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  1. #69
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    Remember, P. Gopichand from India, once an AE MS champs too. what do he achieve after that??
    Don't always bash them, young players needs encouragement..

  2. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by samuel882 View Post
    Remember, P. Gopichand from India, once an AE MS champs too. what do he achieve after that??
    Don't always bash them, young players needs encouragement..
    Remember Hafiz, he won that All England too. He is still young, so according to you shall we continue to 'encourage' and molly cuddle this guy?

  3. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    It could also mean one season wonder i.e. hot for a year, not just ONE tournament.
    KKK/TBH is not even "hot" for half-a-year.

  4. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    KKK/TBH is not even "hot" for half-a-year.
    But according to samuel882, they are still young and therefore we must treat them with care and love. They need love and pampering.

  5. #73
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    I've just learn an English Word today ..

    Encourage = love & pampering

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    Tell you what, I would like to be proven wrong here. If that 'glamour boy aka prima donna', KKK & TBH take that Olympic gold in Beijing next year, I buy a nice Italian dinner for you and 10 others here. Choice of Italian restaurant you decide.

    Honestly, I would really really really love to be proven wrong here. I really honestly doubt KKK/TBH are Olympic gold type of quality. Disco, Gucci, Glamour quality, yes. But Olympic gold, no.
    I do not want to take credit for my buddy Cooler's comment that after KKK/TBH won so many tourneys since they paired up, other countries began to study their play and develop strategies to beat them. And when they start to lose confidence and play badly, the situation worsen and they start to lose.
    If this duo will not win another tourney from now on, at least they have done MAS proud to win the AE after 25 years and the Asian Games. But because they are still young and have talents, hopefully (a big hope that is) Rexy can correct and steer them straight.
    As for the Italian dinner, that would be nice, but it would costs me more for airfare, accomodation and time away from my work...Pemuda, we MAS citizen and ex-citizen would like to see our players win the elusive gold in OLY or WC, at least in my lifetime. Why not we do it this way...if this duo win OLY gold, you can post the Italian dinner on BC for all MAS fans to salivate...hehehe!!

  7. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    Remember Hafiz, he won that All England too. He is still young, so according to you shall we continue to 'encourage' and molly cuddle this guy?
    HH if he plays for CHN is history to make way for new players...not that HH lacks talent, he is talented but his seemingly lack of conditioning makes me question why bother sending him to participate at all...look at LD who technically is not as gifted as TH or LCW, but he more than make up the deficiency with his incredible fitness, reflex, speed and power game, that is why LD won so many tourneys and ranked #1 for so long. In MAS, I do not know how you can replace HH given he is the 2nd or 3rd best player in MAS MS lineup now, to remove him and let a new prospect takes his place (which make sense), that would be political suicide for the head coach and would not fly in MAS, which I think you know what I mean, especially if the new prospect tank and got knock-out early.

  8. #76
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Hmm, i've an idea..

    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    Tell you what, I would like to be proven wrong here. If that 'glamour boy aka prima donna', KKK & TBH take that Olympic gold in Beijing next year, I buy a nice Italian dinner for you and 10 others here. Choice of Italian restaurant you decide.

    Honestly, I would really really really love to be proven wrong here. I really honestly doubt KKK/TBH are Olympic gold type of quality. Disco, Gucci, Glamour quality, yes. But Olympic gold, no.
    ..Pemuda, how abt this. If KKK & TBH do win the OG next yr, instead of treating the M'sian BCers to a nice Italian dinner, how abt if you take out KKK & TBH on a shopping spree in Beijing..I think that sounds better

  9. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    This is no negative comments. KKK/TBH just dont cut it, I am sorry. They are flash in the pan.

    Pemuda, you've said this many times over in forum. Just out of curiousity, do you think Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan are also flash in the pan?

    Of course Kido/Setiawan are more experienced. Prior to winning the World Champs in Aug, for almost one year they did not win any major titles. Last win was in Sept/Oct 2006 at HOng Kong and China Open. That's many months of drought.
    Another point I would like to ask the Indonesians : Were Kido/Setiawan bashed, critized, written off, etc in that one year ? Just wanna know what's the culture like there as comparision.

    I can't read Chinese, so for those who know, were there much criticism in China for Fu/Cai after they lost in early rounds of World CHamp and Japan Open ? They looked unbeatenable in May, June, July this year.

