Tang Xianhu - The Thing (Is He The Greatest Ever?)

**pcll99** · 01-09-2012, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by chris-ccc

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Yes, Tang Xianhu was already a retired player.

Tang Xianhu did not come to Australia to participate in tournaments. His tour was organised by our National Coaches Association as a "Coaching Tour", not a tournament tour.

He was asked to come to teach only our Australian qualified coaches. He did not come to teach our team of players.

Now that's the important thing: Was he telling coaches things different from what he would tell his players? Only he can answer that question.

Yes, from my observations, Tang Xianhu is a player of great fitness and physical strength. But he was asked by our Coaches Association just to teach us Badminton principles and techniques. Therefore, we coaches didn't get to learn how he trained to be so fast and physically powerful. He thought us what to pay attention to when a stroke is performed.

Since most BCers here are players and not coaches, I think that is where my posts were not fully understood. Like you said "It's about the principles that Tang Xinfu based his game on"; But was his coaching method based on how he played? - I would guess that his coaching method was based on what he thinks, not how he played.

On the other hand, his playing method would change (I am sure), based on how he thinks he would play to win (reacting to his opponent's playing style). Here, we are more into "Tactics" than into "Techniques". This is another different subject/topic altogether.

You have to remember this: He taught us coaches how to coach, not how to play. And this has probably caused BCers (of playing members) the confusion.
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Ok, great... beside what u said a few days ago in LCW's thread, any other principles u like to share with us which you learnt from TXH?

**viver** · 01-10-2012, 12:31 AM

In 1980 the person teaching/coaching you in Australia may has been anybody, definitely not Tang Xinfu.

Originally Posted by chris-ccc

.
Yes, Tang Xianhu was already a retired player.

Tang Xianhu did not come to Australia to participate in tournaments. His tour was organised by our National Coaches Association as a "Coaching Tour", not a tournament tour. 
 
He was asked to come to teach only our Australian qualified coaches. He did not come to teach our team of players. 
 
Now that's the important thing: Was he telling coaches things different from what he would tell his players? Only he can answer that question. 
.

Can you tell me how was Tang Xinfu's playing style. And how was his tactical thoughts compared to his playing style? You mentioned earlier:

- "I find Tang Xian Hu's philosophy on training methods the best. If only you have studied/listened to his coaching methods. But of course, this is only my opinion"

- "... How do I know? After knowing Tang Xianfu's philosophy, I can only
guess what he had told Lin Dan before the match. And also how he had
trained Lin Dan at the 2008 OG (in anticipation for him to face LCW at
the Finals)."

Based on your own words and description, you must have an intimate knowledge of Tang Xinfu's thoughts and training methodologies. Would you be kind enough to share the principles that guided his game then?

Originally Posted by chris-ccc

.
Yes, from my observations, Tang Xianhu is a player of great fitness and physical strength. But he was asked by our Coaches Association just to teach us Badminton principles and techniques. Therefore, we coaches didn't get to learn how he trained to be so fast and physically powerful. He thought us what to pay attention to when a stroke is performed.

Since most BCers here are players and not coaches, I think that is where my posts were not fully understood. Like you said "It's about the principles that Tang Xinfu based his game on"; But was his coaching method based on how he played? - I would guess that his coaching method was based on what he thinks, not how he played.

On the other hand, his playing method would change (I am sure), if based on how he would play to win (reacting to his opponent's playing style). Here, we are more into "Tactics", rather than into "Techniques". This is a different subject/topic altogether.

You have to remember this: He taught us coaches how to coach, not how to play. And this has probably caused BCers (of playing members) the confusion. 
.

In 1980? As mentioned, Tang Xinfu already retired as a player and did not train much. I don't think he would play a match against a fit opponent. And again, in 1980 you could have anybody coaching you guys in Australia, but not Tang Xinfu.

Originally Posted by chris-ccc

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Our then Australian No.1 player, Mark Harry, was invited to play a demonstration match with him. Again, it was played just for our coaches to watch. BTW, there were less than 10 of us coaches witnessing that match (no non-coaching people were invited).
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**chris-ccc** · 01-10-2012, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by viver

In 1980 the person teaching/coaching you in Australia may has been anybody, definitely not Tang Xinfu.

 
 
 
Can you tell me how Tang Xinfu playing style. And how was his tactical thoughts compared to his playing style? You mentioned earlier: - "I find Tang Xian Hu's philosophy on training methods the best. If only you have studied/listened to his coaching methods. But of course, this is only my opinion". - "How do I know? After knowing Tang Xianfu's philosophy, I can only
guess what he had told Lin Dan before the match. And also how he had
trained Lin Dan at the 2008 OG (in anticipation for him to face LCW at
the Finals)." Based on your own words and description, you must have an intimate knowledge of Tang Xinfu's thoughts and training methodologies. Would you be kind enough to share the principles that guided his game then? Not tactics. 
 
