). Which is basically very difficult cardio where you push as fast as you can go. And to train coordination, it works well to pick reasonably complicated moves e.g. instead of doing burpees, do burpees with a jumping lunge in between, alternating the leg you lunge on.

    Focus on jumping moves and you will develop genuine explosive power in your legs in a very short space of time.

    The regime I currently do is phenomenal, and consists of 4mins 30 of work (3 exercises 30 seconds each, repeated 3 times with no breaks) followed by 30 seconds of recovery e.g. slow jogging on the spot. I do this 6 times for a total of about 30 minutes workout which includes 3 minutes of rest.

    I have never been in such good shape, my movements never more explosive. And the complex moves and variety of moves really helps my balance and coordination.

    Give it a go - its only half an hour!

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    MSeeley,

    Would be kind enough to share your workout details.

    Thanks,
    cn

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    I agreed HIIT is really good (but I'm to lazy to do it) :-P

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    I'm neither a runner nor a cyclist, but I used to use ankle weights while playing badminton. So my quick movements are pretty good for someone reasonably big but I admit I'm not the fittest one on the court.

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    At the moment, I play singles in 3 of those hours with county junior players (aged 15-17), and they tend to be better than I am - so they make me work a bit harder.

    Again even here though, my footwork isn't good enough right now. I don't have the agility I need to compete with these players, nevermind much better athletes. A big part of where I'm losing points is where they play me from the front of the court, to the forehand back, and I simply can't get there in time. I have to take the shuttle sideways on (no follow through because I'm reaching behind my body) and have to play the shot almost entirely from the wrist. I have to try and play drops from this position, because the attempts at clears would get smashed and I'm not positioned for a drive
    Not bad I say. Agree this deep forehand is a tricky shot and takes a lot of training. If you have the shots, footwork and tactical nous to play out of this situation, it takes a lot out of the opponent as you can literally soak up pressure.

    This one really needs a lot of time to practice on a one to one coach (who really knows this shot). My preference would be to find a singles coach for this. You need to be able to play straight to the net past the service line, diagonal lines and also clears from this defensive position.


    Peter Gade and his footwork are an excellent model to follow. Very clean technique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    Not bad I say. Agree this deep forehand is a tricky shot and takes a lot of training. If you have the shots, footwork and tactical nous to play out of this situation, it takes a lot out of the opponent as you can literally soak up pressure.

    This one really needs a lot of time to practice on a one to one coach (who really knows this shot). My preference would be to find a singles coach for this. You need to be able to play straight to the net past the service line, diagonal lines and also clears from this defensive position.


    Peter Gade and his footwork are an excellent model to follow. Very clean technique.
    Thanks! I'll take a look at Gade's technique, but I feel like I'm at a limited point in my game. I need to improve my physique through exercises that'll improve my footing, agility and speed. But I do also need to work with a coach. I'm starting to whitevision stuff, I need a coach to help me through this section of my play at least. Otherwise I'm going to be running in circles or making slow progress. I'm undoubtedly making some errors I can't see, and I need the very technical eyes of a trained coach to identify those errors.

    I'm gonna talk with the two coaches I work with and see if I can hire them for just an hour a week (when it's convenient for them) for now to give me some focus on improvement. I'm playing 3-5 times a week when I can help it, so if I'm given that focus I can really start to work on that while I'm playing. I feel like that'll make an enormous difference to my play.

    Two of the juniors I'm playing are very agile in addition to tactical, even if I'm controlling the rally they'll jump to backhand deeps, I'll be playing them from back hand net to forehand rearcourt to backhand net to back hand rearcourt and they'll still manage it - albeit with a lot more running steps haha.

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