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  1. #86
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    I agree with ya that I would have stopped too. As for the coaching part, I am a bit different from you, I love coaching good looking chicks and good at it too, err.. I mean those matured 'hens' (not chicks) that I play with
    You probably make them pick up birds as a drill and just stand there and watch them, you cad!

  2. #87
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Chris, there are many of us here who support you. . Btw, did he ever mention or hint at the mental / psychological aspects of the game, player etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    You probably make them pick up birds as a drill and just stand there and watch them, you cad!
    My wifey said I am mean to do netty, making the other sides running bonkers and laughing like a hyena (sometimes I cannot help it but LOL)...but what can I do, since I cannot smash, cannot hit towards their body, and now cannot even do netty, drops and playing the corners, might as well play with my left hand and look stupid myself...hahaha!

  4. #89
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Default "The Indonesian Challenge In Malayan Open"

    From the archives of The Straits Times, 1 August 1959, Page 12

    http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Ar...801.2.113.aspx

    Features The Thing in batik!

  5. #90
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Default "Billy Ng Downs Thing in 2 Straight Sets"

    Evidently, THX wasn't born a winner! Although he had a classy game (by all accounts even back when he was a junior player, he was indentified as the most talented Indonesian coming up) he had to do the hard yards before he matured. This may have had some effect in shaping his work ethic and philosophy later on.

    From the archives of Singapore Free Press, 12 August 1959, Page 9...
    http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Ar...812.2.107.aspx

  6. #91
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Forgive my ignorance but why's he called The Thing?

  7. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Forgive my ignorance but why's he called The Thing?
    click on cobalt's link.

    back then, his name was written "Thing Hian Houw".

    the Thing, he was.

    and incredible find by cobalt, given that it requires searching through news archive way back to the 50's...

  8. #93
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    For all BCers and other lurkers out there who are interested in TXH's origins and the times that moulded him into what he later became; and for a fascinating and in-depth understanding of the genesis of Indonesian badminton, and the unfortunate events (the "troubles" or "disturbances") that led to the eventual slide in that country's fortunes, please follow this link. It is a paper written by Colin Brown of the Curtin University of Technology, Australia, and is titled:

    SPORT, POLITICS AND ETHNICITY: PLAYING BADMINTON FOR INDONESIA

    http://coombs.anu.edu.au/SpecialProj...C-ASAA2004.pdf


    This paper makes absolutely compulsive reading. I would suggest the link also be posted on the Indinesia Badminton thread. The paper also goes on to tell how the issues were finally cleared up post-June 2002.

    Some excerpts:

    One commentator wrote recently in The Jakarta Post that internationally, Indonesia was known for few things – plantation crops, corruption and badminton.
    ...
    Yet while there are many studies of plantation crops, and many more of corruption, badminton is virtually invisible in scholarly writing on Indonesia.

    ...
    I suspect that the key to the introduction of badminton to the archipelago lies in Medan, and the cross-Straits connections it had with Pinang and to a lesser extent Singapore. ...Ethnic Chinese clubs, by the early 1930s, seem to have been inviting badminton players from Pinang to Medan, initially to play exhibition games, but subsequently for competitions. Yan Eng Hoo, for instance, is cited as a particularly influential Pinang player who frequently visited Indonesia.

    ...
    In the 1930s badminton also spread to various regions including Bandung (West Java), Semarang, Solo (Central Java), and Surabaya (East Java). In 1934, Central Java held a championship tournament. This speedy development of badminton was primarily the result of visits undertaken by a player from Jakarta, Oei Kok Tjoan.

    ...The game was apparently popularised through being played as entertainment at night markets (pasar malam
    ) in major towns and cities: by the late 1930s, as one observer puts it: ‘there was no pasar malam [in Java] which did not stage a badminton tournament’.

    ...
    Until 1961 the headquarters of PBSI Jakarta was in the Tjandra Naja building, at Jl Gajah Mada no. 188 – which was also the headquarters of the Sin Ming Hui, the ethnic Chinese social and educational association.