    Whether of not KKK/TBH can win the gold, remains to be seen.
    The difference would be Rexy is not the type of coach who just stand by and let them be a flash in the pan. That means not pampered but pushing them hard.
    If KKK/TBH were not mentally strong enough, they would not have won AG (and still be the reigning champion till 2010) and AE. Even if they were new pair, still need determination to win- something we have not seen in Malaysia for some time.

  10. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..Pemuda, how abt this. If KKK & TBH do win the OG next yr, ...
    If KKK/TBH win OG next yr, I bet Pemuda will start a new thread claiming KKK/TBH still not good enough and will never be able to defend their title in the coming OG. They are just never good enough for his standard, right Pemuda?

  11. #79
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Off topic-My feeling is..

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    Another point I would like to ask the Indonesians : Were Kido/Setiawan bashed, critized, written off, etc in that one year ? Just wanna know what's the culture like there as comparision.
    (i've posted something similar to this in another thread)..
    ..there were definitely some optimisms after their success in 2006. And i know there were several BC members who were riding on their bandwagon during those times. But after those successes, only a few stayed true to their loyalty (namely badMania). I, myself, only kept a "cautiously optimistic" approach, knowing well that they were still young and their quick rise/success during that period will be hard to maintain (whilst also reminded of what happened to Luluk & Alvent). And true enough, they had a pretty rough struggle from there on til this past WC (a span of abt 9 months)....While in comparison, KKK & TBH, on the other hand, are still yearning for their first "major" title in abt 7 months (last major win was in March '07, Swiss Open)..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 10-03-2007 at 03:05 AM.

  12. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    (i've posted something similar to this in another thread)..
    I, myself, only kept a "cautiously optimistic" approach, knowing well that they were still young and their quick rise/success during that period will be hard to maintain (whilst also reminded of what happened to Luluk & Alvent). And true enough, they had a pretty rough struggle from there on til this past WC (a span of abt 9 months)....While in comparison, KKK & TBH, on the other hand, are still yearning for their first "major" title in abt 7 months (last major win was in March '07, Swiss Open)..
    Thanks ctjcad.
    I wasn't being clear in my post - I meant the public in general, media, government, PBSI. KKK/TBH are pressured by NSC (they were called up by the NSC director), media, public, told repeatedly badminton is best hope for Olympic gold - even I am sick of reading it. LCW said in a CCTV interview that it's 'a lot of pressure' for him in 2004 Olympic, 2006, 2007 World Champs. Hence reinforces the view that Malaysians are mentally weak to win big ones.

    I'm not comparing it to the Korean pair- Jung/LYD, the WC runner-up, cos I don't know how crazy the Koreans are about badminton. They won a few titles in 2006, in 2007 they won Korean Open and Thailand Open(or was it Lee/Hwang?). They did have Olympic Champs and World Champs that've retired by now. So, what was the response whenever they lost, they are still young? Did the Koreans critize them?

  13. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    (i've posted something similar to this in another thread)..
    ..there were definitely some optimisms after their success in 2006. And i know there were several BC members who were riding on their bandwagon during those times. But after those successes, only a few stayed true to their loyalty (namely badMania). I, myself, only kept a "cautiously optimistic" approach, knowing well that they were still young and their quick rise/success during that period will be hard to maintain (whilst also reminded of what happened to Luluk & Alvent). And true enough, they had a pretty rough struggle from there on til this past WC (a span of abt 9 months)....While in comparison, KKK & TBH, on the other hand, are still yearning for their first "major" title in abt 7 months (last major win was in March '07, Swiss Open)..
    Remember that Kido/Hendra were catching attention as early as after they beat Candra/Sigit in the Indonesia Open Final 2005 (after they won the Asian Championships earlier). From there onwards, they continued their good progress to win the SEA Games Individual Gold (beating Chan Chong Ming/Koo Kien Keat in the SF and Luluk Hadiyanto/Alvent Yulianto in the Final).

    Indeed, as Chris mentioned, the first half of 2006 was a wretched time for Kido/Hendra as they struggled to maintain their consistency. Nevertheless, things began to improve in the second half as they won the HKG Open, China Open and Invitational World Cup. They also beat Fu/Cai TWICE during that period. If not for that loss to Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong in the SF of the Asian Games Individual Event, I believe they will take the gold Another painful defeat was to Anthony Clark/Robert Blair in the WC QF after such a dominance in the first set.

    Subsequent losses to Koo/Tan in the SS events (twice) affected their morale and their best showings were only semi-finals in the Malaysia and Singapore SS (losing to Choong Tan Fook/Lee Wan Wah). They also lost to Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae (Korea SS) and Han Sang Hoon/Cho Gun Woo (All England).

