Footwork - backcourt - swivelstep

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Ole, Sep 1, 2007.

  1. Ole

    Ole Regular Member

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    Hi!

    Lately I have found my self doing something that I feel is kinda strange. When I get a lift or a clear to the backcentre or the backforehand court, I allways do the Swivelstep(the one you use when your going for the around the headshot in backhand court). My question is simple.
    Is this a bad habit I should get rid of?
    Like should I rather do a "chaze" step or something..

    I don't have a coach that can tell me these things(There isn't a club where I live) so I appreciate all the respons you can give me!
     
  2. RSLdude

    RSLdude Regular Member

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    It's difficult to picture how you do it but basically, try to be in front of the feather before doing the swing, at least the 11 o'clock angle is suggested so that your execution (for a forehand swing) can still have enough swing coming from your back.

    Your footwork is also critical since having the right footwork can propel you to move faster and hence ahead of the feather. With a good position, you can now execute an effective swing.

    My humble suggestion is for you to have a trainor so that he can monitor your movements on the court as well as the right execution for every swing. ;)
     
  3. llpjlau

    llpjlau Regular Member

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    i dont think its absolutely critical for you to get the right footwork. although its important, as long as you can get behind the shuttle fast enough, being unorthodox is fine.
     
  4. RSLdude

    RSLdude Regular Member

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    That was my opinion before but once you progress in your training or just plain practice, improper footwork may limit you in your shots especially what badminton addicts refer to as the "whip" motion. This "whip" motion can only be achieved if you have planted your feet properly and if you already established the right angle and distance of the feather before you hit it. There is also a thing called "recovery of position" after a shot made. The faster your footwork, the faster you can recover from your previous position, thus, making it easier for you to answer the return/s of your opponent. Lastly, improper footwork will definitely lead you to injuries in the long run...
     
  5. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    This sounds bizarre. ;) Are you sure it's the same footwork as for the backhand corner?

    The swivel step is a specific movement that involves pivoting around your left foot and moving diagonally left and backwards at the same time (for a right-hander).

    It's not the same as simply turning your body side-on, which is a movement used in all forehand overhead footwork patterns.
     
  6. Ole

    Ole Regular Member

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    What I mean is that I turn my self side on and then double step with my left foot before hitting the shuttle. If I have to get far back in the court I will do a little jump back before turning and then take a double step with the left. Sorry for not being clear on this as I tought that was the swivel.
    I am only taking about overhead shots. If the shuttle falls below the head I will use crossover for my movement.
     
    #6 Ole, Sep 2, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2007
  7. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Right, I think I'm starting to understand what you do. I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "double step".

    It sounds like your movement is basically right, but you might be using more steps than necessary.

    Here are the three basic movement patterns to the forehand rear corner:

    Step out (crossover): split drop, step back with left foot (crossing behind your right foot), turn body outwards (partially side-on, or "angled into the corner") and lunge onto your right leg. The hitting position is with the right leg behind and to the right of the left (the right leg is farther into the corner).

    This is a somewhat defensive footwork pattern, very useful for when the shuttle is travelling behind you.

    Sequence to remember: split, left, right.


    Jump out: split drop, turn body partially side-on to angle yourself towards the corner, jump out towards the corner to intercept the shuttle, hitting while the body is still side-on.

    You can add a chasse before the jump if you need to cover more distance.

    This is like the previous pattern in that you hit from behind your body, but it's much more aggressive. Usually the idea is to intercept a flat lift and play a sharp half-smash.

    Sequence to remember: split, (chasse), jump.


    Arc step: split drop, make a sideways "turning chasse" so that you move to your right and turn fully side-on at the same time, move backwards (chasse or crossover) and hit with a kick-through (scissor kick/full body rotation).

    The idea of the arc step is to move sideways to get in line with the shuttle, then go backwards. The other two methods use direct diagonal movement instead, which is faster but does not get you fully in line with the shuttle.

    The arc step is the right footwork for when you have enough time to get fully behind the shuttle. It takes slightly longer, but you reach a better position.

    Sequence to remember: split, turning chasse, kick-through.
     
    #7 Gollum, Sep 2, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2007
  8. coachgary

    coachgary Regular Member

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    Among coaches the Arc step always leads to a heated discussion. I believe in its merits but many dont. At the Welsh conference this year Andy Hartley of Yonex, Eddie o'Neil of WBU, Peter Higman of BE, and a few others all discussed this and couldn't agree. One more movement to throw in is Andy Hartley's Pendulum movement!!
     