    ...
    But perhaps the biggest test is when players leave Indonesia to play for other nations. Indonesia has gone through two periods when such movements have taken place in sufficient numbers as to have a potentially significant impact on the country’s international standing.
    The first period was in the 1960s, when a number of its best ethnic Chinese players and coaches left for China, at a time when many other ethnic Chinese were making this same journey.

    As one Indonesian commentator put it, discussing China’s rise to prominence in world badminton and thus to threaten Indonesia’s position:

    ...Three leading Chinese players and coaches, members of the International Badminton Federation’s Hall of Fame, who do seem to fall into this category are Tang Xianhu (known when in Indonesia as Tong Sin Fu and Thing Hian Houw), Chen Yu Niang (Tan Giok Nio) and Hou Jiachang (Houw Ka Tjong – the ‘Hou Chia Chang’ mentioned above?). Another was Liang Chiu Sia (Leung Ca Hua), who went to China in 1966, following the rise to power of General Suharto. As was often the case, some of Liang’s siblings went with her to China, and other stayed in Indonesia. Amongst those who stayed was her younger brother Tjun Tjun, who was to win the All England men’s doubles titles for Indonesia six times between 1974 and 1980. Liang eventually left China for Hong Kong, and finally returned to Indonesia, re-acquiring Indonesian citizenship in 1986 – ‘thanks to the combined efforts of the government, in this case the offices of the Ministers for Sport and Employment, the Indonesian National Olympic Committee and the Indonesian Badminton Federation.’


    …the seeds (of China’s rise) came from Indonesia in the 1950s, when Hou Chia Chang and Tang Hzien Hou returned to their Ancestral Homeland from Solo. Tang, who we knew as Tong Si Fu, did come back to Indonesia but because his application for citizenship was not dealt with properly, he went back (to China). And the successor to this pair of pioneers developed and perfected their (training) methods.

  9. #94
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Wow, excellent dig, cobalt! You and Maklike should be nominated for the best intraweb search engines on BC.

  10. #95
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    It's indeed a pity that INA lost a great coach in Om Tong (Uncle Tong) due to the protracted process in getting his citizenship. Some of us are still grieving for this loss.

    Liang Chiu Hsia is still currently coaching in INA. She (and Sarwendah) were asked to return back to Pelatnas last year to assist Li Mao but I think something happened in between and she might have returned back to club. Krisna and Hau-Ge will probably know better and correct me if I am wrong.

    Fang Kaixiang also worked for PB Djarum recently before he retired either in 2010.

  11. #96
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    I just want to add something which i have been told by my relatives when they went back to their ancestor's home land during 1960s.

    When they went back, they were placed in a several main points, and China government arranged some competitions inside, i don't know that it is just for leisure activities or talent scout, but it seems for both. Badminton & Table Tennis are two of the several small competitions arranged by China Government. Therefore during that time, there are high possibilities that some talents from INA have been discovered.

  12. #97
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    I certainly would not be as well known as you. Imagine, to remember a person one met once over 30 years ago must have left a very deep impression. I am certainly not able of such thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I think I have wasted all my time posting here (if you think I don't know who Tang Xianhu is ).

    If you happen to meet Tang Xianhu, just remind him of me (the one who took him (to introduce him) to McDonalds in Australia.
    .

    The post you mentioned was not the reason. As mentioned, the stuff you listed are a few points good for badminton, I don't think they are detail/advanced techniques by Tang Xinfu and they may not reflect the school of badminton that Tang Xinfu represented. The questions requesting you to share (if you wish of course) resulted from the posts below - I believe you posted them right?


    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    OK... Maybe I have exaggerated it a bit too much.

    When I was learning to coach, I was under the instructions from Tang Xian Hu (in person, when he visited Australia).