 
 In 1980? As mentioned, Tang Xinfu already retired as a player and did not train much. I don't think he would play a match against a fit opponent. And again, in 1980 you could have anybody coaching you guys in Australia, but not Tang Xinfu.

.
I think I have wasted all my time posting here (if you think I don't know who Tang Xianhu is

).

If you happen to meet Tang Xianhu, just remind him of me (the one who took him (to introduce him) to McDonalds in Australia.

.

***cobalt*** · 01-10-2012, 01:59 AM

http://edwindwianto.wordpress.com/20...-of-indonesia/

Excerpts:

Tang is the man who responsible for the winning of China’s team. With his magical touch, he makes China into a badminton giant in this modern era.
The sad part is Tang was Indonesian…

The fact is Tang was born and grew up in Teluk Betung, Lampung, Indonesia, March 13, 1942.

”In China, my name is often called Tang Xianhu or Tang Hsien Hu, depending on the respective regional dialect. But, my parents gave the name of Tong Sinfu”. While still dealing with Indonesian national team, he got the name of Fuad Nurhadi.

...His career began in late 1979, when he started to retire. For six years, Tang had trained China’s female players.

...Then in 1986, Tang started to train Indonesia’s players. Initially, he did not handle Pelatnas Cipayung’s players. He coached at the Bakrie owned club, Pelita Jaya. He was paid USD 750 per month, at that time. After that, Tang was transferred to Pelatnas Cipayung and began to coach there.

...”Indonesia’s players at that time were different from the one now,” he said. “They were of better quality”. “Also, they have a spirit and willingness to be a champion” said the 68 years old coach. ”My philosophy as a coach is not the coach who must be good, but the player himself. The trainers task is only to help” he continued.

...At the 2000 Sydney Olympics, he saw his protege, Xia Xuanze, surrendered at the hands of Hendrawan who was also Tang’s protege while he was still in Indonesia. ...Conversely, the success Ji Xinpeng who had beaten Hendrawan was also thanks to Tang’s instructions.

...How sad is above story ???…
He could have been Indonesia’s greatest badminton coach…
He is truly a pearl who have been wasted by Indonesia…

**taneepak** · 01-10-2012, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by cobalt

http://edwindwianto.wordpress.com/20...-of-indonesia/

Excerpts:

Tang is the man who responsible for the winning of China’s team. With his magical touch, he makes China into a badminton giant in this modern era.
The sad part is Tang was Indonesian…

The fact is Tang was born and grew up in Teluk Betung, Lampung, Indonesia, March 13, 1942.

”In China, my name is often called Tang Xianhu or Tang Hsien Hu, depending on the respective regional dialect. But, my parents gave the name of Tong Sinfu”. While still dealing with Indonesian national team, he got the name of Fuad Nurhadi.

...His career began in late 1979, when he started to retire. For six years, Tang had trained China’s female players.

...Then in 1986, Tang started to train Indonesia’s players. Initially, he did not handle Pelatnas Cipayung’s players. He coached at the Bakrie owned club, Pelita Jaya. He was paid USD 750 per month, at that time. After that, Tang was transferred to Pelatnas Cipayung and began to coach there.

...”Indonesia’s players at that time were different from the one now,” he said. “They were of better quality”. “Also, they have a spirit and willingness to be a champion” said the 68 years old coach. ”My philosophy as a coach is not the coach who must be good, but the player himself. The trainers task is only to help” he continued.

...At the 2000 Sydney Olympics, he saw his protege, Xia Xuanze, surrendered at the hands of Hendrawan who was also Tang’s protege while he was still in Indonesia. ...Conversely, the success Ji Xinpeng who had beaten Hendrawan was also thanks to Tang’s instructions.

...How sad is above story ???…
He could have been Indonesia’s greatest badminton coach…
He is truly a pearl who have been wasted by Indonesia…

I think this one beats all the loud 'noises' that chris-ccc promised so much but nerevr delivered.

**visor** · 01-10-2012, 02:59 AM

wow, never knew his background

too bad those videos are in mandarin...

***cobalt*** · 01-10-2012, 03:04 AM

From the archives of The Straits Times.

http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Pa...0807.1.13.aspx

**chris-ccc** · 01-10-2012, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

I think this one beats all the loud 'noises' that chris-ccc promised so much but nerevr delivered.