    However, similar last year, things improved after June They appeared in their first Final since the Invitational World Cup 2006, losing to Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun (albeit with some dubious line calls). Since then, it was up and up, winning the World Championships and Chinese Taipei Open. Of course, they also lost surprisingly in the SF of Japan Open SS to Luluk/Alvent

    I think most if not ALL top MD pairs will have similar experience. Fu/Cai also "lost their touch" from their victory at the WC 2006 (Sep 2006) until the Singapore Open 2007 (May 2007) when they won another big title. Or when they first started: winning the Swiss Open (March 2004) and only a year later they won another title in German Open (March 2005).
    Last edited by badMania; 10-03-2007 at 03:42 AM.

  14. #82
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    Default Off topic-Hmm, i would say..

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    Thanks ctjcad.
    I wasn't being clear in my post - I meant the public in general, media, government, PBSI. KKK/TBH are pressured by NSC (they were called up by the NSC director), media, public, told repeatedly badminton is best hope for Olympic gold - even I am sick of reading it. LCW said in a CCTV interview that it's 'a lot of pressure' for him in 2004 Olympic, 2006, 2007 World Champs. Hence reinforces the view that Malaysians are mentally weak to win big ones.
    ...(from what i've read online and in newspapers) Markis & Hendra weren't being solely put in a spotlight by the INA'n medias, public etc., during those times (as mentioned by badMania). Pressured? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps because they were still quite new and still building up their status as INA's #1 MD pair. Add to that, the media focused on Taufik more. But certainly, the whole INA squad was put in a spotlight, esp. after the debacle during this yr's INA Open, where INA failed to win any titles. It continued til the start of the WC, as talks of "Can any INA player(s) win a WC title? Can Taufik win a Gold for his daughter? Will the INA squad go home empty handed again, just like in last yr's WC?" reverberated throughout the media. Ironically, abt 3 months later after that debacle in INA Open, all those questions seemed to be forgotten, as INA was able to bag 2 WC titles.
    Last edited by ctjcad; 10-03-2007 at 03:48 AM.

  15. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post

    I think most if not ALL top MD pairs will have similar experience. Fu/Cai also "lost their touch" from their victory at the WC 2006 (Sep 2006) until the Singapore Open 2007 (May 2007) when they won another big title. Or when they first started: winning the Swiss Open (March 2004) and only a year later they won another title in German Open (March 2005).

    Thanks for the history breakdown. I'm thinking along those lines too.
    Fu/Cai lost more than win in their early years. I noticed Luluk/Alvent haven't won a title since Indonesia Open in Dec 2004. They've made a comeback in recent months just to lose to teammates(Japan Open).

    The Msia veteran pair CTF/LWW didn't fare very much better either, winning titles once a year, the latest being ABC in April 2007.


    In 2006, no MD pair won for more than 2 times in a row. In 2007, interestingly, one pair/country will dominate for a few months.

    1st quarter was Msia thru KKK/TBH. Korea sneaked in to win one title, Korean Open, LYD/Jung.
    2nd quarter was China thru Fu/Cai. It split over a little to July, China Masters but that was as you said dubious line calls. Korea again sneaked in to win the Thailand Open
    3rd quarter - Indonesia thru Tony/Candra, Kido/Setiawan.

    4th quarter- who knows? makes very interesting watch.

    Point is, it's up and down, who knows who will take the OG gold till Aug 2008. KKK/TBH will need to work hard to improve of course, and as a Malaysian I support our players.

  16. #84
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    There are always ups & down in badminton,especially with so much competitive nowadays in all the departments(MS,MD,WS,etc...).We can't always bashing the players when they go downhill.Instead we must give encouragement,be patient... There are no "FOREVER WINNER" in this world.Take a look at LD,FHF/CY,XXF&ZN,they also not done very well in last few tourneys.Do you think their fans "desperately" bashing them just because they lost in few tournament?I'm 100% sure their fans still have faith in them to deliver in OG'08. For KKK-TBH,we cannot rule out their ability to deliver gold in the OG'08,provided they train hard,improve on their mentality&attitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadFever View Post
    If KKK/TBH win OG next yr, I bet Pemuda will start a new thread claiming KKK/TBH still not good enough and will never be able to defend their title in the coming OG. They are just never good enough for his standard, right Pemuda?
    spot on, bad fever ?

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