  9. Ole

    Ole Regular Member

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    Gollum, look at xia's footwork at 3.50 after Hendrawan does a lift. That's what I mean but I do that to both sides in a bizzare sort of way.:D
    I only do a halv pivot when going to the forehand side.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFcDCxC5PvQ

    I have read and seen a lot of badminton so I am familiar with its basic footwork. My point is that I havn't seen anyone doing this kind of footwork to the forehand side, but since I'm not a pro and I aint a badminton god, I thought that maybe this wasn't a slower way of doing it. Maybe it is just not preferd by the majority of badminton players.
    So I'm asking if it is a bad habit(aka a slower way) or should I keep it up with my new found style!:p

    Coachgary, can you elaborate the pendelum movement?
     
    #9 Ole, Sep 2, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2007
  10. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Xia is doing a swivel step to the backhand side.

    On the forehand side, this just translates to a standard "move back and kick-through". I class this under the arc step, because the movement pattern is much the same but with a less pronounced arc movement.

    The more time you have, the more pronounced you can make the arc step: at one extreme, you have an essentially diagonal movement but with just enough time to get back for a kick-through; at the other extreme, you have a pronounced turning chasse with a complete side-on pre-hitting position.

    As with grips, I try to avoid naming dozens of different footwork patterns: I think it's more helpful to see "families" of grips or footwork patterns.

    Of course, there are many potential variations, and any classification system will be arbitrary and will gloss over the nuances.

    You may be over-analysing your footwork, to the point where you see slight, natural variations as completely different footwork patterns. Just try to ensure that, whatever footwork pattern you are using, you avoid unnecessary steps: fewer, longer steps are better than more short ones.
     
    #10 Gollum, Sep 2, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2007
  11. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    I'd be interested to learn what this "pendulum movement" is.

    I wonder if they are disagreeing about the merits of the movement, or coming to loggerheads over different classification systems and nomenclature?

    In my experience, coaches often have a hard time speaking the same language (sometimes because we are not such good listeners as we like to think!). I've sat by countless mind-numbingly tedious conversations among coaches who I know are describing the same thing, but simply aren't thinking about what the others are saying.

    That's not to say there aren't real differences of opinion as well.

    Coaches conferences are an excellent chance to learn, but they suffer from an embarrassing problem: too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. ;) We do much more talking than listening, it often seems; every coach wants to be the one to inflict his dogma and patois upon the others, and assume some kind of leadership role.

    I'm not bitter and jaded, really I'm not. :D
     
    #11 Gollum, Sep 2, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2007
  12. coachgary

    coachgary Regular Member

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    The pendulum as described and demonstrated to me is where you swing both legs through past your body.

    Imagine you are jumping out to f/h rearcourt to hit the shuttle your legs will swing through from left hand side of body to right hand side, during this jump the shuttle will be struck and feet will land behind your body with weight transferred leaning towards base.
    I suppose it is a two footed take off, swing legs through, semi rotation of body and land two footed, shoulders and feet will be more or less square to/facing your return base position.
    Your centre of gravity will be biased towards getting back to base.

    The landing where you point your racquet foot towards the corner on puts alot of stress onto your muscles and joints plus your centre of gravity on such a landing is not helpful in returning to base after your shot.

    The pendulum takes a bit of practice as it can make the contact with the shuttle a little harder to be consistent.
     
  13. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    That sounds exactly like a jump out movement. This seems to be another example of coaches using different terms for essentially the same thing.

    You would not point your racket foot into the corner after a jump. You would only do this after a step out movement, and then only when the shuttle is quite far behind you. Landing after a jump should be as you describe above.
     
  14. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    Here's a good saying I once heard a coach say about technique:

    There is no "right" way, though there are some wrong ways.

    With beginners, it is easy to spot gross technical errors and fix them. For example, not split-stepping would be a major technical error that needs fixing, whereas choosing between particular footwork variations is a much subtler issue. You need to understand that for a particular situation, there is a variation of the basic technique to optimize the technique for that situation. So instead of thinking that there's a right/wrong way to do things, you have to think about how make a judgement of the "best" way to do something for the given situation.

    Also, with good coaches don't worry too much about the stuff they disagree on. Focus on what they agree on, and let that guide you.
     
  15. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Good advice. It's better to rely on multiple sources than put all your trust in an individual.

    The caveat, concisely hidden in your qualifier "good coaches", is that coaches can be wrong. Not "different opinions/styles/whatever", but plain wrong. This is vanishingly unlikely with international coaches, very unlikely with county/regional coaches, and moderately likely among lower level coaches (who make up the majority of coaches).
     
  16. coachgary

    coachgary Regular Member

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    I believe OLE is referring to the Arc movement as described by Gollum. Left foot front crossover (although in reality the legs dont actually crossover), then a chasse back. Probably looks like there is a left foot hop in there somewhere.
     

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