.

I am really getting annoyed now.

May I repeat it: Tang Xianhu was teaching me how to coach Badminton, not how to play Badminton. It looks like I haven't been able to get this point across.

BCers (who are players) are still asking what he has taught me on how to play Badminton - While I was only being taught by him on to how to coach Badminton.

I shall stop responding now, because the noise is getting too much for me (I regret to say). Because many readers here do not understand the difference.

It has really got on my nerves.

.

**taneepak** · 01-10-2012, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by cobalt

http://edwindwianto.wordpress.com/20...-of-indonesia/

Excerpts:

Tang is the man who responsible for the winning of China’s team. With his magical touch, he makes China into a badminton giant in this modern era.
The sad part is Tang was Indonesian…

The fact is Tang was born and grew up in Teluk Betung, Lampung, Indonesia, March 13, 1942.

”In China, my name is often called Tang Xianhu or Tang Hsien Hu, depending on the respective regional dialect. But, my parents gave the name of Tong Sinfu”. While still dealing with Indonesian national team, he got the name of Fuad Nurhadi.

...His career began in late 1979, when he started to retire. For six years, Tang had trained China’s female players.

...Then in 1986, Tang started to train Indonesia’s players. Initially, he did not handle Pelatnas Cipayung’s players. He coached at the Bakrie owned club, Pelita Jaya. He was paid USD 750 per month, at that time. After that, Tang was transferred to Pelatnas Cipayung and began to coach there.

...”Indonesia’s players at that time were different from the one now,” he said. “They were of better quality”. “Also, they have a spirit and willingness to be a champion” said the 68 years old coach. ”My philosophy as a coach is not the coach who must be good, but the player himself. The trainers task is only to help” he continued.

...At the 2000 Sydney Olympics, he saw his protege, Xia Xuanze, surrendered at the hands of Hendrawan who was also Tang’s protege while he was still in Indonesia. ...Conversely, the success Ji Xinpeng who had beaten Hendrawan was also thanks to Tang’s instructions.

...How sad is above story ???…
He could have been Indonesia’s greatest badminton coach…
He is truly a pearl who have been wasted by Indonesia…

Originally Posted by chris-ccc

.

I am really getting annoyed now.

May I repeat it: Tang Xianhu was teaching me how to coach Badminton, not how to play Badminton. It looks like I haven't been able to get this point across.

BCers (who are players) are still asking what he has taught me on how to play Badminton - While I was only being taught by him on to how to coach Badminton.

I shall stop responding now, because the noise is getting too much for me (I regret to say). Because many readers here do not understand the difference.

It has really got on my nerves.

.

Well, that is what we are expecting from you. At least Cobalt did dig up something about the coach's job being to help. Now tell us what the 'Thing' say about helping players? This is the right place and if not why was this thing brought up in the first place? Please let us also benefit from the reflected glory of your great experience with the 'Thing'.

**undeadshot** · 01-10-2012, 07:11 AM

Woah, poor chris. Don't make him regret sharing this with all of us.

**chris-ccc** · 01-10-2012, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by undeadshot

Woah, poor chris. Don't make him regret sharing this with all of us.

.
Thanks undeadshot,

It was good that I went away for a break to cool down. This is getting crazy.

It all started from this post (in LCW's thread);

Originally Posted by chris-ccc

All I can say is I am confused to read comments saying that LCW has little technical brilliance when he is our World No.1 BWF player.

I consider myself as a coach of Badminton techniques, and therefore this is a pet subject of mine. This is also to answer questions from previous posts (regarding Tang's training methodologies).

So, here is a little list for some of Tang's teaching;

* Footwork:
When thinking of Footwork, think of not just moving to reach the shuttlecock. Think of our BALANCE (for every movement we make).

* Stroke:
Regarding performing the Technical Brilliance of a stroke, it is the ability to hit the shuttlecock to any particular area on our opponent's court from any area on our side of the court. It's where we want the shuttlecock to land when we get to notice the weaker area of our opponent's court where he/she has difficulty.

* Deception:
If our opponent is not wrong-footed by our 'intended' deceptive stroke, then it is not wise to use it again.

* Smash:
A smash should be around 60%-80% power. And it is to set up for the next shot. A 'KILL' is the 100% power shot that gives no chance for our opponent to return it.

* Good Net-Play:
A good net-play is one that has lots of wobble/tumble/spin that falls very close to the net (best if it falls on the net-tape and then falls down from there) which only allows our opponent to 'LIFT' and/or to do a cross-court net-play reply.