    I find Tang Xian Hu's philosophy on training methods the best. If only you have studied/listened to his coaching methods. But of course, this is only my opinion.
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    BTW, at the 2008 Beijing Olympics, why had Lin Dan performed so well against LCW? It's because Tang Xianfu reminded Lin Dan what to expect from the replies from LCW after certain stokes.

    How do I know? After knowing Tang Xianfu's philosophy, I can only guess what he had told Lin Dan before the match. And also how he had trained Lin Dan at the 2008 OG (in anticipation for him to face LCW at the Finals).
    .
    You claimed that Tang Xinfu's philosophy on training methods the best. Are you saying that you consider Tang Xinfu philosophy on training methods the best because you saw Tang Xinfu displaying some techniques and not elaborating any further on the training methods and philosophy behind it?

    If you like to stop wasting your time, it's just fine with me, honest. But I have doubts:
    - In the Liem Swie King thread if I am not mistaken, you mentioned Tang Xinfu and Hou Jiachang visiting Australia together in 1980. Hou Jiachang was seen by CBA in much better light than Tang Xinfu; how come Hou Jiachang was not involved in the exhibitions? Of course, you may have forgot to mention
    - You mentioned Tang Xinfu, representing CBA (read China) conducted the training sessions in a mixture of Indonesian and Mandarin. I think this is not a politically correct thing to do during an official visit for obvious reasons. Furthermore, as far as I understand, on those bygone days CBA always had interpreters in the entourage, a visit to Australia there should be English/Mandarin/English translators/interpreters. In some tours/competitions the players and coaches were not even allowed to communicate with anybody foreign to the team.
    - Hou Jiachang held a more senior position than Tang Xinfu in those days. Did Hou conduct any training session?
    - The visit was made possible by CBA. How come the Chinese players did not invoke the principles of the Chinese Badminton school when displaying their excellent techniques and results. On the other hand, I had been to a few seminars conducted by Chinese National coaches and I always hear these principles as a starter.
    - I question the year 1980. I can let you know that I visited the co-author of Tang's book and was made aware of the book project. I was told that Tang Xinfu was off and not in the National training center. He was involved in some other personal projects and not available until the following year. Interesting, I believe the videos in Cobalt's links provided earlier did mention, though not clear, something that somehow matches the dates.

    Actually I am not expecting you to reply, but will leave it at your discretion.

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    That's why Tang Xinfu stated that it was possible for him to become a top player after returning to China.


    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    From the archives of The Straits Times.

    http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Pa...0807.1.13.aspx

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    chris-ccc, is that all about what you have learned from the 'Thing'?

    I thought there must be more, much more and may I add much better quality stuff you have learned from Tang.
    I am confused. First, you claimed that Tan Xinfu taught you how to play badminton (post # 7258 Lee Chong Wei thread). Then there came a list of rather rudimentary "methodologies" supposed from Tang, which if true would rather make Tang look very pedestrian. After some less than complimentary feedback on the "methodologies", we were then told that Tang did not teach you how to play but only how to coach.
    Now, which is which?
    Also a 30+ years old encounter somehow becomes a bit of a far-fetched story, because its relevance is questionable even if you have a certificate to show the great Tang taught you how to play, how to string and repair rackets and how to coach.

    Also, the "methodologies" you came up with, supposedly from Tang, is a not strictly methodologies but a 'Chap Suew'. You are mixing up methodologies with techniques. I would not think Tang would make such elementary errors.

  15. #100
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viver View Post
    That's why Tang Xinfu stated that it was possible for him to become a top player after returning to China.
    I am not able to make the connection between your statement and the reference
    http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Pa...0807.1.13.aspx
    Could you clarify?