* Speed of Movement:
When we can move faster, we return our shot faster. It gives the disadvantage to our opponent (less time for his/her to do his/her next shot).

* Time Factor:
Many players think of just the 3 dimensions of the shuttlecock' flight, namely height, length and width. The 4th dimension, 'TIME', is very important. Therefore, hitting a shuttlecock flat and/or downwards is always better than hitting a shuttlecock upwards.

* Holding Up The Racket-Head:
The nearer we are to the net, the higher we need to hold the racket-head. Why? Because we have less time to get the racket-head to meet the shuttlecock as it comes over the net.

* Game Plan:
Don't just play the way we like to play, but also play the way that our opponent doesn't like to play.

* Form:
On different days, we find ourselves having different forms. On some days we have good touches, on other days we have more power. Some applies to our opponent. Therefore, play the way in which we feel comfortable, and to our opponent's discomfort.

* etc, etc, many more......

As I have said before, it would take a long, long post to give info on Tang's philosophy. If he himself does not write a book on it, then I wouldn't too.

Many of my trainees have told me to write a book on how to play 'Better Badminton'. But after training with me for some time, they realised how a demonstration of a particular point is so much easier to do, than to put them down in words.

It's time for us to rest and re-think about Badminton now.

**nokh88** · 01-10-2012, 08:40 AM

I think Chris has been very tolerant. I would have stop long ago. I am a lousy teacher of any sorts.
Chris, you must be a very good coach.

**pcll99** · 01-10-2012, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by chris-ccc

.
Thanks undeadshot,

It was good that I went away for a break to cool down. This is getting crazy.

this proves people are desperate to know what TXH taught, even though it was 3 decades ago.

I support you chris.

**axl886** · 01-10-2012, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by viver

In 1980 the person teaching/coaching you in Australia may has been anybody, definitely not Tang Xinfu.

How come you sound so sure? Were you there?

Frankly I dun think Chris is somebody who name-drops... (which is kinda lame if you ask me).

**chris-ccc** · 01-10-2012, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by axl886

How come you sound so sure? Were you there?

Frankly I dun think Chris is somebody who name-drops... (which is kinda lame if you ask me).

.
We need to let it go.

Why? Because we coaches and players often think differently.

Because most BCers here are players and not coaches, I have to admit that I am a minority.

While I am talking about TXH as a coach, most others are talking about him as a player. Strange isn't it?

Just look at another example: Whenever we talk about Li YongBo as a coach, we seldom find BCers talking about him as a player. Why? I wonder.

Perhaps I am in the wrong thread again.

This thread is probably more suitable to talk about TXH as a player, and not as a coach.

.

**OneToughBirdie** · 01-10-2012, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by chris-ccc

.

I am really getting annoyed now.

May I repeat it: Tang Xianhu was teaching me how to coach Badminton, not how to play Badminton. It looks like I haven't been able to get this point across.

BCers (who are players) are still asking what he has taught me on how to play Badminton - While I was only being taught by him on to how to coach Badminton.

I shall stop responding now, because the noise is getting too much for me (I regret to say). Because many readers here do not understand the difference.

It has really got on my nerves.

.

Chris, take it with a grain of salt and laugh it off

As for my teasing you in previous post is meant in a humour manner, maybe it may sound twisted and for that, I apologize.

Originally Posted by nokh88

I think Chris has been very tolerant. I would have stop long ago. I am a lousy teacher of any sorts.
Chris, you must be a very good coach.

I agree with ya that I would have stopped too. As for the coaching part, I am a bit different from you, I love coaching good looking chicks and good at it too

, err.. I mean those matured 'hens' (not chicks) that I play with

***cobalt*** · 01-10-2012, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by chris-ccc

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We need to let it go.

----snip-----

Perhaps I am in the wrong thread again.

This thread is probably more suitable to talk about TXH as a player, and not as a coach.

.

With respect, I don't think we should let it go, Chris.

This thread is about TXH, period. As a person, and as a man who has brought his considerable knowledge, insights, instincts and beliefs to bear on the very future of the game that we all love so much.

While I would hesitate to name him as the greatest ever (that's just too definitive for me!

) there is no question about his influence on players, and the course of the game.

I am sure that like me, there are many more here who would be interested in knowing what it was that you learned from your meeting with TXH. Frankly, I wouldn't expect anything profound or spiritual; probably some basic truths that most of us discard or prefer not to recognise as we get too wrapped up in proving a point. I don't mind waiting a while, but please think back to your meeting with him, and what else you took away from it, and when you think the time is right, I hope you can share it with us.