  16. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    For all BCers and other lurkers out there who are interested in TXH's origins and the times that moulded him into what he later became; and for a fascinating and in-depth understanding of the genesis of Indonesian badminton, and the unfortunate events (the "troubles" or "disturbances") that led to the eventual slide in that country's fortunes, please follow this link. It is a paper written by Colin Brown of the Curtin University of Technology, Australia, and is titled:

    SPORT, POLITICS AND ETHNICITY: PLAYING BADMINTON FOR INDONESIA

    http://coombs.anu.edu.au/SpecialProj...C-ASAA2004.pdf


    This paper makes absolutely compulsive reading. I would suggest the link also be posted on the Indinesia Badminton thread. The paper also goes on to tell how the issues were finally cleared up post-June 2002.

    Some excerpts:

    One commentator wrote recently in The Jakarta Post that internationally, Indonesia was known for few things – plantation crops, corruption and badminton.
    ...
    Yet while there are many studies of plantation crops, and many more of corruption, badminton is virtually invisible in scholarly writing on Indonesia.

    ...
    I suspect that the key to the introduction of badminton to the archipelago lies in Medan, and the cross-Straits connections it had with Pinang and to a lesser extent Singapore. ...Ethnic Chinese clubs, by the early 1930s, seem to have been inviting badminton players from Pinang to Medan, initially to play exhibition games, but subsequently for competitions. Yan Eng Hoo, for instance, is cited as a particularly influential Pinang player who frequently visited Indonesia.

    ...
    In the 1930s badminton also spread to various regions including Bandung (West Java), Semarang, Solo (Central Java), and Surabaya (East Java). In 1934, Central Java held a championship tournament. This speedy development of badminton was primarily the result of visits undertaken by a player from Jakarta, Oei Kok Tjoan.

    ...The game was apparently popularised through being played as entertainment at night markets (pasar malam
    ) in major towns and cities: by the late 1930s, as one observer puts it: ‘there was no pasar malam [in Java] which did not stage a badminton tournament’.

    ...
    Until 1961 the headquarters of PBSI Jakarta was in the Tjandra Naja building, at Jl Gajah Mada no. 188 – which was also the headquarters of the Sin Ming Hui, the ethnic Chinese social and educational association.

    ...
    But perhaps the biggest test is when players leave Indonesia to play for other nations. Indonesia has gone through two periods when such movements have taken place in sufficient numbers as to have a potentially significant impact on the country’s international standing.
    The first period was in the 1960s, when a number of its best ethnic Chinese players and coaches left for China, at a time when many other ethnic Chinese were making this same journey.

    As one Indonesian commentator put it, discussing China’s rise to prominence in world badminton and thus to threaten Indonesia’s position:

    ...Three leading Chinese players and coaches, members of the International Badminton Federation’s Hall of Fame, who do seem to fall into this category are Tang Xianhu (known when in Indonesia as Tong Sin Fu and Thing Hian Houw), Chen Yu Niang (Tan Giok Nio) and Hou Jiachang (Houw Ka Tjong – the ‘Hou Chia Chang’ mentioned above?). Another was Liang Chiu Sia (Leung Ca Hua), who went to China in 1966, following the rise to power of General Suharto. As was often the case, some of Liang’s siblings went with her to China, and other stayed in Indonesia. Amongst those who stayed was her younger brother Tjun Tjun, who was to win the All England men’s doubles titles for Indonesia six times between 1974 and 1980. Liang eventually left China for Hong Kong, and finally returned to Indonesia, re-acquiring Indonesian citizenship in 1986 – ‘thanks to the combined efforts of the government, in this case the offices of the Ministers for Sport and Employment, the Indonesian National Olympic Committee and the Indonesian Badminton Federation.’


    …the seeds (of China’s rise) came from Indonesia in the 1950s, when Hou Chia Chang and Tang Hzien Hou returned to their Ancestral Homeland from Solo. Tang, who we knew as Tong Si Fu, did come back to Indonesia but because his application for citizenship was not dealt with properly, he went back (to China). And the successor to this pair of pioneers developed and perfected their (training) methods.
    Made for a good read. Good job finding it.

  17. #102
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madbad View Post
    Made for a good read. Good job finding it.
    Thank you, kind sir!

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